I'm looking to get a shotgun before this fall, so I'm not in too much of a hurry. It will be used mostly for geese in the near future, but in the long future I might use it as w/ slugs for deer. These two models have interested me the most, and I'm wondering which is a better value to get if I want a gun for keeps. I can get a pardner for about $200 an 870 express about $300 (both walnut 28")
Is the 870 worth the cost over a pardner pump?
- Thread starter gondorian
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jlv08
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The Pardner Pump is a well made shotgun made from parts imported from Norinco in China and assembled in the US and is a very well built shotgun.
I have a 12 and 20 ga. and I bought both for less than $500.
I have, in my time, fixed quite a few shotguns and have been in the gizzards in enough of them to know quality when I see it and the Pardner Pump is an excellent field grade shotgun that is developing a strong following based on the merits of quality and shootability.
You will hear the Buy America rant from those who thumb their noses up to this shotgun. They can pack sand for all I care.
A good gun is a good gun no matter where it comes from and the Pardner Pump is way better than what Remington is offering in the Express model.
You could find an older Wingmaster but, contrary to what others say,
They don't come cheap.
I'd steer clear of a new Express due to all of the bad posts about rusting and chambers being sticky.
My Pardners will gobble anything I put in them and shoot and shoulder well.
Good luck in your descision!
I have a 12 and 20 ga. and I bought both for less than $500.
I have, in my time, fixed quite a few shotguns and have been in the gizzards in enough of them to know quality when I see it and the Pardner Pump is an excellent field grade shotgun that is developing a strong following based on the merits of quality and shootability.
You will hear the Buy America rant from those who thumb their noses up to this shotgun. They can pack sand for all I care.
A good gun is a good gun no matter where it comes from and the Pardner Pump is way better than what Remington is offering in the Express model.
You could find an older Wingmaster but, contrary to what others say,
They don't come cheap.
I'd steer clear of a new Express due to all of the bad posts about rusting and chambers being sticky.
My Pardners will gobble anything I put in them and shoot and shoulder well.
Good luck in your descision!
I got rid of my Pardner because it had a fixed choke. I will pay an extra 100 to 200$ for a shotgun of comparable quality, with a modified choke or modifiable. If I use it for HD, i don't want it to spread like a hunting load should, and I definitely want my SG to mix well when I'm shooting turkey, pheasant, quail or dove, and not shoot the same as if I'm shooting 00 Buckshot! I liked that pardner, never shot it though, and then realized fixed choke.
waterhouse
Member
They do in some parts of the country. I picked up another old fixed choke Wingmaster last month for $145. No rust, well oiled, but lots of bluing wear.
My previous one to that was $125, but that was about 18 months ago.
MAX100
Member
The Pardner Pump you are looking at comes with chokes and takes AccuChokes. It's a very well made and nice looking shotgun. It offers a little more for the money than a 870 Express.
Metal trigger guard
Machined Extractor & ejector
Nicer Recoil pad
Thicker steel receiver
5+1 capacity without the mag tube plug
All 870 parts will interchange accept the barrels.
They are a heck of a deal.
GC
Metal trigger guard
Machined Extractor & ejector
Nicer Recoil pad
Thicker steel receiver
5+1 capacity without the mag tube plug
All 870 parts will interchange accept the barrels.
They are a heck of a deal.
GC
jlv08
Member
I will state my humble opinion again, after addressing the issue of the occassional Wingmaster under $300.claims.
From my experiences here where shotguns are used exclusively for deer hunting, the venerable Wingmaster commands a premium as folks know whats going on these days with Remingtons Express.
I did find a fifties era 870 in as new condition that came out of an estate sale for $175.
That was RARE, I'll tell ya!
I turned around and sold it to a friend who is a collector as that was a nice example of a early 870. Old used, ratbox loose 870s are selling for more than a new Mossy or NEF (for comparison) these days.
We're talking new, field grade shotguns here and a Mossberg for those who buy American, or an NEF Pardner for those who are not as sensitive to the "Buy American" mantra are excellent choices.
Don't mean no harm, but good luck finding a deal on a pristeen 870.
At least go and compare the guns you are interested in and make Your descision,based on how it fits and feels to you.
