armoredman
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earl, mags are avilable relatively cheap, look a czechpoint-usa.com. nailoth, have a gunsmith do the work, all good then. wink, sorry your experiance wasn't as good - was it a D-technic build, or the Century re work version?
What is the big deal with the Vz. 58?
- Thread starter Hammerhead6814
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nalioth
Member
Not me, dude, you need to talk to fuji.armoredman said:
fugi
Member
they're not $60, they're $13. that's less than a lot of AR-15 mags or SKS mags. and SKS mags only work in SKSs. if you want to have ten mags on hand for your one rifle holding 300 rounds, that's only $130 in mags. not a significant investment.
armoredman
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Sorry nailoth, my bad.
Wes Janson
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On the other hand, the barrel life is a much more important issue, and it's a serious pain to change out barrels on a Vz-58.
In my experience, most AK malfunctions are feeding-related rather than ejection. If the brass isn't ejecting out of the weapon, and the ejector and extractor are good, then the reason is generally because the rifle is short-stroking (for whatever reason). Doesn't matter one bit how big the ejection port is if there isn't enough energy in the system.
AK and Vz-58 sights are virtually identical. If there's a difference in accuracy, it's not due to sights. In my estimation, there's not much of a gap in accuracy between a Vz-58 and a decent AK..it's just that there are literally millions of sub-standard AKs floating around out there that can't shoot for crap.
Not many people would say that there's only "marginal" differences in ergonomics between a WASR-10 and a Vz-58. As for aftermarket options, when someone raises that question I always have to ask-just what is it that you really want to add? People already offer quad rails, collapsible stocks, scope mounts, pistol grips, and a dozen other useless geegaws for the Vz-58...what else is missing? And just what sort of $100 SKS do you own that's outshooting the Vz?
armoredman
Member
Hey, I resemble that remark!
Actually first rifle I owned that I put any gee gaws on, none of the others were worth it.I will have to take the vZ out with the Yugo SKS, (man, it's dusty, never gets shot anymore...), and see how close they are off the bench.
fugi
Member
if anyone is going to try comparing accuracy between the VZ, AK and SKS, it'd be prudent to use something other than lacquered wolf ammo because that may be the limiting factor and not the capability of the rifle.
armoredman
Member
Easy done - I reload.
Hammerhead6814 said:
I joined the Vz.58 owner's club today with a NIB Military Sporter model so I guess I'll be finding out for myself real soon. I was sold on the idea a few weeks back and started looking online to see what was available. fugi's Vz vs. AK comparison pushed me over the edge. That tilting breech block really appeals to me along with the fact that the bolt neither rotates nor tilts.
I've never owned any rifle chambered for 7.62x39mm so it'll be interesting to start reloading for that caliber. I already learned that 7.62x39 bullets aren't .308 .... who knew?!! I bought 4lb of VihtaVuori N120 last year because it had been sitting on a shelf at a local gun shop for months (along with 2lb of N130). I didn't need either powder but the owner let me have it for a lot less than it usually sells for so I bought it all. This afternoon, before buying the Vz., I checked VihtaVuori's reloading guide and they list a couple of loads for 123gr and 125gr bullets using N120. Finally I have a use for that powder ... about 1,200 uses based on the load data!
If someone would be so kind as to recommend the "best" magazines available that would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking on the czechpoint-usa website and there are a number of options.
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nalioth
Member
There are no "best" magazines.1858 said:
They're either Czech milsurp (used) or Czech milsurp (unissued). So long as they're not bent, either works great.
Hammerhead6814
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So then, how much do these run on average? Finding them from online dealers my lowest price was over eight hundred dollars. You could buy a Saiga .308 22 inch barrel for that price.
fugi
Member
http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-58-rifles/sa-vz-58-military-folder/
their rise in popularity has lead to a rise in the price the market will bear. I built mine for $400. now parts kits are $250 and receivers $300. for $400 it's a damn good rifle, for $850, it's still a good rifle. I've seen them sell for $1k.
their rise in popularity has lead to a rise in the price the market will bear. I built mine for $400. now parts kits are $250 and receivers $300. for $400 it's a damn good rifle, for $850, it's still a good rifle. I've seen them sell for $1k.
Shear_stress
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Please look at the options before replying. There are also mags with U.S.-made springs, followers and baseplates needed for compliance purposes and ten round double stacks for the California market.
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Hammerhead6814 said:
I'm happy with the price I paid ... $720 NIB for a CZ Vz.58. I'll have to pay $30 for shipping so that's $750 total.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135840235
I'm still wading through the 922R compliance "stuff" trying to figure out what I have and don't have, what I can and can't do, but I have to admit I'm excited about this purchase. The safest route is to buy either the surplus or refinished 30-round magazines with US made parts for $18 or $24 respectively.
nalioth
Member
He asked for "best" magazines.Shear stress said:
I do not consider replacing metal with plastic (mags with US components) parts a move toward "best". The plastic parts are cheap and cheesy and nowhere near as durable as their milsurp counterparts.
