Sell My 9mm and Go All Out with .45. What do People Think?

Status
Not open for further replies.
4

4Freedom

member
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
674
I was having a real long convseration with a person today at gun store. Also, I have been researching and pondering the subject of 9mm vs 45. This guy is ex-military person and he was telling me stories about how his friends in Iraq have been having lot of problems since they switched from .45 to 9mm Beretta as their sidearm. He is saying, even though the 9mm will usually have the means to kill the enemy in combat, many have report it has not had enough stopping power to disable the attacker in a quick enough time to immobilze them or subdue the threat without risk of retaliatory attack.

I guess I have just had the feeling from many such discussions and from reading endless articles, debates, chats about 9mm vs .40 vs .45, that 9mm and even .40 really was a concept about increasing capacity by sacrificing quality. I know that I have the advantage of carrying 15 rounds in my Sig versus 10 rounds, and bullets cost .03 or so cheaper. However, the extra bullets will most likely be required, since the amount of energy transferred from the 9mm or .40 will be considerably less than from a .45.

Well, I know many 9mm and .40 owners will be criticizing me, perhaps calling me real ignorant or a traitor, but I am thinking I would be happy to get rid of my 9mm stuff and just go all out with .45. I find it kind of a pain to maintain two different caliber ammo stores and relying on a gun that would be less adequate for home defense, as well as

I am contemplating on selling my Sig P229 Elite as well as all my 9mm ammo and either getting a 1911 or an HK45 with it. I have a good store of 45 ammo, so I could perhaps score a bit extra and would have all I need.

I am thinking in time critical, high risk situations, where a BG needs to be disabled as quick as possible. These would be the more realistic scenarios I think I would ever have to use my handgun in an urban situation. I just think if I am having to use more than 10 rounds to subdue a threat with my 9mm , I am in deep crap anyway. The chances of me having to clear a room of guys with my 9mm are real slim. If I don't have enough time to reload my mags, I shouldn't be in the situation anyway.

Would a .44 perhaps be an even better option for such defense? I hear .44 suffers from overpentration, so I already feel the answer is no. Not sure if any lowered powered hollowpoints exist for urban defense. Also, not sure of the legality of using .44 for urban defense; i.e. how it would stand up in court of law when the BG family is suing me, etc.

What are people's thoughts about this? Please avoid any insults because I want to ditch the 9mm. I would appreciate to hear some constructive and intelligent comments about their opinions of the 9mm and its use as a defensive handgun. If you had to quickly take out an attacker who had a gun within 20 yards and three guns were sitting at a table, lets say you could only choose one; would you choose the 9mm, .45 or .44 to disable this guy before he hurts you? Lets pretend their are people around you, like little kids , and overpenetration will also be an issue.


TO disable a threat in home defense situation or in urban scenario, which order would you choose between the three calibers:
9mm, .44 and .45


P.S. Already have a S&W M&P 45, which I enjoy shooting.
 
There are the same complaints about the "stopping power" of .223, which is vastly more powerful than either the 9mm or .45 and uses a couple of additional wounding mechanisms. I sure as hell wasn't there personally to witness the failure of any caliber, but the logic of the complaints is based on a fallacy: "X didn't have the effect I thought it would, therefore Y (which I did not have at the same time for comparison) would have been better." Also remember that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

As for the "big three" semi-auto handgun rounds (9mm, .40, .45), I have never seen any evidence that there is a yawning gap in effectiveness between them. We can debate the differences between them ad nauseum precisely because no one has definitively shown that one is significantly "better" than the other.

Shoot what you are comfortable with.
 
I pondered this question more than a decade ago. Last week I finally got rid of my last .40. The 9s have been gone for years.

For reloading purposes the .45 is more expensive, but because I buy in larger quantities it has kind of evened out.

I really don't care about all the hearsay evidence about the Wonder 9s and the .40. I want proven. The .45 was proven in the Spanish American War. In that conflict .38s were not stopping assailants. The U.S. Army began sending out old SA .45s because Moro tribesmen were hacking Americans to death after being shot full of .38s.

