Why are gun stores/dealers the only business to charge credit card fees

Hey DHJenkins, Maybe you should read the first post of a thread before you start complaining. I just asked asked a question and by the way I do have a sense of entitlement I'm very upset alot of gun dealers do not give Military Discounts I go to Iraq and back and I can get a cheeseburger at carls jr 20 percent off but I will be lucky if i can negotiate 20 bucks of a 900 dollar gun purchase. In my opinion 90 percent of Gun Dealers are money grubbing jerks. Thats Right 9 outta 10!

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Dude, I can't believe that you expect a discount because you are in the military. (I am not bashing- I was in Gulf War I) I work with people who feel like that as well, "I am a cop/paramedic/firefighter (pick one) and I put my life on the line. I can't believe so and so doesn't give us a discount." Completely forgetting that the business in question and its employees ALREADY paid taxes so you could get your salary.

because gun owners, like bicyclists, are misers.

Of course you pay taxes, but that doesn't mean that you have the right to expect something simply because of your job. ( I work for the government as well, AND I am a veteran, so I am not slamming anyone for their service.) If you get a discount, be grateful, and if not, don't demand one. You call 90% of gun dealers money grabbing jerks because they won't take $20 out of their pocket and give it to you, in the form of a discount.

Yet the vast majority of active duty military time is spent not in Iraq, but on an installation somewhere playing cards. I am a firefighter and a paramedic, and I hear my coworkers spout off with that "I risk my life" stuff all the time. It is BS. Pizza delivery drivers, 7-11 night clerks, and Alaska Crab fishermen all have more dangerous jobs than mine or yours. That does not mean that anyone who doesn't want to give me money or subsidize my purchases is greedy or a jerk.

So you and your buddy volunteered for the military, knowing that you would most likely go to war, and that somehow places a requirement on gun dealers to give you money?

not legal

I report them to card company and get the surcharge refunded it is against the law to charge extra for credit card sales.

Show me the LAW. There is a difference between laws and private company policies.

OP, you have no entitlement to anything in life. If you were to come into my place and toss around your military service fishing for a discount, you'd be told to leave. I don't give discounts I don't care who you are or what you did. I have plenty of military veterans that gladly give me business and never beg for a discount. They think it is a disgrace to the uniform.

Many Gun manufacturers offer LE/Military discounts and it burns my but that gun stores do not honor them.

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I hate to be picky here, but to get the LE discount from most manufactures it requires a department letterhead stating that the firearms or accessories are for duty use. Considering the DoD's position on personally owned weapons and accessories, chances are you ain't buying it for duty use.

With some companies, the LE discount with a letterhead is about what it cost retail, as the discount is based on the MSRP, which is quite a bit higher than what it cost NIB at a store. A few buddies on the job have told me that a few bucks aint worth the paperwork and aggravation.

They aren't the only ones. Even my apartment complex charges a fee if payments are made by card.

Credit cards are Not a convenience for the seller. They are a PITA and an added expense. The seller gets his money only when the processor decides to transfer funds, usually weekly, minus all the fees. They are however, a convenience for the buyer. What it boils down to is the sellers are paying out the wazoo for the buyers' convenience.

Lots of businesses are tacking on the fees they have to pay, not just gun stores. Times are tough all over.

I suspect the OP noticed it because that's where he spends most of his discretionary income.

The shop that works on my car is glad to hold a check for a week or two rather than have to take a hit from the credit card/bank folks. Seeing how the banks and cc companies have been screwing the public of late, I can't say I'm sympathetic to their situation. But my bailout check is in the mail, and I'm gonna stock up on ammo with part of my first billion.

Super Question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My dealer claims they charge so LITTLE over cost that they cannot absorb the 3.5 percent overage charged by CREDIT CARD COMPANIES! I say it all B. S. cliffy

That is how i feel as a consumer and to ask for a military discount is something I do at most establishments so what? It saves me money.

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So you are a cheapskate who tries to use your prior military service to guilt businesses into giving you a discount that you think you are entitled to? That is wrong on so many levels and you're lecturing me on ethics?

If you can't pay for purchases in cash why put them on plastic and pay the interest to the CC Co.?

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I use my debit card almost exclusively. As far as my end goes, it is the same as writing a check most places, and it is faster. I don't have any interest fees because it comes out of my checking account.

However, as it is also keyed as a VISA card, places that do the cash discount and/or credit card extra fee will still charge it.

Sig, you might try using cash so you aren't paying the high interest rates charged on credit card purchases (if you don't pay off your bill monthly).

Adjusting to cash is not that difficult for normal day to day stuff. Save the credit cards for paying for car repairs and larger purchases. Oh yes, do pay with a debit card when buying gasoline... too much trouble to pay with cash.

