Concerned over failing electronic locks or EMP disabling them? How bout extra keypad?

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karz10

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So, I was wondering, I don't know a lot about EMPs for example, but I think that if one ever went off that anything electronic in the area that was running at the time would no longer work, whether it was AC powered or battery powered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's the case, wouldn't some things electronic that were not connected to a power source of any kind still work if then connected to a power source AFTER the EMP was gone, so to speak (unless of course another one was set off)?

I was thinking that if you had something, like a gun safe or other lock box for example, that used an electronic keypad lock, and it became inoperable for whatever reason, including fire or EMP, if you had a spare keypad for that device that you could then put a fresh battery in and plug into the device that you may still be able to gain access to that device on short notice.

Any reason that would not be the case?

I know the EMP part of this is a little "tin foil hat" kind of thinking, but as sophisticated as our society is, it would certainly be an option some organizations or entities might want to use against us, either as a primary goal, or part of another mission, to the point main stream politicians and news agencies discuss the possibility. But even EMP aside, a spare keypad doesn't seem completely insane, seems like a fairly reasonable level of preparedness for a potential point of failure.

I just know a lot of people avoid electronic locks citing reasons like this, so I was wondering if a spare keypad would lessen this concern. Not for quick access SD stuff, but other things you may want to get to if something goes wrong and you need your documents or extra guns to move them or something, after a failure of the keypad.

Any thoughts?

Karz
 
I'd be much more worried about dead batteries than an EMP.

My safe with an electronic keypad also has a regular backup key. To me that's the best solution.
 
your Gunsafe should qualify as a Faraday cage(*) and is therefor protected from a normal EMP pulse.

* -> a gunsafe is not a perfect Faraday cage, if the voltage is high enough it will probably let some in and damage the locking mechanism, but to reach that kind of voltage you will need a Nuke and if a Nuke goes off, you will have other problems.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's the case, wouldn't some things electronic that were not connected to a power source of any kind still work if then connected to a power source AFTER the EMP was gone, so to speak (unless of course another one was set off)?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that's not how an EMP works. I think the way an EMP (Nuclear bomb) disables electronic devices like an integrated chip is large amounts of electrons saturating the gates of the transistors and thereby driving it past threshold. If the charges are large enough it could cause arcs (like static discharge) on the traces as well. This is similar to dunking the whole circuit in water. Small electronic devices are prone to being disabled by this method. Not something like a flashlight. I don't quite see how batteries will be disabled either.
 
Everything I have with electronic locks has some kind of key operated manual backup.

Is that not common? I figured it was simply because the couple of things I have came that way, but I don't know.
 
Well, I don't know how it works really, that's why I asked the question. I just remember reading how many people worried about electronic keypad operated locks because of EMPs or other electronic failures, so I thought a spare keypad would solve that concern.

I talked to someone at one of the manufacturers of gun safes and you can buy a replacement keypad for like $35, seemed like cheap insurance to me in case the keypad ever failed and you needed to get in, and there wasn't a key back up. Sure if things were normal and you could wait for your replacement keypad from the mfg after a problem presents itself, fine. But if there was even a temporary disruption of some sort in your region, and you needed to get stuff out of there in the mean time, I was thinking this would be something people may want to think about, if it was a concern for them, so I wanted to see what others thought about the scenario, especially the EMP thing since I admittedly don't understand the reach/limits of such a thing, but is talked about as a concern by some.

Thanks.
 
I think quatin is right, not being connected to a source of electricity would most likely not protect your electronic gadgets. I wouldn't buy any electric lock that didn't have a key backup.
 
An EMP induces a current in any circuit, and one produced by a nuke would short circuit virtually any electronic device, destroying it. It does not have to be connected to a power source to be destroyed -- the EMP is the power source.

I don't think batteries would be destroyed. They work on a chemical reaction inside the battery -- there's no circuitry to be overloaded.

Basically anything with a microprocessor in it (which is almost everything these days), that isn't shielded is going to be hosed.
 
IF anyone is that paranoid about EMPs frying the circuitry of your electronic safe, may I suggest that you just buy one with only a mechanical lock?
:rolleyes:
 
if your in range for a EMP, your already screwed, getting too your gun will not be that important.
 
or just use the dial combination...too many safes have the battery compartment inside the safe, if it has a manual backup key, what is the point of the combination anyway?:confused:
 
karz10,

May be as easy as rolling it up in some metal window screen. Put some padding over the keypad so it is spaced away from the screen. I think the best way would be to roll it up in a square of screen, say 3 full wraps, fold the ends over, tape it up, and then roll it up in another layer of screen, put some more non-conductive padding in between the screen layers. Hard to say how many layers it would take, but screen is pretty cheap.
 
that blog site really comes close to the real scoop on the EMP bursts from nuclear devices.

Dont forget that the circuitry in your new electronic gadgets is going to be a lot more delicate then the ignition starters that got fried back in 1962.
The spare batteries wold be fine, but youd have to replace all electrical components of the safe. Just electronics.

however one shouldnt be worried about the gunsafe electronics failing. One should be concerned about the push to put electronic safeties onto weapons that the SWAT team can disable a 1/4 mile away with a 300 dollar radio jammer.
 
Have you ever seen an electronic combo on a gun safe that didn't have a manual backup?
 
Have you ever seen an electronic combo on a gun safe that didn't have a manual backup?
Click to expand...

actually I have... same safe had the battery access inside the safe...:confused:

I understand the ease with which one can use an electric key pad, but I don't see an advantage otherwise and worrying about failure of the electical component just seems to nullify any advantage that one would get from key pad IMO.

I guess some would say there is also a security advantage :confused:, but that is contradicted by any present manual back up.

this is why I opted, after much deliberation, to go with a simply dial combination 3 bolt safe.
 
The safe I use has three other ways in beside the keypad.

Walmart sold safes with just the keypad.:barf:

Manual Key, Spare battery set with plug to ignite the keypad computer, extra keypad set.

EMP's theoratically can fry the USA when detonated at the edge of space above the USA. But wont hurt the older cars that rely on point ignition systems.... *crosses fingers...

And wont hurt shotguns. =) And finally there is sooo much chikin wire strung all about these parts I think there is a electrical cage of sorts protecting our area.
 
If the keypad on the safe gets burned out, how are you going to activate it to get inside to get access to disassemble the keypad so that you can install the new one???? You shouldn't be able to remove the keypad from the outside otherwise it would be the easiest thing to break in to.
 
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