Educate me on the .223 caliber..useful for HD?

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If I had to choose the best all around rifle round it would probably be the .308
+1 ... with a Nato chamber to use all that good milsurp that's still around, but not FMJ for HD of course :)
 
NEWS FLASH: You should ALWAYS assume that your shot is going through a few layers, no matter what round you are using.

But a few layers of what???

Our point exactly.... the good ol' .223 WILL go through a few layers and then some... at 7y it most likely will go through the BG.

We don't have to state to be aware of your back shoot area in every post... if your shooting at all, this you should already know and adhere to! :banghead:

If not... shame on you! :cuss:
 
Uncle Mike, you must have a hard time reading.

This and many other things like it have been posted SEVERAL times in this thread but you must have missed it somehow.

FBI studies have indicated that over penetration at CQB ranges have in the past been exaggerated in 5.56/.223 and it penetrates less in human tissue than most common pistol rounds (including JHP's) on average.

Do you understand that??
 
Our point exactly.... the good ol' .223 WILL go through a few layers and then some... at 7y it most likely will go through the BG.

This is irrelevant, because most self-defense rounds fired in self defense shootings miss their target. What is important is how much it penetrates wood, sheetrock, and other housing materials.
 
NEWS FLASH: You should ALWAYS assume that your shot is going through a few layers, no matter what round you are using.

Can YOU read... what does his post say???

Going through a few layers of...... of what??

FBI studies have indicated that over penetration at CQB ranges have in the past been exaggerated in 5.56/.223 and it penetrates less in human tissue than most common pistol rounds (including JHP's) on average

I understand this... but do you understand I was NOT commenting on this particular statement... which, to be honest, I do not totally agree with... but we all know if the FBI says it... it must be true.. huh?
 
Yeah, I actually get all of my credible gun information from Uncle Mike. The FBI is not a professional agency with a lot of street and lab data to analyze or anything. They don't know much about ballistics.

but we all know if you don't agree with it... it must NOT be true.. huh?:)
 
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Settle, guys.

Any round capable of penetrating adequately in BGs is also capable of penetrating several wall's worth of sheetrock and such. Giving up wall penetration also means giving up BG penetration, and that sounds like a poor choice to me.

Instead, you should focus on picking rounds that are adequate to the task, and gain proficiency in you SD/HD weapons.

Anyone that wants to continue to debate barrier penetration better go spend some time reviewing the Box O' Truth tests first, or show up with FBI-protocol barrier test data in hand. Bandying about wall penetration homilies and anecdotes in response to a deadly serious topic is simply NOT on The High Road.
 
Been thinking of getting an urban rifle... and I noticed that Wally World has plenty of .223 in stock. How effective is this caliber?

Most .223 hollow points are excellent man stoppers. Most FMJ rounds are so-so. The best of all possible worlds is probably SS109, if you can find any that isn't factory seconds. It has excellent stopping power and is cheap because it's a milsurp FMJ round.
For home defense of 7 yards....... or out in the field at 100 yards?

You should have no problems hitting a goblin's vital zone at 100 yards with any .223 rifle on the market today, if it's in good condition.
 
The SS109 is exactly what we are talking about for BAD HD rounds. I suppose you can decide if there is some 'urban combat' situation for which it is applicable, but this is a round that will go through multiple targets and damage whatever stops it. Ask me how I know.
 
too loud for indoors

I'll bring up the subject that the .223 is too high a pressure round to be firing in a small enclosed area. Unless you are wearing hearing protection, you'll be dazed with your ears hurting.

12 guage, 9mm, .45 pistol or carbine would serve better for close indoor shooting.
 
hawmanai, that point has already been addressed. The decibels of a .223 out of a rifle and a .45 out of a handgun are essentially the same. Not to mention the fact that people in gun battles rarely ever even recall the sound at all.
 
If you have the option, you should always wear ear pro. Electronic ear protection is now affordable for virtually everyone.

Is the 223 good for home defense - well yes - and by the same logic a bazooka would be even better.

Not at all true. A "bazooka" employed at close range would be enormously destructive to the structure, in addition to being a hazard to the person employing it.

A .223 carbine with good ammunition is my first choice for home defense. I don't think it's the only good choice, and there are plenty of platforms I'd also feel comfortable with (I currently have a #4, MK 2 with softpoints and an Model 94 in .45 Colt close at hand, in addition to handgun choices). I do think my AR-15 is an overall better choice than either, though.

John
 
Talking home defense, right? Heck, 9mm in a carbine is more than adequate. OK, if ya gets a.223, surely can't faullt you, but consider penetration in close home defense/urban setting. If you really want it get it though.
 
So...you're saying you want more penetration than afforded by .223?! I mean, sure, overpen is frequently exaggerated as an issue, but you make it sound like the 9x19mm is better in some way.
 
Where do you get hollow point .223? All I ever see is FMJ.
Wal-Mart or your local sporting goods store (until the recent run on ammunition, anyway). I like Federal 55-grain JHP, myself.

Talking home defense, right? Heck, 9mm in a carbine is more than adequate. OK, if ya gets a.223, surely can't faullt you, but consider penetration in close home defense/urban setting. If you really want it get it though.
You do realize that typical .223 JHP penetrates less than 9mm JHP, yes?
 
Talking home defense, right? Heck, 9mm in a carbine is more than adequate. OK, if ya gets a.223, surely can't faullt you, but consider penetration in close home defense/urban setting. If you really want it get it though.

Did you actually read any of this thread? Just wondering.
 
Why, why, why... why ask why, there is no right or wrong answer here....
For some a high power rifle is fine for home defense, others a pistol... yet another, a shotgun is the only feasible choice.

If one could stay adequately calm during a home invasion, call their shots under fire, if this so takes place, picking suffciant back shot area, then I should think any weapon platform mentioned above would be of a sufficiant nature. :D

Peace :D
 
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