Rifles of Algerian War 1954-62

The French used a variety of arms, including rifles and submachine guns manufactured in France. But their mainstay was the M1 Garand rifle and the M1 Carbine, obtained from the US.

The insurrectionists used similar arms (obtained from the French) and some supplied by the Soviet Bloc.

I've also seen some k98 and Stgw44 in the hand of the rebels.

Yep -- a lot of Nazi equipment wound up in some strange places. In the '48 Arab-Israeli war, the Israeli mainstay aircraft was the Messerschmitt.

Yep, 109G's from hungary if i am not mistaking

Yes the Alegerians also used alot of U.S.( left over from WW2) & French (captured) weapons such as; M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, Thompson 1928, MAT 49 SMG, MAS 36 & 36/51 bolt actions, MAS 49 & 49/56 7.5x54mm semi-auto rifle, as well as, numerous German, Spanish and Italian rifles.
The Beretta 1938 & 38/42 SMG was also very popular, as was LMGs & rifles from Czechoslovakia and the Sten.
Pistols....Stars, Walthers, MAS 35, MAB D, S&W M&P revolvers, BHP.. you name it, they probably had it!...Both sides!

In the '48 Arab-Israeli war, the Israeli mainstay aircraft was the Messerschmitt.

Click to expand...

Not quite.

They purchased a number of Avia DEVELOPMENTS of the Bf109, built by Avia in Czechoslovakia. Unfortunately, they used (if I remember correctly) the Jumo engine and a fat, paddle bladed propellor that gave the aircraft vicious torque. I think these were the B99 and B199. They were lousy fighters.

.......................holding back the French rifle jokes......



fighting it







still fighting it.......









Oh-man.........

I have been watching the series on WW1 and I think the French did what the other Armies should have done. THey refused to keep running en mass at machine guns, over and over. The managed to change the French General and the tactics changed....but I sill find the humor in the jokes, even though they are not true.....

I think the French did what the other Armies should have done. THey refused to keep running en mass at machine guns, over and over. The managed to change the French General and the tactics changed....but I sill find the humor in the jokes, even though they are not true.....

Click to expand...

Actually, they didn't cause a change in tactics. They muntinied and refused to attack. Now, that played right into the German's hands -- the German strategy after the Schilefen plan failed was to defend in the west and hammer the Russians in the east. The Russians, for their part, were screaming for the Western Allies to take the pressure off them -- which is why so many attacks were made in the west. With the French muntiny, the Russians saw the Western Allies were not up to the task and capitulated. This freed German forces to come east and crush the Western Allies.

The fly in the German's ointment was the United States. US troops were arriving in great numbers, and the Germans had only a narrow window to make their increased troop strength felt. The Germans had also adopted new tactics -- the so-called Huiter Tactics -- which emphasized small unit initiative, by-passing strong points, and penetrading deeply instead of mass shoulder-to-shoulder attacks.

The Germans broke the French, and American troops were hastily thrown into the gap. It was the Americans who won the Second Battle of the Marne. As the Americans marched up, they were met by streams of demoralized French who called out "La guerre est finit." ("The war is over.")

The Americans replied "'pa finit." ("not over.")

After the battle, an American sector was created and the American sector was called the 'pa Finit Sector.

The Germans broke the French, and American troops were hastily thrown into the gap. It was the Americans who won the Second Battle of the Marne. As the Americans marched up, they were met by streams of demoralized French who called out "La guerre est finit." ("The war is over.")

Click to expand...

And the French are supposed to be arrogant... whatever! Is it just you or that rumor that Americans claim to have won both WW1 and WW2 all by themselves is true?

You forgot that during the counter-offensive at the second battle of the Marne, there were 24 French divisions for 8 US divisions. Mangin and Berthelot were entirely succesful by their own means.

I'm not denigrating the help of our American friends. They came at a decisive moment and provided the extra push necessary for the allies to win over the Germans.

But, PLEASE, give back to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

France was the country among the Allies that fought the most during that war. More than Brits, more than Americans.

Anyway,

Back to the topic, rifles of the Algerian war.

My Uncle was a draftee during the Algerian "events", it wasn't officialy called a war until a decade later.

He was issued a MAS-36. He told me the Fellagahs would use whatever they could get their hands on. That included French, German and US equipment. Sometimes they would catch some rebels with real obsolete guns like Gras rifles (single shot).

And the French are supposed to be arrogant...

Click to expand...