That is why when the U.S. Army requested a new design in the early 20th Century it required they were in .45 caliber. Even non-fatal hits neutralized enemy combatants while fatal hits of .38 caliber did not.

Hence the decision to adopt JMB's 1911 pistol.

This was at least three generations ago. The lessons have been largely forgotten.

I have not forgotten. I carry the same caliber my grandfather carried into the trenches in Europe in WWI. I carry it because nothing else in a sidearm has been proven superior.

The arguments have been postulated that other calibers or cartridges are equal. Not only have they never been proven, they do not even try to assert superior.

We are two years short of the .45 ACP having 100 years of documentation. No one has proven any sidearm to be a superior man stopper in that time.

As for the caliber, when Sam Colt introduced his cap and ball pistol it was the .44 that was the standard and the most effective man stopper. It was proven in 50 years of Indian wars.

Who may testify as to the effectiveness of the .44/.45. Try the names Grant, Lee, Roosevelt, Patton and Jordan.

I do not own a 9mm Parabellum. I do not own a .40 S&W or a 10mm. I have two shelves lined with pistols chambered in .45 ACP. I'll never drink the 9mm Kool Aid again. Even the FBI figured out it will get you killed.

Do what you like. Base your decision on what you want. The .45 has 160 years of history as the standard to which all others are compared. I'll stick with the standard.
 
This guy is ex-military person and he was telling me stories about how his friends in Iraq have been having lot of problems since they switched from .45 to 9mm Beretta as their sidearm.
Click to expand...

How many rank & file military do you think have served long-enough to have been issued both 1911s and M9s? Very few and they'd be pretty old by now since the M9 was adopted in the 1980s. How many of these do you think were unlucky enough to get in a firefight with only a sidearm more than once -and survived despite using inferior 9mm?

Soldiers like to bitch & moan, they like to tell stories. Take what you hear with a grain of salt and choose your weapons platforms based on what you like to shoot.

I chose .45ACP because I like shooting M1911s. Sure, they make bigger entry holes, but the real reason is because I like shooting .45ACP through my M1911s.

The more "fun" I have with my pistols, the more I want to train with them.
 
Thank you, CWL. I agree with you 100%. I'm over here now, as a matter of fact. Back home though, I have a beretta 92fs and a few Kimbers, all of which I love to shoot. The 9 because it'll hold 16 and just feels wonderful, and the .45s because I can feel the power, and they too feel great. One shouldn't let others dictate what they should shoot based #s. If your confident in your 9 you won't have a problem hitting the X if the time comes.
 
Personally, if you had one shot to "get" the bad guy (something that wasn't a high powered rifle), I would take the .44. The .44 magnum...not something Lee and Patton were using. However, since you seem to have your mind set on just the three options, I would choose the .45 ACP...again something that WASN'T used 160 years ago. Get rid of the "9." I mean come on, what kind of gun fight do you expect? If 8 rounds of thumpers won't do it, then you're gonna lose...

I would also like to mention that I sincerely believe that "overpenetration" is a good thing...even in urban areas. Crazy right? Well, as far as I'm concerned, what are the odds of your bullet going through a wall and hitting someone center of mass?! Not good right? Forget it and shoot for heaven's sake! We aren't the cops...who cares what they use. If anything, we are allowed to be better equipped because we don't have all of the crazy boundaries that they do. Get something that will KILL the bastard (after all, he's trying to do the same for you). Use a 30-06...they are perfect medicine for crooks.
 
If you want stopping power get a 12 gauge slug gun with 1 1/2 oz magnum slugs. Or a standard 12 guage with 00 or 000 buck.

Keep your 9mm for fun and practice, range work etc. I love em both. Actually I love them all and want one of each. Every caliber, a gun for each, piles of ammo........

And you want just one??????
 
