642 Club Part Deux

DA said:

Todays Reading Assignment
http://www.snubtraining.com/pdfs/WhyRevolversBeatAutos.pdf

Interesting Read.

Why Revolver Beats Auto.

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Man, that is a great little article. I really enjoyed reading it.

(Wonder if it's made the rounds as a thread in general revolvers subforum ... (?). Probably so, but if not, it should.)

The author makes several very good points, some of which I've considered before,
some of which I haven't (like #'s 23 - less likely to AD - and #25 (safer after "an incident").

One of my favorites (and incidentally relevant to our friend, Lagni, who is just starting to shoot handguns):

5. Ya seen one, ya seen ‘em all. That
is, training on any revolver is training
on all revolvers, big or little, large caliber
or small caliber, and any brand.
The manual of arms is the same (or virtually
so) and you are instantly familiar
with the weapon, even if you’ve never
seen it before.

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Indeed

Man, that is a great little article. I really enjoyed reading it.

(Wonder if it's made the rounds as a thread in general revolvers subforum ... (?). Probably so, but if not, it should.)

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I agree Nem. I have never seen it around THR before so go ahead and post it up if you feel so inclined.

Some definite limitation/shortcomings to bottomfeeders I had not considered and the shortcomings versus a revolver in my view relate more to the real (social work) world of use as opposed to:
A) I need 19 rounds of uber-calibre to take out a company of zombies and with armor piercing capability.
B) But where is the rail for the green laser and 400 Lumen, tactical strobe light?

Or more likely, you take your
Glock 17 out to the range and to classes,
but you really carry a snubnose revolver in
your everyday life? Lots of people rely on
a five-shot .38 Special for everyday protection,
even if some of them don’t want
to admit it. Snubby revolvers may not be
“tacti-cool,” but they can be very serious
defensive tools.

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Good stuff from the site.

Yes, a good article...this part is important:

Michael deBethencourt demonstrates a way to possibly get a round off if someone grabs your revolver and you are struggling for it. Let them continue to hold onto the cylinder while you rotate the frame 90 degrees around the cylinder while pulling the trigger.

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(rotate clockwise for S&W and clones…counterclockwise for Colt)

This works well for removing a BG from your gun:

Ya know, I rarely carry my 442 because it's limited to the 5 rounds...How do you guys handle this issue?

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As DA said...



Generally I feel fine with five rounds and a four round speed strip reload. In my normal threat environment I deem it sufficient, for the times I am going elsewhere I loadout in an appropriate manner...

^ A Jt classic right there. ^

This is funny.

This works well for removing a BG from your gun:

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Yup.

That little beast's bound to have a nasty bite.

Hail, hail, the gang's mostly here.

Speaking of Five, anybody seen that guy around the house lately?

jt

Generally I feel fine with five rounds and a four round speed strip reload. In my normal threat environment I deem it sufficient, for the times I am going elsewhere I loadout in an appropriate manner...
__________________

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Words to live by.

I get a bit uneasy when I have to go out the door with....



That will be next week.

Hail, hail, the gang's mostly here.

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I'll drink to that. It's Friday evening and that is exactly what I am doing. Fat Tire from Ft. Collins, CO is on the venue this eve.

A Jt classic right there

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Is that a Smart Carry with two X42s or are you just glad to see me?

re grips, etc.

Nem, DA, jt1,

I'm still floating on a high from yesterday. Duties will probably keep me away from the range until Thursday, but you know I will be there as often as I can, good lord willing and ammo available.... I think I am hooked. On the grips, my 642 came with the 305 Laser Grips. Those are the longer ones with room for the little finger. I find them very comfortable but also not adverse to the Hogue's if I feel a need for them. I did not use the Laser in my session but when I get to going through more rounds might try it. Also might try it when I move the target out a bit....

Any thoughts on the 317, 22lr snubby? Thinking along these line, closest I've seen to the 642 for training purposes, cheaper ammo, more fun to put more rounds through. I seem to be real enamored of the snubs.

Gotta go read that article - and the one on reloads....

Lagniappe

lagniappe - wjh2657 has a 317, he will be along to tell you about it sooner or later...good shooters but quality is hit or miss, seems to be a fitting problem on some I have seen...just be sure to examine the one you buy real good before you take it

On the grips, if you have the 305's you probably don't need the Monogrips, but the Bantams are great for CC.