You don't like the fact that we stopped the Gemans just short of Paris in the Second Battle of the Marne? Take it up with Cleo, the Muse of History.

whatever! Is it just you or that rumor that Americans claim to have won both WW1 and WW2 all by themselves is true?

Click to expand...

And you call us arrogant?

we stopped the Gemans just short of Paris

Click to expand...

Once again, you didn't do it all by yourselves; please read my previous post one more time.

Once again, you didn't do it all by yourselves; please read my previous post one more time.

Click to expand...

The Second Battle of the Marne was won by the US. Beginning on the 27th of May, 1918, the Germans drove Duchene's Sixth French Army back more than 60 miles, making a salient more than 50 miles wide. It was men from the retreating Sixth French Army who called out "La Guerre est finit" to the advancing Americans.

A total of five US Infantry Divisions were committed to block the gap left by the retreating French. The US 3rd Infantry Division stopped the German advance at Chateau Thierry and the 2nd US Infantry Division launched counterattacks into Vaux, Bourches and Belleau Wood. This action saved Paris and broke the back of the German advance.

The American victory also had a major inpact on French morale, which improved markedly as a result.

As John Keegan, the Dean of British Military Historians wrote in The First World War,

The French had five of the enormous American divisions, 28,000 strong, in their order of battle, and these fresh troops fought with a disregard for casualties scarcely seen on the Western Front since the beginning of the war. On the night of July 18/19 the German vanguard which had crossed the Marne three days earlier fell back across the river and the retreat continued in the days that followed. The fifth German offensive and the battle the French called the Second Battle of the Marne was over and could not be revived.

Click to expand...

See also Brigadier Vincent J. Esposito's West Point Atlas of American Wars, Volume II for detailed maps of the battle.

As an aside, during ODS I was attached to the 2nd REI (French Foreign Legion) as a liaison and most of the enlisted & NCO's were Dutch, Swedish, German, Norwegians, Swiss and a couple of Englishmen. All the officers were French. Troops overall were very competent (even the officers).

One point you might make is that the officers in question were not actually members of the Legion. Just as the US Marines have no medical personnel or chaplains, and Navy personnel are seconded to the Marines for those duties, so the Legion has no officers. The officers are seconded from the regular French Army.

The Second Battle of the Marne was won by the US.

Click to expand...

So, according to you, neither Mangin's 10th Army nor Degoutte's 6th Army played an important role in the victory at the second battle of the Marne? Despite the fact they advanced 5 miles on the first day of the counter-offensive that was launched on July 18?

Sorry, but the 2nd battle of the Marne was a Franco-American victory. NOT only an American one. Both the US and France managed to be decisive and efficient at the right moment.

One point you might make is that the officers in question were not actually members of the Legion. Just as the US Marines have no medical personnel or chaplains, and Navy personnel are seconded to the Marines for those duties, so the Legion has no officers. The officers are seconded from the regular French Army.

Click to expand...

You're mostly right but you don't take into account legionnaires who get the French nationality after their 5 years contract. After that they're able to become officers of the Legion.

So, according to you, neither Mangin's 10th Army nor Degoutte's 6th Army played an important role in the victory at the second battle of the Marne?

Click to expand...

You love to set up strawmen, don't you?

The German attack, which began on the 27th of May, was stopped by the Americans. It took six weeks for the Fench to rally and be in shape to attack with the Americans -- a breathing space bought for them by American blood.

You love to set up strawmen, don't you?

The German attack, which began on the 27th of May, was stopped by the Americans. It took six weeks for the Fench to rally and be in shape to attack with the Americans -- a breathing space bought for them by American blood.

Click to expand...

I'm not setting up strawmen, I'm commenting on your statement that "the 2nd battle of the Marne was won by the US".

So, yes, the US stopped the German advance at Chateau Tierry and Bellau woods. Does that represent the whole battle of the Marne? I don't think so. Plus, the French launched a major counter offensive on July 18th, which included Degoutte's 6th Army.

a breathing space bought for them by American blood

Click to expand...

France had 95000 casualties in that battle when the US suffered 12000.

So thank you for helping us, we needed your help, you were awesome, but stop pretending you were the only ones worth mentionning. That's just too absurd.

I'm not setting up strawmen, I'm commenting on your statement that "the 2nd battle of the Marne was won by the US".

Click to expand...

So don't try that, "Do you mean to say such-and-such" strawman.

The Second Battle of the Marne was won by the Americans.

Tweeeet! I see thread drift, Not High Road Procedure, not to mention a third battle of the Marne.