I need help with a (Semi) anti

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SteelyNirvana

SteelyNirvana

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Okay, here's my situation. I have a co-worker that I have to work with pretty much all the time. The subject of firearms seems to come up daily and frankly, I don't know how to get this guy to shut up. Now, I do have trouble arguing my point sometimes, It's just a social flaw that I've always had. Or maybe it's I don't know what exactly to say. Now, I'm the type of gun owner who is a always stick by your guns type, I don't believe that we should have any type of new laws or anything because I feel like most folks do, give and inch and they'll take a foot. I am a member and a firm beleiver in the NRA and try to do what I can to help our cause, such as voting for pro-gun politicians.

Now here's the trouble I'm having with the guy. We were talking about the ABC thing and he says that there should be more legislation to stop folks with mental problems from getting firearms and the need to outlaw FTF transactions. The only response I can give the guy is FTF transactions are legal and medical records should be kept private. He says well, what if a convicted felon buys a gun from you, doesn't state that he is one and uses it in a crime? again all I know what to say is, well, if you follow the law, its on the guy who purchased it because you had no way of knowing he was a criminal. He then ask me how I would feel if a gun I sold to someone was used in a crime, well, the only thing I can say to that is I give my sympathys to any victims, but if I didn't know he was a criminal and I followed the law, I don't know how I would feel. I didn't watch the ABC thing, I've heard all about it here at Thehighroad, he watched it and said that he saw no bias in it. He owns guns himself but claims I'm a "die-hard gun nut" He likes to state over and over that they should do more screaning on people and the only thing I can say is if a person really wants a gun there going to get one, one way or another. I keep telling him if they keep pushing the CCW issue that could do alot to stop these shootings and he says that it may save some lives but in a tragedy like VT, some people are still bound to get hurt, and that CCW isn't they way to go about it.

I'm at my wits end with this dude, I really don't know what to say to the things he says. I've been involved with the RKBA issue for only a few years now, so I'm still a novice although I've been around firearms all my life just about. Other than finding a new job, how can I get him off my back?

Thanks in advance
 
Yeah, criminal and crime came way before the gun. If the gun magically disappeared, then criminals will find another way to break the law. Guns don't equal crime, evil people equal crime.
 
Big club good, make idiot quiet.

LONG before guns showed up.

Maybe a change in offices or sitaution is in order.

It's rough when a relentless force meets a entrenched resistance.

I think cheery greeting with sunshine, GOOD Morning! and right to work without any guntalk for the day will help things dontcha?

You probably will hear the man sprout guns. And have to make non committal grunts or sounds and endure it for a week or three.

He will move on to another audience.

Either that or you might just snap and go postal on him.

If you feel that close to losing it, perhaps a change is in order.
 
Just politely explain that if anything ever happens that you will save his life with your gun. Then tell him to look at the places where guns aren't allowed, and compare the crime rates of places where they are allowed.
Then tell him you don't feel comfortable talking about the subject anymore and that you would wish he would stop. And then if he doesn't go to HR and tell them he's harassing you
 
Ask him if he sold his car to someone who got drunk and killed someone, would he feel responsible? Drunks kill more people than guns do.
 
Start calling him by a girl name, and relentlessly taunt and make fun of him. Maybe he'll cry....... then you win.
 
Or start talking about how wonderful medical coursework is and the recession proof needs of the medical facilties and associated care areas, inlcuding those with large POWERED locks and hildas to keep the nuts in one place.

That man has the right mind set to man a night watch desk near such a set of powerlock doors in a controlled part of the hospital.

Maybe if he talks so much about screening, ask him if a screener traumatized him with basic tests as a child prior to kindergarden?
 
Ask him if it's ok to keep people with mental problems from voting.
Click to expand...

I think I see the point your trying to make, Blackbeard. "Mental problem" is just a general description and if they ever do allow medical records into the NICS checks it could prevent alot of people who are harmless and have no criminal motive from owning a gun. There's also the issue of someone who could have had minor problems decades ago who is fine now, from owning a firearm. It would put a flag on anyone who has been in a mental institution and would have no way of picking out the violent folks from the non-violent ones.

Am I grasping the concept correct?, if not please educate me some. I think this guy and myself have had this discussion before about how it would group everyone into a one big category and would be unfair alot to folks. He response I believe was something like "Well, you never know when someones gonna snap" and I argued back with "What about folks who have shown no sign of trouble all there lives and suddenly went berzerk, how would you stop that?" You and I know that there's no way you can prevent something like that but his answer is always, the goverment should do more.

I honestly cannot believe this guy owns guns and has these kind of opinions:banghead:
 
People snap when they have had enough. They just execute in different ways.

A few freeze. Those are taken away very gently never ever having to worry about anything ever again.
 
Repeat this phrase, "People are willing to die to keep their firearms. Are you willing to die to take them?"

Then punch him in his sissy face for me. :D

(don't do that)
 
Some less joking suggestions.

1) Why shouldn't there be more laws? - Because laws are there to be enforced AFTER they are broken. Look at any crime comitted with a firearm, and you will find tons of gun laws that have been broken? What would one more do without heading down the slippery slope of trying to enforce laws before they are broken. Do you really want a government that runs around enforcing the law against people who haven't done anything yet?

I'd then follow it up with a joking suggestion that bob seems kind of stressed and has access to weapons. PErhaps HR should be warned that he is a possible danger.

Might get the point across.