DA - If you can find it try the Birra Peroni...it doesn't get much better

lagniappe

Sorry I must have missed one of your earlier posts. NO, don't take the CT 305s off. I would recommend training with them turned off sometimes and on other times. At some point you will need to calibrate them if they seem to be off, but don't worry about that right now. If I were you I would leave them off for the time being and come back to them later. You have enough on your plate right now. Scratch the Hogue Monogrips as they are about the same size as your 305s. Later if you decide to pocket carry and the 305s are too long you may want to consider the Hogue Bantams.

DA - If you can find it try the Birra Peroni...it doesn't get much better

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I have had Peroni...don't know about the Birra part. At any rate..I'll have another Fat Tire for now.

Just learned that someone tried to break into my next door neighbor's studio last night.

<Checks 642>

Peroni? Fat Tire?

Dang, you guys can afford the good stuff.

Mine's PBR, breakfast of champions.

Firing pin & thumb piece look okay?

Hello all,

I have two questions about my 442.

(1) Is the firing pin protruding from the body far enough? I've also included a picture of a spent .38 special cartridge. I have not experienced any misfires.

(2) Is the amount that my thumb piece is above the body normal? I can't tighten the screw any more.


Brian

Brian: your 442 looks normal.

Jim H.

My post 3377 has a broken link ostensibly caused by the italics in the quote
(but I can't find why the italics font appears. There's no ostensible code there for italics).

(Thanks for the heads up, Jim.)

Anyway, here's that link to the article that DA posted about why revolvers kick butt over bottom feeders.

OK, now even that one is being temperamental.
Maybe because it's a pdf.

Here's the URL: http://www.snubtraining.com/pdfs/WhyRevolversBeatAutos.pdf

"wjh2657 - As you have found, S&W uses a "representative" generic schematic in all related models. I know exactly what you are looking for but I I don't think it exists outside of the production documents we don't have access to. I will PM you the email for a S&W rep that has been very responsive to my info requests in the past."

JT1: I went ahead and ordered the S&W parts catalogue (both hard copy and CD) and it came in today. Very nice, in loose leaf binder. It had the diagrams and part numbers I needed for the firing pin assembly. I am ordering a few spares. I have never broken one but I would hate to lose the gun for a couple of months because of what is basically a slip in part!

A Bit Off Topic

Then I will get off the beer kick.....

Dang, you guys can afford the good stuff.

Mine's PBR, breakfast of champions.

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"have been rewarded with remarkable growth in sales - the production of PBR has more than doubled since its revival in the early 2000s. Pabst's success is seen by some analysts as a model for advertising to hipsters".

PBR and the 84 other brands are (farmed out) brewed by Miller Brewing Company or Lion.

Still a bit off topic. Pabst used to have a large brewery at Peoria, Illinois. My next door neighbor hauled for a Springfield distributor and made a couple of trips a week to Peoria; he would drive up, drop an empty trailer, drive back, then either to Milwaukee or Detroit. I grew up on Falstaff; acquired the taste from my step dad who acquired the taste in various vacation venues in the south Pacific in the early/mid 1940's.

WJH

JT1: I went ahead and ordered the S&W parts catalogue (both hard copy and CD) and it came in today. Very nice, in loose leaf binder. It had the diagrams and part numbers I needed for the firing pin assembly. I am ordering a few spares. I have never broken one but

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That's a good idea. I may have to follow suit. When you order the manual then it is based on the specific model taking account the year of manufacture?

I would hate to lose the gun for a couple of months because of what is basically a slip in part!

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Heartily agree with that statement.


Nem says

Just learned that someone tried to break into my next door neighbor's studio last night.

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Time to break out the scattergun too.

I don't have a professionally installed alarm system but over the years I have built one up using X10 components. It works well and you can customize it for your environment. I have it monitoring the interior perimeter with motion sensors tied to audio visual alerts (horns, lights). I am primarily concerned with entry via a lower level (walkout). The main floor has very limited access.

http://www.x10.com/

Time to break out the scattergun too.

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Where I am, after about 9 pm, the closest human is half mile away, with many buildings between me and them.

So, "scattergun" for me (for night time security duty) equals my .30-30. (Planning to cut it down very soon to guide gun specs, then load up some two-legged varmint rnds for security issues).

