Wounded Black Bear attacks hunter, hunter responds with .45

I stick with Elmer Keith Wheelguns for dangerous game.

The virtual hunting debates on what caliber are a waste of time.

If people would spend time in the woods hunting they would realize its not the caliber, its shot placement.

#1 is don't take the shot unless you have a clear sight to the vitals. Having the idea of, oh well I can use a follow up shot is piss poor hunting.

I try to avoid hunting things that can EAT ME if I miss.

Well if t had been a smith and wesson 500 as a backup pistol he would have only had to pull it out


"I try to avoid hunting things that can EAT ME if I miss. "

But it so much fun to hunt predators.

This one piqued my interest.

I tried to call the guy but his number has been disconnected. My guess is that the anti hunting fools (of which there are plenty in Oregon) harrassed him.

I called a gun dealer in Glide (where the hunter lives) but he never heard of it.

Anyway, from here:

http://www.nrtoday.com/article/20080611/NEWS/696532934&parentprofile=search

.............it says,

A lefty, Wyckoff had accidentally hit the release that sent the clip for the gun, made for a right-handed grip, flying as he struggled with the bear on May 31.

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Now I'm interested in what kind of gun he was carrying. I'm a southpaw shooter and carry a semiauto for CCW.

Note to self: if asked to help track down a wounded bear, bring the .416.

Now I'm interested in what kind of gun he was carrying. I'm a southpaw shooter and carry a semiauto for CCW.

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There's a picture of the gun in the link you provided. Looks like a Llama commander-style 1911.

Which sucks for Dr. Winslow.

The fellow in the story (Aaron Wyckoff) sounds like a hardcase. Asked what it's like to be chewed on by a bear: “I wasn’t too worried about it until the gun quit going off,” the 33-year-old Glide man said. “… Right then, I knew I was screwed.”

How much you want to bet he's shopping for .500 now?

I'll bet *anything* that it was a plastic fantastic pistol with their hyper-sensitive leaf-spring mag releases,

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My Glock 17 had a small mag release w/strong spring. I never pulled it while a bear was munching on my leg, but I can't see how I could accidentally pop the mag. (I'm a southpaw shooter.)

Likewise, my 1911 has a fairly strong mag spring. Ditto the above. Maybe the guy in the article had an aftermarket button installed?

The actual gun in question. (I want 10% of whatever Winslow owes you.)

Oops, ok, I lose the bet. I can admit when I'm wrong. Must admit I'm shocked to see that, since 1911 styles typically take a very intentional act to release the mag. Flame suit on; let me have it!

But I still find it funny that smark alek man thought that it was a "1911 jam" after the story said it was a mag release issue.

Not sure if the Llama's quite qualify as 1911s. Sure they are based on it, but c'mon, they're llamas.

Also, you can see the teeth marks in the grip panel.

Seems like if you're operating the gun left handed the mag release is going to end up under the proximal portion of the index finger. Speaking for myself, if I'm being chewed on by a bear my trigger management is probably going to devolve into paroxysmal spasms of my entire hand. I can see how the mag release could've been activated by that.

Fodder for the "1911 is only for experts" thread...

Looks like a Llama commander-style 1911.

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Thanx. I hadn't noticed. Now I'm going to have to experiment with my CCW semiautos just to see if it could be an issue. (Sig 239 SAS DAK; Colt Combat Commander)

Edited to add: I just checked the 239. It's wearing Hogue fingergrooves and w/the grip to trigger angle, I can't see how one might drop the mag without trying to do so.

I have, however, accidentally popped the mag by bumping into something while carrying in my Galco holster. Maybe I'll carry it more often in my comptac.

Bottom line: Carry more guns with lots of high caliber ammo. And make syour your friends have the same set up.

A Glock 20 10mm with 20 rounds would do.

I am absolutely stunned that a thread about a fight with a bear could turn into a Glock vs. 1911 argument.