From my experiences here where shotguns are used exclusively for deer hunting, the venerable Wingmaster commands a premium as folks know whats going on these days with Remingtons Express.
I did find a fifties era 870 in as new condition that came out of an estate sale for $175.
That was RARE, I'll tell ya!
I turned around and sold it to a friend who is a collector as that was a nice example of a early 870. Old used, ratbox loose 870s are selling for more than a new Mossy or NEF (for comparison) these days.
We're talking new, field grade shotguns here and a Mossberg for those who buy American, or an NEF Pardner for those who are not as sensitive to the "Buy American" mantra are excellent choices.
Don't mean no harm, but good luck finding a deal on a pristeen 870.
At least go and compare the guns you are interested in and make Your descision,based on how it fits and feels to you.
plumberroy
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I don't mind buying something made overseas what I do mind is copied designs made cheaper because the pay no heed to safety or enviromental conserns and are made by slave labor with the profits supporting the chinese military. I'm no tree hugger but I also don't believe in pouring poisonous waste in the creek out back. I have worked with people that have set up factories in china within six months most new machines will have the safety guards left off and the safety interlocks bypassed Some one gets hurt it's no big deal they keep them so poor there are 14 more standing outside waiting to work for a dime an hour.
My morals are worth more than saving a few dollars
Roy
Virginian
Member
Well said, good rant.
TEDDY
Member
china
I dont think they are copied designs,I think there are licensed.my thoughts are they are not slaves but they are poor.and anything they make is better than what they had.it also could be the leaders dont want to screw up there customers.the chinese poisoning toys shows they are behind us, as we painted every thing with lead paint not many yrs ago.those that cause trouble get dead real quick.our manufacturing is goping down the tubes.they cant even get students to take machine courses any more.
I dont think they are copied designs,I think there are licensed.my thoughts are they are not slaves but they are poor.and anything they make is better than what they had.it also could be the leaders dont want to screw up there customers.the chinese poisoning toys shows they are behind us, as we painted every thing with lead paint not many yrs ago.those that cause trouble get dead real quick.our manufacturing is goping down the tubes.they cant even get students to take machine courses any more.
MAX100
Member
Lighten up, the Remington group pays IAC to import them. The money goes to Remington and their money goes to IAC and they pay Hawk Ind in China to make them.
Get over it and move on. It's an excellent shotgun.
GC
Get over it and move on. It's an excellent shotgun.
GC
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sohcgt2
Member
Most of the cost in a pump shotgun is fit and finish, if your happy with the pardner you should get it. It may have thin spots in the blueing, it may be lower grade walnut, the stocks may not have fine checkering, but it will send shot downrange as well as any other pump gun.
The Pardner may be a decent shotgun, but in my area, I can could count at least 20 or so used Wingmaster, Expresss and Police/Special Purpose 870s on the racks in local pawn shops and used gun stores. I don't think I've ever seen one priced for more than $350 and many can be had for around $250 or less. With so many nice 870's availabe, I'd be hard pressed to buy a ChiCom knockoff.
In fact, I've seen 870's I've never heard of before. One shop has an 870 called the "Sportsman". It appears to be Remington's first attempt at a lower cost 870. The gun is blued, but the metal is not as nicely polished as a Wingmaster and I believe it had walnut, but was very plain. Compared to an Express however, it's very nice.
All these are 12 gauge guns however....I've been on the look out for a used 20 gauge for about 4 months now, but have not come across a single one.
In fact, I've seen 870's I've never heard of before. One shop has an 870 called the "Sportsman". It appears to be Remington's first attempt at a lower cost 870. The gun is blued, but the metal is not as nicely polished as a Wingmaster and I believe it had walnut, but was very plain. Compared to an Express however, it's very nice.
All these are 12 gauge guns however....I've been on the look out for a used 20 gauge for about 4 months now, but have not come across a single one.
MAX100
Member
H&R offers a nice 20Ga Pardner Pump. This is your chance to try one out so you will know what you are talking about when you speak about them.
GC
smoking357
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Find a 30" 870. You can respectably shoot clay games with it, and you can sell it for every bit of what you paid for it.
Outstanding gun.
Outstanding gun.