I have built one up using X10 components.

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Looks like a soft porn site on arrival - - but I can see the potential of the gear. We should start a thread on cobbled inexpensive home security systems.

OK, now as penance for my OT sins (sorry, but DA started it with his Fat Tire story ), let me ask a 642 question. Anybody in here interested in trading a 442 for a 642? If so, send me a PM, please; let's talk.

Why? Ok, this may seem OT, but it's not. Work with me.

While backpacking recently (and not in as good physical condition as I'd like to be), I realized that I'm ready to (again) explore ultralight equipment. Since I bought my gear (some of it over a decade ago), newer designs and materials have allowed a revolution in ultralight gear (sort of parallel to our airweight revolvers). I can now shave several pounds off of my basic 5-day rig by replacing my current stove, cookware, tent (there alone I can save 3-4 lb), sleeping pad and a few other items.

On that trip, I carried my 642, not my 65 (or the Ruger SRH I'm considering). But bears aren't an issue here (few black bear, no griz) or really for me ever (I know how to avoid bear attacks; keep the camp clean and the tent totally food free).

Nope, I'm more worried about crack heads out there (just like in town) than bears.

So, especially for an ultralight fast moving adventure, the X42 gets the call.

But once again, I've noticed that at night, it's reflective in the moonlight.

I'd rather have black.

I'll post something in the trading post, as well, but just thought I'd mention it here since I think there are a few x42 owners in the house.

Nem

DAdams: The manual covers all S&W handguns: Pistols and Revolvers, Old and New. It comes in a 3 ring binder, neatly tabbed. I also bought the CD manual just to transfer and carry with me on a flash drive on the road.






lagniappe: I fire my 317 almost every day. It is a terrific trainer for my J-Frames. Since it is lighter and the trigger pull is heavier (I left it that way for training) it is actually requires more discipline to shoot than the .38s do. I shoot it with CCI CBs into a Champion Bullet Trap in my garage and with Federal LRs at the range. After practicing with the 317 I found that my spread (you don't shoot for groups with a snubby, you shoot for a 6" Center of Mass) with the .38s has tightened up considerably. I clean it good after every firing session and I LTI it just like do all of the other guns.

I use two different types of grips on my J-Frames: the 642 and 637 wear UM Combat grips (S&W Item) as they are pocket carried and fired with .38 Spl Standard Pressure. The 640 and 60 wear Pachmayr COMPACs as they are carried OWB with .38 Spl +P. I bought a set of each type for the 317 and it wears the "seasonal" grips to simulate my actual EDC. In the 2" barrel it is not accurate enough for a Trail "Kit Gun" but is perfect for training fire for the snubbies.

I am trying to reach the point where I "Zen" fire the gun, the old Bill Jordan Instinctive Fire/Point Fire method. I had reached that point with my revolver in Nam at one point but I have lost the skill since then. I shoot 500 rounds of .22 to every 50 rounds of .38 Spl.

I have had no problems whatsoever with my 317.

DAdams, thanks for the link to the reloading article. I have the safariland speedloaders and hadn't developed a sure and swift technique (often seemed to be torqued a bit and felt awkward). Now I think that article supplied the missing technique!

Nem, maybe you need a day and night version? One in a boot holster? I really like the looks of the 442 but luckily have another person in the household and maybe we will get that model when they are ready for one. I tracked down your link too. Very interesting article.

On the 22 issue, I looked at the 63 online but the barrel seems long. Considering looking at the 317 for a snub then maybe a longer barrel one later on if (when?) I get frustrated not being able to tightly group my shots. All in good time I'm thinking. Luckily I am not adverse to accumulating a few models as time goes by....

Looks like a soft porn site on arrival - - but I can see the potential of the gear. We should start a thread on cobbled inexpensive home security systems.

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Their marketing borders on State Fair Hawking/Ginsu Knife.
Decent product but obnoxious sales tatics I know.

Now that I am an empty nester I am getting back into some local wilderness (Smoky Mountain National Park) camping.

