Is there a gun you WON'T buy becasue of its history?

The only gun that wouldn't be allowed in my house, is the one the punk just stole from my neighbor or his neighbor. Remember,,,,the human factor caused the atrocities, not the weapons.




As long as I breathe, I will be free.

A lot of the tools and what ever made in China are made in forced labour camps or prisons also.
We all have the right to different ideas that's why the US has the Consitutuion worded the way it is. I am not really superstitious but I do have a sense of right and wrong when it comes to some objects. Buying any milsurplus object and not just a gun could have been used for what ever purpose it was used for. I for one bought a Reichsmark bill and store it in on purpose in my Lodge bible since they sent us to concentration camps also. Sometimes we can use these objects for a better purpose.

I don't fetishize murder or evil. Nazi guns, Bolshevik guns, or other guns belonging to famous killers have precisely zero allure to me. Dillinger's Remington derringer recently sold for a breathtaking sum. To me, that gun would have been worth no more than any other Remington derringer in the same condition.
Further, preserving weapons used by famous killers is not preserving history. If every Mauser and every Mosin-Nagant disappeared from American gunsafes tonight, it would not cause the memories of Nazi and Bolshevik horrors to disappear. They carry no guilt, but neither do they carry any stories

My great uncle had a S&W Triple Lock .44 special that a neighbor use to kill a federal revenue agent in 1931. Uncle Ben shot and enjoyed that pistol for over 50 years and it held no stigma.

My great uncle had a S&W Triple Lock .44 special that a neighbor use to kill a federal revenue agent in 1931.

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NICE!!!

Quote:
...somethings in the past are just to potent to ignore.

If we toss out all the relics, aren't we doing just that?

What better way to remember history than to maintain the artifacts?

It wouldn't be kept to celebrate the Holocaust you know.

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The Concentration Camps are some of the biggest tourist spots in Germany. Are all the visitor racist?

If the artifacts aren't kept up, history will be forgotten. The guns had nothing to do with the decesion making. They didn't fire without be forced to do so. I have quite a few German (Nazi marked) and Japanese firearms and memorabilia. Don't know what their role was in the war. Yes I'd love to know, but that likelihood is slim, and it wouldn't change a thing (other than it's story).

I am of German ancestory with a little French, Swiss, and Native American. I own American arms, Russian arms, French arms, British arms and German arms. All of which were used against my "people". I hold no ill will to them.

I am American by birth. I own those listed above, as well as Italian arms and Japanese Arms. All (with exception of Brit. and French) were used against my family and countrymen. I hold no ill will to them.

I am a carpenter by trade. My 28 oz Estwing has gotten my thumb many time over the 12+ years I've owned it. I hold no ill will to it. I have saws that have cut people, and nail guns that have shot people. I hold no ill will to them.

A tool is just that, a tool. It cannot do anything without a person directing it to do it. If guns with history aren't your thing, so be it. But many milsurps have blood on them. They may not be for you. (Which is good. That just leaves more for me.)

Wyman

I wouldn't buy a Nazi gun.

Nothing against the guns, just not a major fan of the guns from most of those places from that era.

Maybe something mechanically significant, or one in great shape for a great price. Just like any other gun, but if a seller tells me "this one was never issued, but this one's in perfect shape and shot old men in the back of the head" I'm... Well, really, I'm going to steer clear of that seller. But I'd also rather have the unissued one. For the same price (or far less, knowing dealers), why not?

No ill will toward the weapon, but I'd rather buy a gun despite it being used for ill will and never brag about it, than buy one because of it.

im iffy on buying a nazi weapon being polish i had alot of family lost in the war and alot of family that was in auschwitz as well as in the british military polish military and the polish underground

but at th esame time i feel so connected to the war that i find im ofton drawn to these weapons

Food for thought: If being anywhere where atrocities (your definition of "atrocity" may vary based on size of an event) occurred bothers you, then you really can only limit yourself to living in small portions of the earth. Heck, you could argue that much of North America is an "atrocity zone" because of the way Native Americans were treated by early settlers, then how slaves were treated for about 200 years, plus 100 more years of Jim Crow and Segregation.

As long as their are humans, there is evil, and there are tools used for that evil, and places for that evil to occur.

Would I own a Mauser Kar98k knowing it was used by Nazis? Probably, as long as the rifle is of good quality. If I found out it WAS used in during the Holocaust, it'd bother me for a bit, but I'm sure I'd get over it after putting it to good use.

