Winchester '94 vs. Marlin 336

the high road response? coming from a guy that claims that all marlins are crap and beginner rifles? I've been shooting for a while now, and I don't claim to be the THR master of rimfire competition, nor do I care to beat my chest about how much I earn or how well I do in shoots, but I can tell you that my marlin is deadly accurate. Its more accurate than the shooter, and I can shoot sub moa at 100yd with it. Now, I don't understand what makes it a beginner rifle, or whats bad about it, other than that its more accurate than the shooter. This thread is becoming childish.

Get the gun that fits you the best, and that you can hold the best. There is no such thing as the best rifle. I can shoot better with my Rem 700 than can my brother with his model 70, my dad with his browning, or my friend with his wby, and my marlin has shot tighter groups than my rem. It'll hunt, it'll feed, and it'll reliably kill, what more could I want?

I disagree.

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Name it.

The Marlin M336 is based on the old M1893’s, which were improved to the M36, and finally to the M336. Wish I could have an old square bolt M36. The case colors on those were eye popping.

These rifles have proven themselves as rugged and reliable designs. They have been used… everywhere. Gunsmiths can tell you of functioning one hundred year old Marlins that to the best of their judgment, have never been cleaned!.

I prefer the Marlin design, much easier to drop the bolt and clean the action.

I have a “cheapie” Marlin M336. Birch wood. Everything else is forged and machined steel. The trigger is crisp. It shoots fine. It shoots within the capability of most hunters. I can put a scope on top without blocking access to the side port. Rounds eject without knocking into the scope base.

I don't like the microgroove barrel. Much rather have a barrel that is cast bullet friendly.

It is not a target weapon, but it will shoot inside a rack grade Garand.

Was the Marlin 336 issued in WWII? Nope, but the Winchester '94 was. Hmmmm.

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They were so hard up for guns in Jan 42, that troops were training with broomsticks, cardboard cut outs for tanks, and "machine guns" made from two by fours.

My Dad remembered the Army called back all the Jr RTOC 03 drill rifles, fitted them with full length firing pins, and sent those to the front line troops.

If offered the choice of meeting the Japanese with a Broomstick or a lever action, which one would you choose?

Quote:
There is no such thing as the best rifle.

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I disagree.

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What's to disagree with? It's axiomatic -- would you choose a .22LR for hunting Cape Buffalo? Or a .458 Lott for hunting squirrels? Would you use a Holland and Holland double rifle for prairie dogs, or a 12-lb varmit rifle for Dall Sheep?

Well, I'm not sure that good groups from one particular gun really add much to the debate, but they can't hurt.

My 336 was built in 1975. It's in .35 Rem. and I added a 1.25-4x scope, mounted far forwards on a "Scout" mount.

I've tried a bunch of loads with several bullet weights, and all the results have been good. Probably the two best are these:

180 Gr. Speer Jacketed Flat Point over Bl-C2:

The group measures under 1.1" center-to-center.

200 Gr. Hornady Jacketed Round Nose over Win. 748:

That one opened all the way up to almost 1-1/4."

But the cool thing is that I have loads for bullets up to 220 gr., and using 4 or 5 different powders that all group almost that well.

And the really interesting thing is that I've only owned this rifle about a year. I have no idea what treatment or care this rifle saw for the first 33 years of its life. I bought it off a used rack, a bit dirty, scarred stock, and dusty from lack of use. All I did was clean it up, oil the stock, add the mount and scope, and spend a (very) little time working up some loads.

So, when I read that a Marlin 336 is a "beginner's rifle" makes me think the chip on the OP's shoulder is larger than his understanding.

But, as always, Your Mileage May Vary.

-Sam

I'm a Marlin guy I've got a 1970 something "Western Auto" Marlin 336. It has the cheaper furniture on it. I've had that gun since 1995 (15 years old), it was my first rifle, and I got a few deer with it with iron sights.

Nowadays, she sports a 3-9x variable "Wal mart" scope, not sure of the brand name, it's worn off a long time ago (maybe tasco?). With the scope, I can shoot a 2.5" group (20 rounds) at 100 yards while standing (See Attached Picture). I can shoot about a 4" group (20 rounds) iron sighted.

I bench fired it at 100yds once, and got a sub-1" group with 6 rounds with the scope on. I'm not much for bench firing

I can't say anything about the Winchester, never owned or shot one, but even if I got my hands on one, nothing could ever replace the memories I have with that old Marlin, and that keeps it in the top spot in my book

Any Marlin is a better gun in my opinion.

Though I prefer the Winchester Model 94 over the Marlin Model 336 for purely subjective reasons (mostly because imo no rifle/carbine handles as well as a 94), I strongly recommend mounting a good receiver sight (as evidenced by the Williams FoolProof or the equivalent Lyman) on any lever-action rifle. A peep sight is a far faster sighting implement than any factory provided "conventional" iron arrangement.