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There are some problems here. We have gone up in price on a lot of items in the past 20 years, but still the $20 bill is the standard. If I were to take out enough cash for a standard week's spending, I'd have a dang thick wallet...plus a weekly trip to the bank that I don't have now. Switching to $100s doesn't work as most places refuse bills that big.

'plastic' if used in a way to avoid interest charges (debit or credit but paid off monthly) has some real benifits to the consumer.

It sucks getting quoted a different price, but then I think we for the most part have figured out where and when this happens, and on the rare occasion I go in with the plan to purchase a gun, I'd get cash ahead of time.

Just so everyone not in the military knows we pay taxes too. I always hear that BS I pay your salary well i must pay my own salary then because all military have to pay taxes too. And BTW I feel the whole military discount should be for LE to of course i rearely see Military Discounts without LE but sometimes I see LE without Military.

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We do pay your salary. Now, I think a lot of the lower level enlisted men deserve to be paid MORE, but that doesn't change the basic fact that yes, we DO pay your salary

I respect most military and law enforcement folks for their service. I feel nobody owes you anything in this world. If someone offers a military or LE discount, that is fine with me. I feel sure they believe it gets them volume business, the number of discounts are so few that it is just good PR to post the sign, or they have no choice because they have their business in a military base town/city.

I was in a gun shop yesterday. They clearly post a cash price and a credit card price for all firearms. The cash price is for payment entirely in cash, not a cash down payment and the rest in a week using a credit card. Most gun shops list a cash and credit price in my area. Only the big box stores post one price.

Careful use of credit can be a very good thing. If nothing else, it consolidates your bills into a single payment or two at the end of the month. You can use it as a budgeting approach. Pay it off and there is no interest charge to the credit card user. If you carry a balance by choice, that is your choice. If you carry a balance because you have no choice, then I suggest you consider using debit cards or checks. Checks still work.

This thread is still kicking around?

I may as well add a little fuel to the fire.

Some gun stores surcharge credit cards due in large part to being run by hobbyists and enthusiasts rather than businessmen and simply don't understand the overhead associated with processing non-CC sales. Non-CC sales don't process themselves - the receipts don't post themselves, they don't schlep themselves to the bank and they don't cover the odd NSF pita costs (assuming checks are accepted).

Hobbyists and garage-based dealers are more likely to view their own time as "free" which mitigates the non-CC costs in their own minds and makes the CC associated costs stand out in stark contrast. Businessmen are less likely to employ such metrics.

Hobbyists and enthusiasts are (taking a chance with probability and stereotypes here) more likely to be moralists than businessmen and view the use of credit cards generally as less than ideal. In general, people with strong moral convictions would be well advised to avoid injecting them into their livelihood - a prohibitionist likely shouldn't run a liquor store, someone who has ruined his life through gambling should not run a casino and someone who has issues with indebtedness shouldn't let these feelings interfere with letting someone charge away the last of his credit line should he so choose. It's business - and knowing when to mind one's own.

Hobbyists and enthusiasts are more likely to play silly word games than a businessman. A surcharge is not a cash discount and never the twain shall meet. Truly honest people don't indulge in such attempted misdirection - they can still surcharge but they'll be upfront about it and the fact it likely is contrary to their agreement (I believe Discover may be an exception).

There's a Catch-22 in full force as well: if a business does sufficient volume, the CC cost percentage drops dramatically. A local (rather large) shop advised me it gets to where it's totally indistinguishable from non-CC overhead (this, of course, was in the context of not allowing me a cash discount - cash or credit same price). Charging surcharges will inevitably alienate a portion of what might have been one's customer base, making it less likely the volume will grow, meaning the CC charges can't be shopped around / reduced leading to the surcharge remaining in place.

Such gun dealers have no hope of ever being a Wild West, Sportsman's Supply, On-Target or Ray's to pick a few names at random - they will remain relatively small.

At least one exception, and probably more, exist. At least I think they do - it would be impolitic to name names but I'd bet the rent one retailer does sufficient volume that his CC costs are under 1.6% yet the surcharge remains - he still charges it because of the number of folks buffaloed into thinking it's actually added to his cost when it's more of a separate profit center - in the same manner some few online sellers play imaginative games with freight costs.

Free market disclaimer: I fully endorse a seller's right to do as he wishes and even to believe as he may regarding his CC associated costs. I just really, really doubt many of these beliefs would survive 4 years of formal education in retailing and distribution. But, since I remain undegreed in such disciplines, all the above is just another random internet opinion.

A lot of online retailers that don't charge the CC fees make up for it in shipping charges. A $30 shipping charge will cover at least $15 worth of costs processing the sale. The retailer will reuse boxes sent to them for stock orders. They are out the tape, ink, labels, paper and time. They get you either way, with a slightly higher price or a little extra on the shipping charge. I don't know of to many that don't charge a CC fee, have low prices, and charge low flat rate (a la CDNN's sytem) or actual shipping charges. If a business is charged something, that's an opportunity to profit off if it.