If you sell everything else and go all .45 you won't look back. Does that answer the question? .45ACP is the king daddy threat stopper in handgun combat against humans. Big, heavy, slow, and big. As Loop said it's the standard by which all others are judged.... and nothing has been proven superior. Virtually all that have been held up next to the .45 have been proven significantly inferior. One cartridge or another may shine really brightly in one particular circumstance but it's always a trade off for it being horribly ineffective at something else. A great example is .44 Magnum: It will stop a threat like nothing else, along with a kid 100 yards behind the BG or the lady sleeping two houses away. .45ACP is exactly the right compromise in almost everything. That's why it has not only survived, but flourished for 100 years.

Uber capacity wundernines are great for spray-n-pray and clearing buildings. As a responsible civilian I will never do either.

:D
 
My usual carry gun is a .45 but I feel quite well protected the times I carry a 9MM. I hear about all of these stories about how the 9MM has failed miserably in Iraq but just exactly how many of these soldiers have actually seen someone shot with a pistol??:uhoh:
 
CWL: We had 1911s on my ship in 1999. I used them often, and carried them on duty and shot them often.
We also had Smith .38s, and of course the M-9. This wasn't all that long ago.
The MTU at Camp Legeune had 1911s until FOUR YEARS AGO. I shot them, and helped fit parts on them as many were worn out. So, there a plenty of guys who have used the 1911 recently in the military.
However, the last time we went to war with them as our PRIMARY pistol was Panama. So, yes, there aren't too many guys who used both at war.
The Beretta runs very well, and I had exactly zero problems with either of mine in Iraq. They were accurate, reliable, and in reality, they shoot hardball just the same as any other gun.
The problem is not the caliber, but the type of round. The FMJ bullets never expand, and most of the time pass right through the target.
Give me lead hollow-point .38s over FMJ .45 every time.
 
Im a recently ex army guy too. A comment made above that soldiers like to moan is true! And yes, another comment about how many soldiers have shot at someone with a pistol.....not many, so I am always kinda amused by this '9mm is crap' argument. Ask about 5.56, different story.....but thats another topic.

Remember one thing as a civilian you have an advantage with is ammo choice which is denied to the military. Using good JHP rounds is a big leveler.

Another consideration (a big huge consideration in this day and age.....) is cost of ammo! If you want a safe queen, get the 45. If you want to get proficient and practice more, stick with your 9mm. Or as someone else said.....keep your 9mm and get the 45 as well!
 
9mm or .45

I have always carried 9mm or .40 caliber but have decided .45 is the right caliber for carry. Why? Simply for all the reasons you mention. 9mm and .40 are nice but if you can put .45 on a BG or BG's why not do so. I mean it's your own life you are protecting. The capacity question was always on my mind but for me the 13 rounds in the magazine of a full size XD answer that issue. I don't have the XD yet but it's my next purchase. I won't be selling any of my other guns because I enjoy reloading and shooting all calibers. Having made this decision, I feel a little like Grasshopper must have felt when he finally graduated from Master Po's school for aspiring monks.
 
I believe everyone should have many various calibers on hand. I reload, and occasionally cannot find components. Currently I cannot find 9mm stuff, so I am reloading 38/357 and 40/10mm. I have a bunch of 45 sitting.
I enjoy pistols but will not consolidate to any 1 caliber. If you only purchase ammo from stores, there are sometimes problems getting your caliber. I am not concerned, because I switch guns/calibers to market conditions.

Just my $0.02.
 
Quote:
This guy is ex-military person and he was telling me stories about how his friends in Iraq have been having lot of problems since they switched from .45 to 9mm Beretta as their sidearm.

How many rank & file military do you think have served long-enough to have been issued both 1911s and M9s? Very few and they'd be pretty old by now since the M9 was adopted in the 1980s. How many of these do you think were unlucky enough to get in a firefight with only a sidearm more than once -and survived despite using inferior 9mm?
Click to expand...


I was thinking the same thing.
 
I know a couple of LEOs that still carry the 44. Most of the guys I know when asked about the 9mm that they carry say they want it for capacity. I carry a 45 and am trying to choose between a 38+p (I currently cast and reload for this) and a 44spec (no reloading yet) for a bug. I understand your confusion:D
 
Unless there is a pressing economic need, keep your guns.

