corrosive ammo

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I use Dihydrogen Monoxide.

However, Dihydrogen Monoxide, or DHMO, is a colorless and odorless chemical that kills or maims thousands each year, primarily through accidental inhalation. It has also been revealed to be a causative agent in many environmental exposure incidents, industrial contaminations, automobile accidents, and property damage. The dollar amount losses caused, and the lives impacted, by the DHMO threat are virtually innumerable.

And there are a bunch of namby pambies out there that want to ban the stuff.
http://www.dhmo.org/
 
Just for my future reference, what's wrong with windex/ammonia??

Compared it to the price of hot soapy water lately?

Big +1 to DHMO despite is toxicity it really does the job!

--wally.


--wally.
 
I think the reason why some people don't want to use water is because we have been taught that steel and water don't mix. Pouring water on an old surplus rifle that likely has much of its bluing gone seems like an invitation to rust.
 
I don't worry about it. Cleaning with windex is womens work so I just give my weapons to my wife to clean... :evil: :D
 
There were some tragedies reported in the old safari days when Bwana counted on his gun bearer to clean his dangerous game rifle. You be careful, now, you hear?
 
I think the reason why some people don't want to use water is because we have been taught that steel and water don't mix. Pouring water on an old surplus rifle that likely has much of its bluing gone seems like an invitation to rust

Its the salts and ions in the water that help rust form, once you've flushed away the salts, the water is little threat. It takes more time for the rust to form than it does for the parts to dry.

The key is a good coat of rust inhibiting oil after the water is dry. Break-Free has admirably done this job for me for many years.

--wally.
 
I have not used corrosive ammo for decades and I won't.

When I did, I used water--a lot of it, and very hot. Enough to completely dissolve and wash away the corrosive salts, and hot enough to heat the metal sufficiently to cause the water to evaporate completely.

If you can clean from the breach immerse the muzzle in a pan of hot water and pump with the patched rod. Immerse the parts in a pan of very hot water. Change the water and repeat. Follow up with oil.

How bad are the salts? I had an early war time 98K with a very good bore. I used corrosive Israeli ammo. One time I fired one shot--one--and didn't clean the rifle until the next afternoon. Result? Completely ruined bore.

The results may depend a lot on humidity.

Hoppe's No. 9 was developed after fouling from cupronickel bullet jackets created a problem in high powered rifles (hence the ammonia). Read Townsend Whelen's "Days of the Krag" for an interesting insight into the problem.

When I was younger, Hoppe's wasn't recommended for cleaning bores in which corrosive ammo had been used. It may work, but you'll need an awful lot to do the job.

Years ago a guy who was moving to another state sold a lot of reloading supplies that he had purchased when the North Koreans crossed the 38th parallel--he hadn't been able to get ammo during WWII. I bought a bunch, including a supply of Frankford Arsenal FA-70 primers. I kept them in reserve for years but I never used any. I just don't like putting the salts into a gun.
 
from what I read over at 7.62x54r.net they recommed Hoppes 9. and claim it is just as effective as good ol ammonia.
 
from what I read over at 7.62x54r.net they recommed Hoppes 9. and claim it is just as effective as good ol ammonia.

Anyone compared the price of Hoppes 9 vs. Parson's Sudsy Ammonia, vs. Windex, vs. plain old hot soapy water recently?

With all the complaints about ammo prices, seems strange to get all these recommendations to waste money on solvents when the best is free on tap.

--wally.
 
I put a bit of Joy soap in water in an old windex bottle. Spray it at the range, run the snake a few times, dump some water down, snake it dry, put some oil down and then clean it like a normal gun at home. It may help that I live in an arid environment, but I have never had any problems.

Don't think there is a magic bullet here beyond what has worked forever. Common denominator seems to be water :cool:
 
A few years ago I saw that the ingredients list for Hoppes #9 included what appeared to be a water-based item, I forget which ... as I recall the ingredient was listed as "<10%".

I decided to test #9 on chlorate primer residue ...

I used one of my "spare" N°4s to fire 50 rounds of assorted old British milsurp Mk7 ammo. I then cleaned the rifle with only #9 (it has a mirror bore, btw, so cleaning is a snap) followed by a RemOil patch ... and then left the rifle (sans bolt) outside of the gunsafe in the basement (RH today down there is 67% as it has been rainy 'round here for the past few weeks).

That was Nov'05 ... the rifle is still there, unfired in all of this time and there is no corrosion in the bore.