I actually like the fit and finish of the pardner about the same as the 870 and much better than the mossberg low end shotguns. Of the several that I have held at different stores the fit and finish was about the same and the pump handle felt really nice on the pardner. I'm wondering if y'all with more experience could inform me of how the longevity and reliability of the two compare because right now I get the feeling that the pardner pump is not any worse that the 870. When I buy things, guns especially, I like to set down my requirements and get the least expensive product that fulfills them.
As to stealing the design I regard it as a non issue since they are owned by THE SAME COMPANY(remington owns marlin which owns H&R/NEF and all of them are owned by Cerberus Capital Management)
As to stealing the design I regard it as a non issue since they are owned by THE SAME COMPANY(remington owns marlin which owns H&R/NEF and all of them are owned by Cerberus Capital Management)
jlv08
Member
Man,Plumberroy, am I supposed to feel guilty after that rant?
Gondorian, Like I said ,You will do fine with an NEF Pump.
They are over built and made of very good materials and made in concert with AMERICAN workers from Chinese manufactured parts.
I cannot believe how people can make an opinion about a gun, call it cheap Chinese junk, then go out and buy computers, stereos, Ipods, shoes , shirts pants, cooking utensils,toys yada,yada from China, and deride someone for being objective about a decent gun.
I have seen Chicom SKS rifles in the hands of more folks than I care to say and no one complains about them, or the Russian firearms that are all the rage these days.
It is contempt prior to investigation.
I am being totally honest and objective in my observation about the NEF, but I'll not waste my time defending my choice to people who display ignorance due to fear.
I've fixed enough guns to know what is quality and what isn't.
It's sad to see someone buy an Express, as I've seen, and have to turn around and send it back for repair and even then it may not function.
I've heard of only one problem with a Pardner on this board and it was fixed at the gun counter!
The NEF Pardner is an excellent CHOICE for those who want something better than what folks who talk them down will settle for which is JUNK in the 870 Express.
Brand loyalty is one thing but some of the views expressed on this board take the cake!!
Gondorian, Like I said ,You will do fine with an NEF Pump.
They are over built and made of very good materials and made in concert with AMERICAN workers from Chinese manufactured parts.
I cannot believe how people can make an opinion about a gun, call it cheap Chinese junk, then go out and buy computers, stereos, Ipods, shoes , shirts pants, cooking utensils,toys yada,yada from China, and deride someone for being objective about a decent gun.
I have seen Chicom SKS rifles in the hands of more folks than I care to say and no one complains about them, or the Russian firearms that are all the rage these days.
It is contempt prior to investigation.
I am being totally honest and objective in my observation about the NEF, but I'll not waste my time defending my choice to people who display ignorance due to fear.
I've fixed enough guns to know what is quality and what isn't.
It's sad to see someone buy an Express, as I've seen, and have to turn around and send it back for repair and even then it may not function.
I've heard of only one problem with a Pardner on this board and it was fixed at the gun counter!
The NEF Pardner is an excellent CHOICE for those who want something better than what folks who talk them down will settle for which is JUNK in the 870 Express.
Brand loyalty is one thing but some of the views expressed on this board take the cake!!
ohioarmedneutrality
Member
I like my Pardner Pump Protector 12 ga. Solid construction at a great price. Don't let the "Made in China" fool you.
Like jlv08 said, people buy all sorts of stuff from China and it doesn't seem to affect their ethics in those cases.
My wife has a Mossberg 500 which is real nice and was a good price also.
I don't think you can go wrong with either the Pardner or the 870 or even the Mossberg 500. It's really a matter of what you can/are willing to pay and what best fits your style.
Like jlv08 said, people buy all sorts of stuff from China and it doesn't seem to affect their ethics in those cases.
My wife has a Mossberg 500 which is real nice and was a good price also.
I don't think you can go wrong with either the Pardner or the 870 or even the Mossberg 500. It's really a matter of what you can/are willing to pay and what best fits your style.
plumberroy
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I never called them junk I said
Norinco is chinese military manufacturing complex I have a 22 rifle that was a gift that is a shooting S.O.B. It was a gift from some one close so I have kept it . I don't care how good a gun is. I'm not going to support the chinese military to have it
Roy
plumberroy
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double post it was early
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sohcgt2
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One of the freedoms those soldiers provided you is the option of buying products from around the globe.
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