A Glock would not do. And obviously neither would a 1911. The gentleman needed a cannon of some sort, not a handgun of any description. If I knew I was wading into a brawl with a wounded bear, I would opt for a double in .577 Nitro. Or maybe I would just stay in bed.

hardluk i hear yah

were in the eastern part about 45 mins from the beach

here its all pacosin (thich brush like a mix of cane and vines cant get rid of it except burn it 4-5 times every 3 years) ive been in situations where you think all you have to do is make it it through 15 ft of brush and you have a clearing and a clear shot a bear. that clearing turns into a swamp and then that bear gets behind you. its a scary situation. i was going after a 450-500 in december when this exact thing happened i was 15 mins from our barn and though nothing of it but you get disoriented when you have no land marks and the animal can get behind you really easy.

in my case whne the bear started moving around in the brush 5ft from me i moved into the swamp where i would have some warning and i assessed the situation i had my buck knife, 5 rounds of 190gr .30-06, a compass and i left my phone in the truck. i decided it was better to come back another day with morepeople and the dogs

ive done some pretty stupid stuff, but ive been lucky getting charged once taught me a lesson about bears, TRAVEL IN FORCE i will no longer go after a bear alone its too much work and too dangerous

btw there is a dang bear that owes my brother in law a new lid on his dumpster it was big and light brown if ya see it tell her it owes him 250 for the deposit on the dumpster. one day ill just get the rug from it and sell it then we can call it even

Interesting thread. Interesting article. I threw an opinion onto a different thread a couple weeks back, and had to be 'corrected' about my assumption. (yes, the assumption made an a$$ out of me)

From what I've been told since then, and from a little focused research, it certainly appears that if you HAVE to go with an autoloader, the 10mm is the one to go with.

4 years ago, I went fishing in Yakutat Alaska for the coho run. We were river fishing in prime bear country, in an area where BROWN bears are estimated to outnumber the people. I CHOSE to bring my 1911, and purchased some cor-bons for the trip. I had a Ruger Blackhawk .44 in the safe, but my logic at the time went for the 1911 for a few reasons: I just about cut my teeth on a 1911, and I have more rounds downrange with that platform than all others put together, and the Ruger is SA. I have never had to shoot in a panic situation, so I went with what I was most comfortable with, thinking that I would have the best % of getting my rounds on target with that gun. We were ALWAYS in at least pairs, (everyone carried) and to top it off, I had the high chest holster for the 1911 so I could carry it with my chest waders. We were lucky nobody needed to use their sidearm.

I've been considering what would be a proper gun to carry as a sidearm in such situations. Wheelguns have certain advantages. They failure % is lower than autoloaders. Magnum calibers are available. You can get them in double action. The downside is that you're dealing with a larger platform, more weight to lug around, you only have 5 or 6 shots, and reloading is slow enough to make it impractical to attempt.

If I'm the one being attacked, I have no disillusion that I'll be able to reload. But, my fishing/hunting buddy(ies) could, and just keep shooting until he's empty. The story that the OP referenced, dealt with a .44 Mag point-blank to the head of the bear as the final ending shot. I have never been involved or witnessed a bear in the act of an attack, but once the bear is at that point, where it is in the act of mauling it's victim, would even a .454 Cassul or .50 BMG in the guts stop it instantly? I don't know. I don't want to volunteer to be the the test case.

That 1911 copy the victim used is not a full size. Therefore, it has a shorter barrel, and that coupled with whatever ammo was used, that could have a significant impact on the energy coming out of that gun. I'm in no way suggesting that a full size .45ACP, with +P loads would have solved the issue, but it at least should be mentioned, right?

I'm comfortable with the reliability of today's autoloaders. Keep in mind, in this case, it was the operator's error that ejected the magazine. (perhaps his error was selecting a right-handed configuration pistol to be used left handed, but the error was human, not mechanical) According to the victim, the gun did not fail.

I'm glad he came out OK, to me, that's the most important thing. But this has certainly given me more reason to consider changing my woods carry choice. With what I've seen so far, I'm leaning towards the .357 Sig, but I'd like to find a platform I like, (I don't care for the feel of a Glock) and that's in my price range that will handle the 10mm. But I've also just started to look for one, perhaps they are easy to find.

One shot with a .40...

...killed this one, but it was only a 150-pounder and wasn't attacking at the time it was shot.

Catskill Bear Snatches Infant From Stroller And Kills Her
By WINNIE HU
Published: Tuesday, August 20, 2002

A young black bear killed a 5-month-old girl outside her family's summer bungalow in a Catskill resort yesterday afternoon, snatching the sleeping baby from her stroller while the mother took her two other children to safety.

The bear ran into the woods of Fallsburg, N.Y., with the girl, but dropped her moments later as horrified members of an Orthodox Jewish vacation colony screamed and chased after it.