That said, I still use water or something water-based to pre-clean firearms after using chlorate-primered ammo ... just to be sure, y'know? ;)

FWIW ...
 
from what I read over at 7.62x54r.net they recommed Hoppes 9. and claim it is just as effective as good ol ammonia.

Do they know anything about chemistry?

My recollection is by no means completely reliable, but as I understand it, Hoppe's No. 9 was developed to solve the problem of copper fouling. It came about shortly after the advent of jacketed bullets loaded in high-intensity rifle cartridges. I also believe that ammonia solutions were once sometimes recommended to remove copper fouling.

The problem with corrosive potassium chlorate-based primers is that one of the products of ignition is potassium chloride, which is a powerful reducing agent. Potassium chloride is soluble in water, which can be used to remove the potassium chloride from gun barrels.

I do not believe that potassium chloride is soluble in ammonia. No matter--if one plays around with ammonia per se (it's packaged as anhydrous ammonia), he won't care about the gun barrel!

However, "household ammonia" is really ammonium hydroxide, heavily diluted in water, so if water dissolves potassium chloride, so will household ammonia. You're not going to want to leave any traces in the barrel, however.

When I was a lot younger, writers in The American Rifleman strongly advised against trying to clean barrels fired with corrosive primers with Hoppes, Outers, or any other of then-current solvents. The problem was that the corrosive potassium salts were not soluble in those products. It was reported that U. S. Army Bore Cleaning Fluid would work fine. I don't remember what it contained. The recommended alternative was water.

That's to get rid of the corrosive salts. That would leave the problem of copper fouling. Hoppe's No. 9 would be fine for that. I would never trust it to get rid of the potassium salts, however.

Full disclosure: I last studied chemistry in 1963.
 
How about getting water into the chamber without spilling on the surrounding areas? Few people discuss this, anywhere on the Internet.

I went to Kroger and discovered a (made for kids) plastic bottle by Playtex, which has a narrow but tough plastic tube and is water tight, even around the tube.
By first bending the straw, it can then go slowly into the Lee-Enfield's (my first) chamber, but luckily the water does not come out very quickly

How long do you really experienced guys let the water go down before drying-maybe a minute?
Just got the J. Carbine with a really shiny bore.
Don't want it to ever shoot in 10" patterns at 50 yards, as with my two MN 44s.
 
Windex is a water and ammonia based cleaner. Therefore, it hits two birds with one stone. The ammonia is good for getting the copper fouling out from the grooves and pits in your barrel. This is why you should use a copper-solvent if you shoot a lot of copper jacketed bullets, even with non-corrosive ammo). If you only use soap and water (or another solvent that does not have an agent to break down the copper), there may still be copper fouling and potassium chloride fouling in your barrel, which will build up over time and cause rust. Using warm/hot water dissolves the potassium chloride which is then washed out of the barrel with the water. So, using windex helps because it will both dissolve the potassium chloride and help remove the copper fouling that is built up in your barrel.

Hope this helps clear some things up.
 
Like someone said above, oil based solvents will not solvate a salt like the KCl (potassium chloride) found in corrosive primers. The reason for this is that oil is NOT polar, and water IS polar. The polarity of water dissociates the salt into two ions. Potassium has a "+" charge and Chlorine has a "-"charge. Consequently, because of the dipole moment created by the electronegativity of oxygen and the lone electron pair on the oxygen of a water molecule, a region of positive charge and a region of negative charge are created about the H2O molecule, which is what makes it polar. As a result, the negative regions of H2O molecules will surround the positive K (postassium) ion, and the positive regions of the H2O molecules will surround the positive Cl (chlorine) molecule, thus dissociating the salt.

So to answer your question simply, any water based cleaner should be more than sufficient to take care of the corrosive KCl.
 
I use Dihydrogen Monoxide.

However, Dihydrogen Monoxide, or DHMO, is a colorless and odorless chemical that kills or maims thousands each year, primarily through accidental inhalation. It has also been revealed to be a causative agent in many environmental exposure incidents, industrial contaminations, automobile accidents, and property damage. The dollar amount losses caused, and the lives impacted, by the DHMO threat are virtually innumerable.

And there are a bunch of namby pambies out there that want to ban the stuff.
http://www.dhmo.org/

Lol, good old dihydrogen monoxide. It was single handedly responsible for destroying my whole bottom floor a few years ago.
 
I have used windex in my BP gun and my enfield with crappy surplus ammo, and after years of use, the bores on both of them are still like new. There is absolutely no reason for me not to trust windex. Actions speak louder than words or theories and windex works. Period.
 
I have used mainly hot water. I see no advantage to soap except that it cleans your hands.

Jim
 
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