Good point about the freight.

If I were to be honest I would likely admit to putting profit into any area I felt I could - at least locally, selling firearms has every appearance of being a perfectly brutal business to derive one's living from.

Still, some don't overly inflate shipping and they seem to have quite a following. One AA seller has no CC fees and ships handguns for a flat rate of 15.00.

Being extraordinarily easy to deal with seems to get the firm more than the average amount of traffic based on my checking the "penny auctions". At least I can't remember ever getting a "smokin' bargain" as there has never been a shortage of competitive bidders, ... much to my chagrin.

Regrettably, I have no means of determining if low shipping and no fees would work for other firms or even if it's really working for him. Then there's the "chicken and egg" conundrum - does he draw his volume from "no fees / low shipping" or did his volume permit the fees to be absorbed into general overhead without trauma?

Another question I'd have is whether his substantial but variable used / penny auction volume serves to provide traffic for his NIB product - I'd guess the used market is much more amenable to "no fees / low shipping" but that's only a guess.

As a f'rinstance:
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9093266


I suppose the bottom line is that a dealer will operate on a "no fee" basis if his profit is greater without it than with it. Whether the CC cost is eaten, incorporated into general overhead, obfuscated or served with tea and jam is up to his accountant.

I tend to think that "no fee" CC policies "pay" rather than "cost" but that a certain minimum volume and market presence is needed to get there. The problem is that it would play merry hob if I had to prove it.

Akodo, we use a safe in the house as our own bank. We capitalize it monthly or weekly as required. Very small amounts of money. In essence we are our own bank now. Recently our old bank complained that they are not making a penny in any kind of fees from us anywhere.

Example they limit account transactions to 5 per month with bank card then charge for more than 5 uses of that card. We opened second similar account with it's own card now we can do 10 transactions a month, they reduce the limit to three per month, we open a third similar account with it;s own card to increase fee free transactions to 9 per month. and so on.

Somebody please make the merry go round stop.

We are also off the FDIC banks and into the NCUA Banks now.

It's stopped. All those crazy fee'ing on both sides. The store and the bank.

I dont mind shipping charges. I used to haul freight and sometimes sat because a shipper could not get a reciever to pay a certain asking rate for the haul.

There's other things that can be done especially in used guns. You can buy low enough to where your estimated selling price minus any CC fees will cover the fees paid if they pay with a CC. If you buy a gun that's worth $400 for $250, you have $150 to play with, minus 3% or so giving a $388 net sale. Ship a handgun flat rate box for $10 and confirmation is rounded to $11. You make $4 on the shipping which pays for tape, ink and label/paper. You now have a $392 net return from your $415 overall price, take out the $250 investment and you have $142 and you ate $8 in CC fees.

On used guns, it doesn't matter much for a CC buy or not. For me it depends on the price. For used guns I can usually eat $15 in CC fees before I start to factor it in my price. New guns it can be a different story. Usually my cutoff is around $600-650, then I start to factor in the fees.

You mentioned volume and that is a big issue. I am a one man company that primarily performs middle man transfers to CA dealers for others that don't want to ship there. I don't do much in gun sales at all. When I make ARs, I factor the CC in the price. For a $995 AR that I make, the fees are about $30. If I could sell 10 a week, I wouldn't factor the fees. Since I only sell a half dozen a month, it is a factor that I must consider.

Usually low volume dealers charge the fees and the high volume dealers don't. There is always the exception, like Bud's charges fees but they do a hell of a lot of sales.

I'm a low volume guy. I pay anywhere between 1.5-3% in fees depending on the account level (Gold, Platinum, Diamond) of the cardholder. The better the account and better the credit limit, the less I pay in "discount fee" (that term never made sense to me).

Regardless of what your teacher might have told you, life isn't fair, it never has been or will be, and everyone is not equal.

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I agree. Fair is a word used by liberals and children.

Credit card processors use a graph and historical sales info to determine fees. If a business has a large volume and large single item sales = lower %. Mom and Pops get the high fees. Low volume and small single item sales. Jewelry stores get the low fees. Large ticket items and monthly volume. No law exists that prohibit businesses from adding fees.
Go to your bank and get a cash advance. Then go buy the gun. Now if you buy a sling, a scope, ammo, a gun cover, then Mom and Pop is making profit.
When was the last time you were charged an "obvious" fee at Bass Pro Shops, or Gander Mountain, or Wally World?

Started life as a banker in 1963. Retired in 2007. Cashed out, parachuted out, consulted out, and loving it.