He does not indicate he's in a ban state, so again, IMHO, cutting up a mag for the purposes of Kalifornicating it is also not something I'd mark up in the "best" category.
The easiest way to 922r compliance is to get a US made gas piston and a US made pistol grip. At that point, you can use any magazine - regardless of it's domestic content count.1858 said:
Shear_stress
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Quoting Nalioth:
And you said there weren't any.
Now you say there are. By the way, those mags with the dreaded plastic parts are what Czechpoint ships with their rifles. Combined with the three U.S. parts in the FCG, those in the magazine are what allows for 922r compliance.
And you said there weren't any.
Now you say there are. By the way, those mags with the dreaded plastic parts are what Czechpoint ships with their rifles. Combined with the three U.S. parts in the FCG, those in the magazine are what allows for 922r compliance.
nalioth, you've obviously got a lot of experience with the Vz.58 as does Shear_stress since both of your names pop up on Vz THR threads going back a few years. I'm going through the 922R list below trying to figure out what parts the Vz.58 has.
922R compliance - qualifying 922R parts on the CZ Vz.58 shown in blue, US parts indicated in parentheses)
1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (made by D-Technik so still foreign)
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers (*US)
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears (*US)
(14) Disconnectors (*US)
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers (*US)
(20) Floorplates (*US)
I think that the Vz.58 has 16 of the 20 qualifying parts listed (and shown in blue) so please correct me if I've made any errors. It's my understanding that a maximum of 10 of the 16 parts can be foreign so do you know which parts CZ swaps out for compliance? The D-Technik receiver is made in Czechoslovakia right so isn't that still foreign or does the fact that the magazine well is milled in the US make it a US part?
Added in edit: Shear_stress confirmed that the barrel extension is NOT included on the list. Therefore, the CZ Vz.58 has 15 of the 20 qualifying parts. Five parts are US made meaning that it meets 922R compliance with 10 foreign parts out of the 15.
Thanks.
922R compliance - qualifying 922R parts on the CZ Vz.58 shown in blue, US parts indicated in parentheses)
1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (made by D-Technik so still foreign)
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers (*US)
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears (*US)
(14) Disconnectors (*US)
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers (*US)
(20) Floorplates (*US)
I think that the Vz.58 has 16 of the 20 qualifying parts listed (and shown in blue) so please correct me if I've made any errors. It's my understanding that a maximum of 10 of the 16 parts can be foreign so do you know which parts CZ swaps out for compliance? The D-Technik receiver is made in Czechoslovakia right so isn't that still foreign or does the fact that the magazine well is milled in the US make it a US part?
Added in edit: Shear_stress confirmed that the barrel extension is NOT included on the list. Therefore, the CZ Vz.58 has 15 of the 20 qualifying parts. Five parts are US made meaning that it meets 922R compliance with 10 foreign parts out of the 15.
Thanks.
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Shear_stress
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Let's see. Czechpoint swaps out the trigger, sear and disconnector as well as the mag base and follower to bring the "foreign-made" total from 15 to 10. If you want to use un-modded surplus mags you need two additional U.S. parts. Nalioth is correct about the U.S. made pistol grip and piston.
Shear_stress
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The barrel extension doesn't figure in to the parts count, perhaps because it is permanently attached and so is considered to be part of the barrel.
Shear_stress, thanks very much ... I really appreciate members like you and nalioth that are willing to share your knowledge. Time to order some magazines, a piston and a grip. I may even change the buttstock to a collapsible AR variant since I seem to have a bunch of those lying around.
Shear_stress
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No worries. Hope you enjoy the Vz58 as much as I have!
As for the buttstock, you might try the regular folding stock. It's a cinch to install and makes the rifle incredibly compact.
As for the buttstock, you might try the regular folding stock. It's a cinch to install and makes the rifle incredibly compact.
Shear_stress said:
I'm not really a fan of the folding stock but may order one just to have the option. CzechPoint, Inc doesn't mention if the piston is made in the US and the black synthetic pistol grip that they sell is made in Israel.
http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/produ...cessories/vz-58-parts-and-accessories/piston/
I'll look for an AR15 stock adapter and take a long look at the PRI rail system for more options.
armoredman
Member
The magazine bodies are NOT US made. BTW, if you live in a state that requires hi caps to be made prior to the 94 ban, ALL vZ-58 30 round mags are manufactured prior to that, and proof is on file at Czechpoint-USA. Czechpoint has great deals on mags, go for it. I am happy as a clam with my SA vZ-58!
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