Need a .308 AR-10 type weapon with all the "evil" looking goodies - suggestions?

Notice you said hunting as one purpose for the rifle. A word of warning, adding all those "goodies" you want adds weight, lots of weight and are not needed in the least for hunting or much else except for "looking" tactical and driving the price higher. Got an Armalite 20" and a 16" AR-10 and you may not realize they are heaver than a AR-15. All that stuff would drive you nuts after carrying it all day. Just leave the thing alone as far goodies are concern, add a scope to a flattop but otherwise leave it alone, it will look better (IMHO) and be lighter. Use the money you save for ammo (you'll need it) and buy the wife something as a thank you.

Why do people fret over spending $30-$40 on a magazine when they've just dropped damned near $2k on a rifle?

Click to expand...

I have a Saiga 12 so believe me I know about expensive mags so I don't complain but I see where people are coming from. Mainly because AK mags are cheap, USGI M14 magazines are back to $21, the best AR mags (pmags) only cost $15, the G3 mags are practically free, and FAL mags are cheap too. People like to have lots of magazines I guess and why spend $200 when you can spend $100 or $75? I don't think though for me a $40 mag would stop me from buying a rifle especially knowing the mags are being made now and will be continuing to be made for a long time.

Regarding "Proprietary" magazines...

I am not certain as to what constitutes a "proprietary" magazine.

At some point-- when the FAL was the only rifle that took a FAL magazine, that magazine was... proprietary.

When the G3 was the only rifle that took a G3 magazine, that magazine was... proprietary.

Same with the M1A. Same with the AR-15.

What people are really complaining about when they say "proprietary" magazines are cost and availability.

Sure, you can pay quite a bit for SR-25/LR-308 magazines on gunbroker. Those prices are inflated due to demand.

Or you can do what I did....

I showed a little patience and put in my order for CProducts stainless steel magazines for $22.00.

I've got several and I am as pleased with them as I am with my DPMS ones that cost $44. I'll not complain about a 308 AR magazine for less than $25.00 a pop.

Another consideration is Magpul is about to release a 308 PMag for around the $20.00 price tag.

As I see it, the KNS SR-25 magazine based 308 AR's do not use a "Proprietary" magazine. They use the same magazine as the military M-110 SASS (aka the SR-25.) In addition, the SR-25, the DPMS LR-308, the Fulton Armory Titan FAR-308, the POF 308, the LaRue OSR and some I am forgetting ALL use the same "proprietary" magazine.

In my opinion, as the 308 AR platform continues to gain popularity, and more manufacturers we will see more "aftermarket" magazines coming to the market. We are already seeing that in other aftermarket products.

I believe that everyone was waiting to see what platform was going to have the dominant marketshare. With the adoption of the M-110/SR-25 by the military, I believe we have our answer.


-- John

Logic, rbernie, others,

I like the Armalite .308 offerings, but in this model "AR-10 A4 RIFLE 7.62 W FORWARD ASSIST GREEN (model 10A4F, 20" barrel)", what does "forward assist" mean? (here is web page).

Also, Armalite offers a civilian Super S.A.S.S. (here is web page). How does this differ from the M110 SASS military version? If not too much, at $3100 it is a bargain compared to $7K or so for the Knight Arms competitor...

Left handed shooters looking for all of the "evil" looking goodies seem
to be much happier and more satisfied with the M14 EBR and MK14.

what does "forward assist" mean?

Click to expand...

It means that there is an area on the upper receiver that has a push-button/rod that will assist in closing the bolt on a round if the bolt has not locked down. This is the exact thing that the AR-15 forward assist does.

The forward assist isn't all that necessary in most cases. I'd not force a bolt closure on a round if it didn't want to lock up.

However, I DO find a use for forward assist on my LR-308. If you are trying to close the bolt quietly-- such as in hunting applications, the forward assist can make it possible. I use mine routinely during deer season.

How does this differ from the M110 SASS military version?

Click to expand...

It will not use the same magazines. You will have to get magazines from Armalite or (I think) modify M1A magazines. The thread pitch on the Barrel nut is different on the Armalite platform than is on the SR-25 and clones. This means that forearm options will require different barrel nuts if you use a free-float forearm.

If not too much, at $3100 it is a bargain compared to $7K or so for the Knight Arms competitor...

Click to expand...

You can get into an SR-25 clone for a LOT less than $7K for a SR-25.

I started out with a LR-308B and have replaced practically every part with my preferences and I haven't broken $3K for the rifle. I'll take pictures later today.