What if 5 years down the road you change your mind again? a 9mm safe queen is better than regretting selling the gun.
 
I'm in the .45 ACP 'camp.' I have a 1911 as well as a 625 5" Bbl. .45 ACP - I also keep a stock of .45 Auto Rim. The .45 ACP in
full moon clips is an easy way to accumulate once fired brass without
having to bend over and search for brass. I served in the USN
and carried the 1911A1 on watch/POOW duty, earned the ribbon
with it.

However, with the rising cost of ammo, I got a CZ 75B in 9mm LUger
about a year ago to have a more economical option at the
range. So, now I shoot less .45s but supplement it with the CZ and 9x19.
It has it's place, but I think I'll get a 1911 in CCO format for a CCW as
the next handgun acquisition.

As far as .40 S&W goes, nothing really appeals to me except perhaps a
S&W 610 for a 10MM Auto & .40 S&W platform - just to have one
cause I like DA revolver shooting and the big N-frame S&Ws.

Cover the bases yah never know when you might run into
somebody who wants to unload extra ammo.

One thing I've learned if you have a gun that is accurate
and reliable NEVER let it go.

Randall
 
Why not go with the 9x25 dillon on a 1911 platform? Damn near 357 mag velocities, in an autoloader. 10mm necked down to 9mm, cant go wrong with that.
 
Variety

I love the .45. But I would not consolidate to just that round. The one thing that I have learned in the recent ammo/craze is that it is wise to have multiple calibers. Most everyone on the boards can give you at least one story about a shopping trip to their local ammo stop and the shelves have been empty. I'm shooting air rifles right now ($5 for 4000 bbs!) because I can't justify shooting up my supply.

Another thing to think about is that even though the ammo drought will probably end in the next 6-12 months, inflation will rear its ugly head in a big way. Our government is printing money to buy our own Treasuries. The dollar's value will be seriously compromised. Couple this with another spike in basic materials (copper, lead, oil to transport) and the cost of Ammunition will not be going down.

The reason I mention this is that the .45 is an expensive round. If you had to get rid of your 9's, you might want to pick up or trade for a .22 for constant, inexpensive shooting. Best of Luck!!
 
Yes, please sell all your 9s and switch to 45! That way we have one less person buying/shooting up the 9mm ammo and I can find some more! :mad:
 
All my guns were .45 minus a glock 26 (9mm). Last month I sold it and bought a Glock 30 SF. Now all I have is .45 and a S&W model 60 .38 for when I have to pocket carry.
 
Would a .44 perhaps be an even better option for such defense?
Click to expand...
According to Marshal and Sanow .44 magnum is not as good as .45 ACP, probably because the bullets ar designed for hunting and don't expand as much. They say .44 special is good though. I guess it really it whether you want a wheelgun or a semi-auto.
 
The one thing that I have learned in the recent ammo/craze is that it is wise to have multiple calibers.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. And ammo availability issues can happen for any number of reasons.
 
Virtually all that have been held up next to the .45 have been proven significantly inferior.
Click to expand...

From what data do you derive this? Most comparisons by mathematics, physics, and ballistic gel that I've seen show them pretty close. Maybe a slight edge to .45 ACP, but the word "significant" doesn't even enter the lexicon. Nothing that shot placement won't ultimately trump, anyway...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

L
  • Locked
9mm vs .40 vs .45 Lethality
Replies
11
Views
1K
Robert
Robert
H
  • Locked
Why do people hate the 9mm?
2 3 4 5
Replies
123
Views
10K
jad0110
J
X
  • Locked
Out of all of em' 9mm is hard to beat.
2 3 4 5
Replies
105
Views
7K
ugaarguy
ugaarguy
S
  • Locked
The Religion of the .45, 9mm is the Devil!
2 3 4
Replies
88
Views
5K
smoothdraw
S
C
  • Locked
.45 ACP and 9mm for defense while hiking
2
Replies
28
Views
12K
harley
H
Back
Top