The baby, Esther Schwimmer, was taken by ambulance to Ellenville Regional Hospital and pronounced dead on arrival around 3 p.m., hospital officials said.

The bear, a 150-pound male, was killed by a Fallsburg police officer, David Decker, who followed him into the woods and shot him once with a .40-caliber pistol as the bear tried to climb a tree. The bear's body was taken to a state laboratory in Delmar, N.Y., to be tested for rabies and other diseases.

Officials from the State Department of Environmental Conservation said it was the first time they could remember a bear mauling a human to death in the wild in New York, though bear attacks have been reported in the past.

''Most bears usually shy away from humans,'' said Peter Constantakes, a spokesman for the department. ''Bears are not usually predatory creatures at all. In most cases, they are wary of humans.''

The last known attack in which a human was killed by a bear in New York was in 1987, when two polar bears mauled and killed an 11-year-old boy who climbed a fence at the Prospect Park Zoo in Brooklyn and sneaked into the polar bear enclosure.

The bear in Fallsburg yesterday was believed to be about 2 years old, and had not been tagged -- an indication that he had not been involved in previous encounters with humans, Mr. Constantakes said. The department has received about 40 nuisance complaints about bears this year in the lower Hudson Valley, including four in Sullivan County, where Fallsburg is located.

The Fallsburg police chief, Brent L. Lawrence, said the dead girl's mother, identified by family friends as Rachel Schwimmer, was playing in a grassy area with her three children near the Ohel Faiga Summer Cottages, a group of 20 or so worn buildings frequented by families from the Satmar Hasidic community in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. When she heard warning cries from neighbors, she grabbed the two older children and took them to the bungalow, the police chief said. While she was gone, the bear picked up the infant in his mouth and ran, chased by several bungalow residents. They wrapped the girl in a blanket and carried her to the ambulance.

Officer Decker said that when he arrived at the attack scene, bystanders pointed him to the woods. He soon came face to face with the bear, which stood about 5 feet tall, and shot him.

''I didn't want to see anyone else get hurt,'' he said. ''The bear wasn't leaving, it was just staying there.''

Chief Lawrence said that drought conditions may have destroyed some of the bear's natural food sources, and forced him to wander farther afield in search for food. There were reports of a second bear in the area, but police officers did not find any others yesterday afternoon.

''We get reports of bears quite often, but usually it's a brief sighting,'' the police chief said. ''This is probably a situation where a bear was foraging for food.''

Steve Levine, the town supervisor, said that development of second homes in what once used to be woods, along with a decline in hunting in recent years, had helped bring bears and humans into closer contact. ''It's a shock,'' he said. ''But just like there are crazy people, I'm sure there are crazy bears. I think this was a terrible, freaky thing.''

The baby's death was mourned yesterday in Williamsburg and in other close-knit Orthodox Jewish communities like Kiryas Joel, in Orange County, where the baby's grandfather, Mendel Schwimmer, is a well-known figure.

-- http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/20/n...tches-infant-from-stroller-and-kills-her.html

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Confusing reporting--I'm not sure how he was "face to face" with the bear if it was climbing a tree. I'm guessing he shot it in the back of the neck.

again, is there an over abundance of Black bears in this area that they have become a danger to the surrounding community.

Sorry, I never understood the mental makeup of shooting animals for fun and sport.

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2009/072009/07102009/477981
this one just shopped elsewhere

Growth sends bear shopping for food


More wildlife crossing paths with suburbanites

Date published: 7/10/2009

BY JONAS BEALS

The signs of summer are all around us: Interstate 95 beach traffic on Fridays, pools filled with splashing children, black bears wandering through local shopping centers.

Colleen Armington of Prince William County caught an ursine invader on film. The black bear was pawing through shopping carts near the entrance to the Giant grocery store off U.S. 17 in Stafford County Saturday evening.

The bear was unconcerned about being in the middle of suburbia, Armington said. "He confidently walked toward the front door. It looked like he knew exactly where he was going--like he had a shopping list."

The bear did not make it into the store and wandered off without harming people or property.

To the surprise of many residents, this area is an increasingly attractive home for two species most people associate with other states: bears and coyotes.

Officials from the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries insist that while these are wild animals that should be treated with respect, they pose no immediate threat to humans.