Since part of this chest pounding debate has been "which rifle was issued to the military", I'm surprised than the OP didn't mention that thousands and thousands of 94's (may have been in the 100,000's, but I may be wrong on that) were sold to the Russian military early last century. There were probably more 94's in Ruskies hands than Americans, at least before the Commies came along and took them away.

I only have one 30-30 and it's a Winchester. Not because I prefer it, but because I inherited it. It's a post 64 and has a color case hardened receiver and gold plated loading gate and saddle ring. It's like new and I doubt that it's had more than a couple of boxes of ammo through it. It's purty, but being more into function than looks I installed a Lyman receiver sight. Besides, the peep doesn't really detract from the looks.

I don't have a Marlin, but it seems to be a more robust design with a more solid lockup and thus potentially more accurate. It also has a better scope mounting ability. But I don't really have enough experience with either gun to say one is 'better' than the other. I do prefer the looks of the 94, and it has a certain nostalgia factor.

But, what do I know? My favorite guns are scope sighted AR 15s!

Ooops! May have been wrong on the Russian 94s. I know they bought a bunch of 95, but I thought I read somewhere that they got many 94s too. Can't seem to find any confirmation of that tonight. Oh well. Chalk it up to another senior moment!

Jobob the russians did buy a lot of 95s. I have read the the mexicans used a bunch of winny 94s in the mexican revolution. IIRC Pancho Villa was assinated with a 30-30. He was killed in 1923 while riding in a dodge automobile.

The mexicans also used mauser bolt actions in 7x57. There is also a monument of Pancho Villa riding a horse and waving a 94 winchester over his head.

I love my 336. I compared it to the Winchester back-to-back and I liked the 336 allot more. It seems like a much more solid build.

These comparisons are never really very honest.

Winchester people only include pre-64 guns in the comparison. Those cost around $400 to 600.

You can get a Marlin for $250 to $350 in most any pawn shop or gunshow.

These comparison's are not worthy as they are more based on emotions than actual fact. Ask yourself, what do I think makes a better gun?

Ease of cleaning, from shooting: Marlin

Ease of cleaning, from dropping it in the mud: Winchester (you do not have to take it apart, just open the breach and drown it in a lake or river the junk will come out because it is so open, can't do this with a Marlin).

Optical enhancement options (scopes): Marlin, the AE Winchester can be scoped, but....then again adding a scope takes away from the original intent of both guns, being saddle guns. It also makes them harder to carry day in, day out traveling up and down mountain and such.

Action Strength: Winchester, I know I'll get arguments, but a buttress block is always stronger than a sheer. On lock up a Winchester's block spreads the bolt force across the entire locking bolt not just partially like the Marlin. It is one of the reasons the Winchester can handle higher pressures (please go to Leverguns.com and check out some of Paco's articles). You can really, really upgrade the .444 in the Winchester to accomplish a lot more than in the Marlin.

Accuracy: a toss up, but I've placed or won more competitions with my Winchesters than my Marlins...but that might be because of the way I shoulder them.

Quality: a toss up, very late Winchesters and pre-64's Winchesters are probably better, whereas the Marlins up until recently ( I have two newer ones, both 1895's and I had to send each back twice) are darn good too.

Personal preference: Winchester...to ME, they come to the shoulder faster and they carry a little easier.

That's my .02

A good lookin' lever action is like a good lookin' woman. They come in a few different flavors. They all look good to me.

Clint C said:

This was sparked off of another thread and I didn't want to take over that thread so here are some of my thoughts.

Marlin 336, I can't really stand Marlin these days. Maybe not a bad hunting rifle (Marlin 336), but in my opinion the Winchester is on another level. When they were designed they were for the great west, and in my opinion the Winchester could stand the outdoors and abuse a lot better than a Marlin 336. The Winchester has a all sealed up action when it is ready to shoot. You could bury the Winchester in any terrain pick it up, dump the barrel and shoot it. Cross rivers, deserts, jungles, wastelands, I just don't see the Marlin doing that. The Winchester is just a better more reliable and for a lack of better word survival rifle over Marlin. If you droped your Marlin in the sand, river, mud, could you guarantee it would cycle, I know the Winchester would. Forget about scopes, they are for people with bad eye sight. If you were fighting indians in the old days which would you have rather had? Maybe I am just judging this one on what the rifles were designed for. I know people are alway talking about SHTF Rifles ( which I don't think I will see in my life time) so which one would you want in a SHTF scenario? The Winchester '94 has also seen more combat than the Marlin 336 why do you all think that is? Was the Marlin 336 issued in WWII? Nope, but the Winchester '94 was. Hmmmm.

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Let me start by saying I prefer the '94 myself, but for one reason; I think they are cooler. They have the right Western look.

Now on an objective level, just about everything favors the Marlin. The Winchester might have a slight edge in quality - if you're making a comparison between the Marlin 336 and the pre-64 Winchester. Guess what - they haven't made the pre-64 Winchester 94 for 47 years. The post-64s are not nearly as well made. Another point in the Marlin's favor: They're still making them. No, I don't count Made in Japan $1000 nostalgia driven replicas as still making 94's.