Lightweight Gear. I was a Colin Fletcher (The Man Who Walked Through Time) fan back in the 70s and I had state of the art gear then. Eventually it wore out got stinkified, holes in it etc.
I am doing the same, buying some new stuff for camping. Having left FL and relocating to TN and getting more in the quasi-survival (social unrest) mode has spurred me on as-well. Lots of good reasons to justify

Eureka Solitare Tent (1 man) three season. Inexpensive and I may ugrade on this item if I keep using it. I like it because it is 80% netting for star gazing and a zipper that runs down the center line for standup in and out. Don't have to use the "door".

Thermarest Pad. Cost as much as the tent, but worth every dime. Packable and sleeps well.

Fast Pac Sleeping Bag (Gander Mountain) Duraloft, good to 20 degrees. 2 lbs.
Nice and compact.

Jet Boil Stove/System. Pretty amazing performance with the proprietary cook ware. Conventional stuff can be used as-well. Like my 2 Cup Stainless Steel Coffee Percolator.

Katadayn Vario Microfilter Water Set-up. More a just in case item, I don't take it camping unless I was doing going out of bottled water range. More the lost utility scenario.

Various other items for the camping craft.

Since all of my camping at this time is out of an inflatable boat I haven't purchased a new pack yet. Still working out of my extremely large 2 day pack.

Achilles LSI 10' 2" inflatable boat with Mercury 5 hp motor.

To bring the handgun back into play equipment wise, I prefer a black handgun when out and about, although the four legged predators don't seem to care. I will be glad when it is legal to carry in the National Parks.




My Brother-in-Law and I just returned from a 4 day expedition on Lake Fontana in the Smoky Mountains.

wjh2657,

Thanks for the information on the 317. I will definitely look into it. I am very new to all this. Followed most of your post but not the "I LTI it just like do all of the other guns". edit: is this it? Limited Technical Inspection? Check it out to make sure all is copacetic?:/edit I'm not dumb, just ignorant. ;-)

Are there speedloaders for the 22's? Is there any way to dry fire the 22's? My time is a little restricted so I do a lot of dry firing. I have seen "dummies" for the 22's but no snap caps. And I don't know the ramifications of dummy rounds. Are they noisy? Can you fire them inside? edit: if it's that similar to 642, maybe just dry fire the 642 and let the increased rounds in the 22lr at the range compensate for not dry firing it? /edit

Love the Bullet Trap but don't think I'm ready to fire weapons in my garage and pretty sure my neighbors aren't ready for me to do so either.

Thanks for the great feedback on the 317. I think it would be a great companion for my 642.

Lagniappe

Lagni said:

Thanks for the great feedback on the 317. I think it would be a great companion for my 642.

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I concur on the 317. Perfect practice companion for your 442.

DA, give me a few days, and I'll PM to you some recommendations for camp/packing gear for your consideration. In a couple of places - especially the tent - there are potentially some better options for ultralight. (I've been researching this for months.)

GREAT Pocket Holster--CHEAP ! ! !

I have no dog in the fight--just want to pass on info to fellow club members. I purchased an "Ambidextrous Pocket Concealment Holster" Model 64 from www.ActiveProGear.com to carry my 642 with CT 405's. The holster only cost $24.95--SHIPPING WAS FREE ! I rec'd it in a coupla days. It is VERY well made--is constucted so it stays open when the weapon is removed, is covered in a faux-suede type material so it stays in your pocket when you draw. The interior is lined differently, so the weapon slips out with NO resistance. The 642 doesn't print at all. I know that the Mika is the " holy grail " of holsters of this type on this forum, BUT this holster may provide an alternative to the cost and wait for a Mika. I think it's a GREAT holster at a GREAT price....................widowmaker

Mr. Softy

I just received a High Noon Holsters Mr. Softy for my 442. I have Mika pocket, simply rugged iwb/owb. The Mr. Softy is my attempt to AIWB. I find appendix carry conceals well and is comfortable. It seems the Mr. Softy is too tight and too short. Too much of the gun exposed. Is this correct for AIWB? Are other holsters better for this?

Mr. Softy

Found answer to my AIWB by contacting High Noon Holsters and they sent pictures of 442 in holster at different angles. So it does fit.

I bought the 442 for CCW because SA-XD9 service model is too difficult to conceal. Even with J frame, other than Mika pocket, trying IWB/OWB/AIWB all don't work as well as I would like.

Also I have bought 3 defense round brands
Speer Gold Dot SB 135 gr +p
Buffalo Bore FBI Load non +p
Remington FBI Load +p (still on back order)