So much for political threads on this forum.

I started to write, tonight, re this subject, then dumped it.

I thought this was the high road.

Someone please explain.

Apparently I don't have the magic decoder ring.


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I have passsed on old Guns I would have loved to own, where the individual example at hand somehow had a 'vibe' which was not a good fit for me.

I have bought old Guns which were basically unremarkable, but whose ineffable 'vibe' was somehow very appealing.


Same with old Cars, Tools, Machinery of all sorts...every one of which is an individual Artefact, with a unique History and unique prior ownership(s)...however unknown those maybe.


On principle, I have shied away from anything 'communist'...but that's about it far as politics entering into it.

Suicide guns make me cringe...I know that the gun had nothing to do with it but I don't want to know about it. I've passed up a good deal or two because of this. I also wouldn't want a gun used in a murder because I want to admire and enjoy the gun and not think about some poor guy or gal that got their ticket punched by some miscreant.

IMHO the guys that collect bloodstain damaged guns have issues-- but they can do as they wish...

I am sure out of all the millsurps and 1911's I own that one or more has probably been used in taking a life and this doesn't bug me because I don't know. Nazi guns don't excite me but don't bother me. Since the Nazi's lost the guns are trophies of Good and I do believe we should never forget the evil they did. I've seen a few Israeli guns where the waffenampts were overstamped with the star of David always thought they were the best example of a gun as a tool.

Basically buy what you like but I'll pass on known suicide and murder guns. For a short time I couldn't pick up a 12GA pump because a good friend did himself in with one. It wasn't the pump but the thoughts of my buddies ultimate bad choice that they brought to mind. As time passed I was able to get past it and shoot my pumps. I'm not giving guns any mystical ties but rather saying that objects can remind us of things that make us uncomfortable.

I'm curious, over in White County there is an old building where a man hanged himself in the 40's. Said building is now used to store & sort potatoes for market. Would you have problems eating the potatoes knowing that bit of history? In Cass County there is a barn where a county sheriff was shot to death in the 30's. Would you have problems eating beef from the cattle that live in that barn now?

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There's a big difference between what you're describing and an object that somebody used to end their own life.

had a S&W Triple Lock .44 special that a neighbor use to kill a federal revenue agent in 1931.

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Hell, in my family we'd make that gun a talisman and love it. But then, my family and I are also from Kentucky.

heck, if it's for sale, e-mail me!

Deus Machina said:

I wouldn't buy a Nazi gun.

Nothing against the guns, just not a major fan of the guns from most of those places from that era.

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I agree. I have so many times seen wonderful deals on Nazi marked guns. I don't want them. I'm not Jewish, but so many friends of mine are. Besides the Jewish factor, so many other people I know and grew up with fought them. It was evil, it was pure evil, and no matter how you try to justify that "an inanimate object has no values," that's a lie. It's still a symbol, and it was made to serve an end.

I looked at a Nazi Walther P-38 just last month for a song - I could have made $400 on it in a week. It was not worth it to me to have it in my hands or in my home.

If your ethics aren't as strong, go for it! Some of us who like and love guns still have the capacity to think.

although my head agrees with those who say "no" (firearms are just inanimate objects), my heart says "yes, somewhere, I draw the line"

I don't know where that line is, cannot name offhand some specific make/model I would not own due to such historical reasons, just that there is a line there somewhere

firearms are inanimate objects, but people are not
people are not just "thinking machines"

extreme example - flags are just inanimate objects, too, just cloth
but it will be a cold, cold day in %## when you see a Nazi flag on my front porch

they belong in museums, so people do not forget
they do not belong on my porch or on my living room wall
how it is
I don't have to rationalize it

most of the inanimate objects in our lives are also "symbols", large or small, fair or foul, for better or worse
that ring on milady's finger is just an object, but it means a whole lot more than that to me

Hi Paintballdude,

im iffy on buying a nazi weapon being polish i had alot of family lost in the war and alot of family that was in auschwitz as well as in the british military polish military and the polish underground

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Just to play devils advocate here, what if you found a 'Nazi' weapon that had been used by a member of the Polish Underground? I'm not trying to cheapen your beliefs, I'm truly curious of the limits of your reactions.

Hi Nwilliams,

There's a big difference between what you're describing and an object that somebody used to end their own life.