The SR-25 is hard to come by due to military contracts, and because it was picked, it goes for a premium. However, you can get into the 308 AR world with SR-25 clones that are just as functional and accurate for a lot less.


-- John

Thanks John. Excellent info.

Left handed shooters looking for all of the "evil" looking goodies seem
to be much happier and more satisfied with the M14 EBR and MK14.

Click to expand...

Actually, I am naturally left-handed. While I shoot right-handed primarily, I can shoot from either shoulder as naturally as the other.

In hunting, I have often had to take shots from my left shoulder. In fact, the last three deer I killed were shot left-handed.

I say all of that because I've never experienced ANY issues firing my LR-308 left-handed. Of the shots that's mattered, I think at least half of them have been off my left shoulder. I should point out that I took those shots prior to upgrading my upper receiver to the one with a brass deflector and forward assist. Still, no issues.

Even with the slick side, my brass was ejected to the forward right about 3 feet away.


While I have nothing against the M1A, I would not pick one over a 308 AR for the sole reason that I was worried about firing it left-handed. I'm living proof that a 308 AR can fire off either shoulder fine.


-- John

John,

Name some of those SR-25 clones, please, manufacturer and model letters. Thanks.

John,

Name some of those SR-25 clones, please, manufacturer and model letters. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Will do my friend...

From the top of my head... (unless otherwise stated, they all use the SR-25 style magazine):


DPMS LR-308

There are several models to choose from. This is a good place to get an idea:

http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/category.aspx?id=9

Fulton Armory

http://www.fulton-armory.com/

Go to the "Titan" page. I can't get a direct link.

POF


http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/p308.htm

Larue OSR (Optimized Sniper Rifle)

I can't get up the link. Odd.


Knights Armament:

http://www.knightarmco.com/images/sr25.html



I did not include due to being a different pattern/magazine:

Rock River
Armalite
Bushmaster


From what I see, the market is essentially dominated by the DPMS rifles at this time. Armalite has a strong following as well.


-- John

Thanks again, John. A crop of excellent rifles you mention as SR-25 clones.

I am lost, however. (Not your problem!) I need a taxonomy and maybe a timeline of this whole family of family of rifles. The OP started out asking about "AR-10 type" rifles, but it had to be chambered in .308 (was it ever anything else?). Then we got over to the DPMS 308 rifles (which weigh like 11 lbs empty!) and about which DPMS Inc. says on their web site (middle of home page)

The weapons and patented AR-15 parts and AR-15 accessories that DPMS designs and manufactures...

Click to expand...

but there're also the M4, A2, Mark 12, the M14 (on the part of Fulton) and several others scattered here and there. All, or most, somehow related to the SR-25, which I read was based upon the AR-10. So we've come full circle, 'cept I took a left at the light and was never seen again. (Professing ignorance is not easy to do gracefully.)

Is there any resource or history or, better yet, a family tree diagram that clarifies the relations involved here? I can only imagine the the patent and intellectual property landscape here must be a crater field. At some point, these things reduce down to people. Must be some stories.....

Quite a lot of it reduces down to one man: Eugene Stoner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Stoner

The SR in SR-25 = Stoner Rifle

One of the great firearms designers of the 20th Century.

which weigh like 11 lbs empty!

Click to expand...

The DPMS lite is 7.99lbs empty and AP4 is 8.5lbs.

Logic, Yes, I picked up from the KnightArmCo web site that Eugene Stoner partnered with a person named Knight. Of course, I picked up from "osmosis" (maybe the Military Channel documentaries on the M16) that Stoner originated the concept that became the M16. This all happened before Vietnam, right? Oh yeh, I see from the Wiki link that Stoner died in 1997.

After reading the Stoner article in Wikipedia, I got some of my questions answered. AR-10 = .308 and AR-15 (and M-16) = .223. Thanks. The original of all these "AR" clone companies is murky to me. Obviously, there is blurring of the caliber/chambering versus the rifle names.

Is the defining feature of all AR-10 and AR-15 (and their other-named rifles and clones) the split receiver? I.e., an upper receiver and a lower? Is this unique? What's good about it?

I like the mix and match nature of the "AR" family. But I gather that not all clones have interchangable parts? I don't like the butt stock angle with no drop, but some combs raise the cheek position back up to where an AR's would be anyway. I gather the straight stock worked OK with the original carry-handle rear iron sight, because it was so high, and maybe, theoretically, transferred recoil straight back reducing muzzle flip-up?