2) What about people with a history of mental illness? - Well it seems here the problem is really that we have a law that is very hard to enforce. Judges who cut the mentally ill too much slack, and family that try to buffer a loved one (who really is a problem and likely threat to the public) from punishment because they are "sick" is a big part of the problem. Another part of the problem is the cost of mental health care, and that it is pretty much first on the chopping block for state governments. The problem here is getting those who have real and threatening mental problems flagged without giving some government beuraucrat the ability to run around flagging people at his whim and abusing the system and oppressing the citizenry. It's a mess of a problem, and if anyone really seriously thinks it will be fixed by another gun law, they are well and truly idiots.

3) How would you feel if the gun you sold to someone was used in a crime? - My first aswer is "sell guns" what is this you speak of? TRade perhaps, but SELL? My second answer would be "bad". Just like if I had sold a kid their first car and they got themselves or someone else killed with it. Or I lent my neighbor my gas can from the shed and he set his cheating wife on fire using it. They are sad, unpleasant situations, and they would generate an emotional response. However, I would not feel that it was my fault. There's only so much you cna know about the other guy before you have to be telepathic. That's pretty much why more laws won't work. Give the other guy the freedom to do what he wants, and that will be bad sometime.
 
Guns don't equal crime, evil people equal crime.
Click to expand...

Not really. Good and evil do not directly coincide with law and crime. There's plenty of very good people who break laws regularly, and plenty of truly evil people who follow the law to the letter. Remember, law is flawed as it is a system created by man.
 
I'm kind of in between on the mental health record thing. If there was a way to ensure that mental health would only inhibit a purchase if the person was deemed a threat to himself or others, and there was a way this could be removed and changed later, I'd be for mental health checking as part of buying a gun.
 
Ask him flat-out if he'd like to do a year in prison.

He'll say no, of course.

If he doesn't offer a reason, ask him why.

If he mentions the violence within the prison as opposed to the loss of liberty, he musn't give a damn about individual liberty and likely cannot be helped.

If he mentions liberty, but also the violence, then ask him why our prisons aren't the safest places in the country, since they are the institutions where government officials are there doing all they can to control everything the inmates do, and regulate everything they have access to.

When cells are being tossed and searched to find sharpened toothbrushes, that's way beyond "reasonable gun control measures". However, inmates are still attacked and/or killed with regularity.
 
Here is some good info for both of you to read, print it for him, if he reads it he'll have a tough time defending his "anti" position

http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...5-0-screen.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, gimlet but I already know what he's going to say before I present it to him " Anyone can make something to get the point across, just because they say it, doesn't make it true" or something to that effect.

Now do you see what kind of person I am dealing with? , To ask another question, what kind of person am I dealing with?? I know whats right and wrong, I know fact from fiction. But how do I convince someone who doesn't want to be told otherwise :confused:

P.S. The link to the .pdf said that the file was damaged, but I was able to find it at gunfacts.info .
 
Go to my youtube page in my sig line. You'll find plenty of ammo for your anti friend. Better yet, direct HIM to the channel. The most fact filled videos are "Don't Ban All Guns!!!" and "Gun Control & Gun Crime."
 
If you don't want to talk about the topic with him, politely tell him as such. That said...

I don't believe any of the firearms used in the massacres recently were bought via FTF transactions. I could be wrong (and invite him to prove otherwise) but it gives good reasoning that any such legislation would completely miss the point.

Furthermore on legislation restricting firearms purchase, laws cannot always prevent action. I'd say that laws exist as a deterrent. And sometimes, not as very effective one. Although folks with 'mental problems' are beyond deterrence, this shouldn't automatically mean we should force ourselves to see laws as a (necessary) preventive tool. And quite frankly, if a person isn't deterred with life w/o parole (or death), I wouldn't rely too heavily on 'anything' preventing them from their actions. At this point it's about (self) preparation and preservation.

Moving on...when he says 'what if', you say 'hypothetical'. It's not too difficult to imagine the 'worse case scenario'. But sound legislation should be based on objective reasoning and not subjective opinions/reactions based on the 'hypothetical'. In discussing the recent tragedies, we must not overlook that safe and responsible firearm ownership (transactions) is at an all time high. Remember, correlation is not causation.

Lastly, invite him to the range sometime. Agree to disagree, but this would remind him that firearm ownership can be practiced responsibly and safely, as is done so by the vast majority.

Good luck.
 
Living in the land of ANTI Gun Nazi's i have some practise in this and i've pulled up a web page to assist me

ask your friend if he has a car

ask him what he had to do to get that car

ask him if he had a accident in the car would he be banned from buying a car again

explain to him that there are according to AIG ( a US insurance company)
13,000 assaults with motor vehicles every month in the USA

resulting in 300 plus deaths per month on average

thats the deliberate use of a car to cause injury or damage or death

none of these people have to explain to press what they did they took a tool ( a car) and used it in a manner thats illegal and not normal

same with these shootings that happen

no matter what happens in life you cant be run by lunatics otherwise you would never have a congress ( lets face it, politicians cannot be classed as stable individuals) oe similar

ask him because the taliban flew planes into buildings should the USA ban planes ( they might be used again as weapons )

maybe cars should be banned ( when he reacts and says how am i supposed to get to work without a car explain its to make the place safer as cars kill more people every month than guns do in a year)

theres lots of ways to counter this lunacy tools dont kill folks, other folks do...

take the guy shooting and let him meet some other gun folks and let him learn that gun folks are like everyone else

teach the guy that without guns we are slaves to be dominated

or have you folks forgot what happened here ( Australia ) when the rebelion was killed off, we became property, you folks got freedom, they could not kill of your rebellion......

thats what folks with weapons bought you, a free nation who dont have to take squat of those you dont agree with ( UN, your new prez.. etc..) where as here , we get told to like it or shut up... or be locked up

good luck

jack
 
Hey Jack404, are people like you a rare breed in your country (folks who understand) or is it just your fascist government who wants to impose its will on the masses?
 
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