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In the case of the suicide, the rope was tied a rafter making the building itself the object used for suicide as it was used as the scaffolding. Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative only trying to understand your POV.

but it will be a cold, cold day in %## when you see a Nazi flag on my front porch

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So am I racist because I have a (original) Nazi Swastika Flag hanging in my gunroom, behind the German WWII rifles? What about the Rising Sun behind the Arisakas? Confederate Battle Flag behind the (original) 2 band Enfield?

There is a lot more to it than just having it. If the person carries the same hate that the flag/gun represented in it's past, that is a completely different story. Just owning and preserving a part of a dark time period is nothing but preserving history. It is education for the future generations.

I see you're from GA also "oldfool". Did you live here during the fight for changing the state flag? The old flag showed rememberance to the state's history. Many people were denouncing that fact, and calling it a racist flag, and hate filled. Those same people (IMO) were turning their back on their own history.

It doesn't matter what side you ancestors were on, it's still a part of your history.

Wyman

Please expand on how displaying that flag preserves history or educates a fellow. From my POV, absent you there to verbally explain your little display, the whole shebang is going to be interpreted differently by every viewer. The flag and the guns tell no stories. A person unacquainted with the evils of the Nazis cannot look at your display and learn anything from it.
War relics do not preserve history. A P-38 can tell you nothing about the Holocaust. A Mosin-Nagant can tell you nothing about the Holodomor. People preserve history in their memories and their writings.
What matters about the relics is your attitude in having it. Are you keeping that flag to memorialize the Holocaust or to gloat over it? Do you get tingly over Dillinger's derringer because he was a famous murderer?
Once again, all these guns could disappear this instant and the memories would still be here.

John Dillinger was not 'a famous murderer'...he was a notorious Armed Robber, famous for NOT murdering or killing anyone.

People were killed as part of his criminal activity; he shares responsibility. Make all the excuses for him you want and he'll still be famous scumbag.

im iffy on buying a nazi weapon being polish i had alot of family lost in the war and alot of family that was in auschwitz as well as in the british military polish military and the polish underground

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Just to play devils advocate here, what if you found a 'Nazi' weapon that had been used by a member of the Polish Underground? I'm not trying to cheapen your beliefs, I'm truly curious of the limits of your reactions.

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Nazi weapons were just following orders.

Once again, all these guns could disappear this instant and the memories would still be here.

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(In my best kid voice), "Daddy (or Grandaddy), what is this?" While the child points at some old relic.

With nothing there to prompt the childs curiosity, they question will never be asked. The child will never learn. And history will soon be forgotten.

Case in point, history was taken more for granted in the late 19th Century and early 20th than it is now. Many relics from the Civil War found there way into wells and buried any number of other places. Many of the "hand me down" stories were never told, and thus lost forever. Out of all my ancestors that had a part in the Civil War (on both sides), the only personal story I've been told was that my great-great grandfather, at the age of 10, was taken prisoner of war by Sherman's army as they headed north through SC. He was suposedly spying on them at their camp, a couple miles behind the line at that particular battle.

Another case in point. Look at the history books of today. Everything says that the Civil War (I prefer to refer to it as the War of Northern Aggression) was being fought over slavery. Absolutely false. South Carolina (followed by other Southern States) seceded from the Union because they thought that the Federal Gov't was overstepping it's bounds into what the States saw as something that should be governed by the States. You'll never hear that in a high school classroom. And rarely hear it in a college classroom.

(The same thing is going on now between state gov'ts nationwide and the Fed. gov't. Search it, there is a thread here on THR about it.)

I do not have an ounce of hate, for any group as a whole, in my body. But I will display relics from the past.And anybody that wants to learn the true history (not the PC correct garbage coming from schools today), I will teach it to them.

Wyman

South Carolina (followed by other Southern States) seceded from the Union because they thought that the Federal Gov't was overstepping it's bounds into what the States saw as something that should be governed by the States.

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"Something", which was....

I actually think that the states of the South had every right to secede and form their own confederacy. Were that "something", something other than slavery, there would have been zero real support in the North, for stopping them from doing so.

I've always found the guerillas from Missouri, who had little if anything to do with slavery, to be more sympathetic characters than their opponents from Kansas, though.

Lincoln, who sent men to kill and be killed in order "to preserve the Union", and specifically NOT to free slaves, was, himself, a villain, though -- slavery notwithstanding.

All told, I think we're best off not re-fighting our great-great-grandfathers' wars -- of course that includes the PC crap as well.