Now let's take a look at the OPs arguments. This is a classic case of what I call "conclusion driven logic"; forming your conclusion first and then making the logic fit.



Point 1: The "sealed action". I can't believe this is really as big a problem as it's made out to be, but maybe the OP drops his gun in the mud more than I do. In the real world the Marlin is better sealed than the Winchester.

Point 2: "Scopes are for people with bad eyesight". The Marlin is far easier to scope than most 94s. So if the gun you want to win is at a disadvantage, just pretend the criteria doesn't matter!

Point 3: "Fighting Indians". By 1894 the fighting Indians thing was pretty much done. Even if it were relevant, there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between the two.

Point 4: "SHTF scenario": Ditto

Point 5: "The Winchester was used in combat in WWII". Somebody, somewhere may have used a 94 in WWII in the Canadian Home Guard or similar, but to try and stretch things to say that the 94 is better because it was an issued combat weapon is sheer, utter nonsense.

I've got experience with both Marlins and Winchesters. Both are great for various reasons, and both have their downsides. I love my Winchester 94 .30-30, and it is a great gun in terms of looks, quality, accuracy and handling. However, compared to a Marlin, the action isn't as smooth as a 336's. It's easier for me to cycle the lever on a Marlin than my Winchester, but the price tag, to me, is what really stands out. I bought my 94 in 2003 brand new for 270 bucks. The Marlins I see now-a-days are 400-600 dollars. Another thing is, to my knowledge, Winchester never made a stainless 94, and I would love to get my hands on a stainless Marlin .45-70.

Okay, time for me to chime in. First: I own both a Winchester 30-30 & 35 Rem I also own 3 Marlins. The rifle I take to the woods to "Kill" deer is the Marlin. If I'm just going out to the range, I take one of the Win.. I love them both, but if I had to "fight" with one of the it would be the Marlin. By far the superior firearm.

If you look at the pictures of Texas Rangers, Outlaws and Mexican revolutionaries, you'll see that leverguns of both brands saw action in skirmishes. Don't know how they fared but leverguns have seen plenty of duty in Law Enforcement and Border Patrols well into the 20th century.

I suspect they did the job just fine.

Wrongo posting

Scopes are for people who can't shoot

shep, here,s one deer you would not have gotten with out a scope. the range was not that far but the cover was so thick that the window for the shot was very small and the deer was moving away from me,with no chance for another shot. with out a scope on my rifle i would have been telling every one at camp i saw a big one but got no shot. but the rem pump with a 2x7 leupold came thru again. eastbank.

I have owned as many as 11 Marlin lever actions and 5 Winchesters. I now have 7 Marlins and no Winchesters. The rifle cartridge Marlins of various types (1881, 1893, 1895, 1936, 36, 336) are all excellent performers and easier to clean, maintain and repair (even in the field). The pistol cartridge models (1889, 1894) were and are excellent and better than the Winchester 1892. The 94 Marlins made today are little changed from those made in 1894.

I have had the misfortune of owning 2 of the 94 Winnies in pistol cartridge calibers (45 and 44) and they were AWFUL!!!!! Then again the 38-55 (made in 79) and 30-30 (1906) models did what they were supposed to do, but the Marlins do it so much better.

It's OK to like what you like but based on EXPERIENCE, as many of the posters have stated, will usually lead you to prefer (and love) the Marlins!

That my opinion and I know I'm correct!!!!
s

streakr said:

I have owned as many as 11 Marlin lever actions and 5 Winchesters. I now have 7 Marlins and no Winchesters. The rifle cartridge Marlins of various types (1881, 1893, 1895, 1936, 36, 336) are all excellent performers and easier to clean, maintain and repair (even in the field). The pistol cartridge models (1889, 1894) were and are excellent and better than the Winchester 1892. The 94 Marlins made today are little changed from those made in 1894.

I have had the misfortune of owning 2 of the 94 Winnies in pistol cartridge calibers (45 and 44) and they were AWFUL!!!!! Then again the 38-55 (made in 79) and 30-30 (1906) models did what they were supposed to do, but the Marlins do it so much better.

It's OK to like what you like but based on EXPERIENCE, as many of the posters have stated, will usually lead you to prefer (and love) the Marlins!

That my opinion and I know I'm correct!!!!
s

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So therefore you acknowledge lack of experience??? Like I said earlier though, it is personal preference, unfortunately your choice is more "clunky" and is sensitive to custom loading a Marlin's action does not accomodate slightly larger COL's. This is especially true in the pistol calibers.

The pistol cartridge models (1889, 1894) were and are excellent and better than the Winchester 1892.

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Do you mind if I post this at the "Leverguns.com" forum, it would be real interesting. I would guess from a comment like that you are joking....correct???