Officials also say that encounters with these animals are sure to increase.

With that in mind, now might be a good time to meet two of your increasingly less obscure neighbors.

THE BLACK BEAR

Black bears can be found in nearly every corner of North America and have been spotted in every county and city in Virginia. Sightings are becoming more frequent in our area as the bears' habitat shrinks and they learn to survive in suburban settings.

Typically, mature black bears in the area weigh 125 to 200 pounds. The largest black bear ever recorded was found in North Carolina and weighed 880 pounds.

Black bears are abundant in the western part of Virginia. During the 2008-09 hunting season, 2,204 were killed across the state.

A male bear can have a home range of up to 290 square miles. This is the time of year when 1-year-old bears leave their mothers and search for their own territories--a rite of passage that could lead one to a grocery store parking lot, for example.

According to district wildlife biologist Mike Dye, most black bears in the area are found on or near large undeveloped swaths of land like Marine Corps Base Quantico and the easement along the Rappahannock River.
If a bear is spotted in a residential area, it is usually lured there by the promise of food. Typically, bears look for bird feeders and garbage cans.

"They don't want to fight or cause problems with people," said Dye. "They're looking for easy meals."

If you don't want a bear in your backyard, remove outdoor food sources, such as pet food, and keep garbage in an enclosed location, such as a garage.

Without those attractions, bears usually move on, but if you want to scare one off, try making loud noises or even throwing things like golf balls. Best of all, Dye said, is a paintball gun, if local ordinances allow them in your neighborhood.

"Basically, you want to make them feel as unwelcome as possible," Dye said.

THE COYOTE

Unlike black bears, which are native to Virginia, coyotes are thought to have been introduced to the state by humans. Coyotes appeared on the West Virginia border in the 1950s, and complaints started popping up in western counties in the early '80s.

Despite their relatively recent arrival, coyotes are a highly adaptive species and are found across the country. Males can grow up to 45 pounds and range 15 to 28 miles from their home dens.

"The population is increasing," Dye said. "They're filling a niche. They are able to find food sources, and they're thriving."

Like black bears, coyotes don't normally pose a threat to humans. But they are considered a nuisance species under Virginia law because they sometimes kill domestic animals.

Coyotes are opportunistic eaters that feed primarily on rodents and rabbits, although they will eat berries and carrion. Again, removing food sources should keep them away from your home. Dye said the doglike animals are frequently struck and killed by cars.

"There isn't really a risk to coyotes being around," Dye said. "They're more interested in finding a meal than messing with people. They are able to make a good home in suburban areas, and they'll probably stick around."

hmm

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This is why most people I know that spend time in bear country carry a .45-70 slung over their shoulder rather than mess with handguns.
__________________Texas Rifleman

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The .45-70 would sure save all that screwing around.

/

Then he tucked the gun beneath the bear's chin. But it quit. Wyckoff, left-handed, said he had accidentally released the ammunition clip.

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I'm not too familiar with 1911 model pistols. Do they have a magazine disconnect safety, or can they still fire with the magazine removed?

It might not have made a difference, but I would hate to think he had a round in the chamber, but couldn't use it, because the magazine fell out.

When most people here .338, they automatically think of the .338 Lapua or the .338 Win mag. These two cartridges should literally destroy a shoulder of a +350lb black bear. I would wager the .338 used was a .338 Federal, which is basically a .308 Winchester necked up to a .338 caliber. It might have the muzzle energy of a 7mm Remington mag, but at 100yds, might fall around .30-06 power.

They say its good for black bear, but, personally, i would wait 30min -1hr if the first shot didnt drop the bear.

Lol, there was some guy that thought his light and comfortable .38 was the perfect backcountry handgun.

Personally I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 10mm with very hard and heavy bullets but then again we don't have grizzlies in our area. People are faulting the semi auto design saying, "I'd carry a revolver if dangerous game are involved" Whats the difference with a self defense piece? Are you saying a semi is good enough against a violent human attacker but not an animal? Chances are if the guy in the article had been jumped by a human he may have punched the mag release then too. I do agree a heavier CALIBER is in order in that instance and a double action 44 mag or better would be a better choice than a 45acp semi auto. But that is comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not too familiar with 1911 model pistols. Do they have a magazine disconnect safety, or can they still fire with the magazine removed?

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They can still fire but you only have one shot left with the mag removed.