If you dont conceal your weapon, can you be charged with a concealed weapon?

well, that charge them anyway idea is just gonna get a department sued. but im glad to know you are trying. kudos to you.

Ive also asked questions on public forums. I can get links to opencarry forums and then links to case laws to research more and verify.

In AL everything ive read says open carry is legal as long as the private property owner doesnt object.

That said in 10 years ive never had a call on open carry so if someone does a lot of LEOs wouldnt know it is legal. The case law that supports it isnt taught nor are most familiar with it.

Ive also heard of superiors complaining about contacting city attorneys because they charge like that.

I asked him how that was and he told me that even in a holster, it is considered concealed. I told him I didnt think that was legal and he told me that it may not be, but its the charge that they use. I have seen many people charged with offenses that didnt even exist, but they didnt know any better so they just plead guilty and paid the fine. And as to the knowledge and experience of law enforcement supervisors, just because they have a butter bar on their collar, doesnt mean that they are inteligent or well versed in the law. Try actually reading some police reports and you will find that a lot of cops cant spell, much less enforce only the actual laws that are on the books. I really appreciate all of your responses. I have yet to encounter someone open carrying other than the gentleman at the chinese restaraunt. If I ever do encounter someone open carrying, I will make sure that he is legit, and then send him on his way.

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The law in Mississippi prohibits carrying a concealed pistol without a permit. The state supreme court has interpreted that to mean that if the weapon is at all covered (including in a holster on a belt), then it is concealed. As long as a person has a valid MS (or reciporical) permit, they can carry it concealed (which includes pistols carried in belt holsers visibly).

In Washington State it is illegal to carry a firearm unconcealed unless you are in the act of hunting, at a designated shooting range, or at your place of residence or business and said business allows the open carry of firearms. This is a law common in many states, it is called the crime of affray, and there is case law already on the books in Washington state that supports the law.

Ref RCW 9.41.270

Case Law Ref State v. Spencer.

A man (Spencer) was charged and convicted for openly carrying a loaded SKS in public. He had the firearm slung on his shoulder at the time of arrest. Another such case involving open carry of a pistol also resulted in a conviction, even though no brandishment was ever proven in either case.

In short, if you carry openly in public and someone, anyone, tells an LEO that it bothers them to see you openly displaying, expect to be charged and likely convicted.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050

I don't read it that way. In fact, it reads just the opposite.

But have some very informed WA members who I'm sure will be along shortly with more/better info.

EDIT: the law you sited had this specific notation: "It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm...in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

Peaceably open carrying a firearm doesn't meet this criteria.

See this article for more clarity. http://www.redcounty.com/washington-law-enforcement-and-open-carry

benjammin - it appears you are misinformed.

benjammin, my friend. Why don't you post what RCW 9.41.270 actually says?

RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

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Do you see the "and" that I have highlighted in the statute? Open carry of a firearm is NOT illegal in Washington. There are hundreds, if not thousands of us who actually LIVE in Washington that do it every day:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/

To violate 9.41.270 the person must be carrying a deadly weapon "in a manner" AND "under circumstances" AND "at a time and place" that either MANIFESTS and intent to intimidate or that WARRANTS alarm.

A firearm being openly carried, without aiming it at anyone, and ESPECIALLY a firearm being openly carried in a holster during the course of activities any other person would be engaged in does not meet ANY of the elements of 9.41.270. Additionally, because of the "AND" and where it is located in the statute, ALL of the elements of 9.41.270 must be met to be guilty.

The case that you reference, State vs. Spencer actually UPHOLDS the fact the open carry of firearms by itself does NOT violate 9.41.270. What violated 9.41.270 was the fact that there was testimony that the SKS was actually pointed at another person.

Put this in perspective

Let's put this all in perspective, shall we?

Let's put this in prospective. Let's assume that a permit IS required for open carry as it sort of is in MS (which in my state, Washington, it is not).

I call 911 and report that I saw a guy driving a car down the street.

A license is required to drive a car. Should a cop stop the driver of that car and ask to see his license or permit simply because I reported that I saw him driving a car?

I call 911 and report that a guy is carrying a gun.

A license (in some places) is required to carry a gun. Should a cop stop the guy carrying the gun (in a holster, not doing anything else), simply because I saw him carrying a gun?

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

And, to put it in further perspective:

How many people drive cars with suspended or invalid or no driver's license compared to the number of people that illegaly carry guns in public in holsters?

How many people are killed every year by automobiles compared to the number of people that are killed by guns?

shootistpd27 said:

I have seen many people charged with offenses that didnt even exist, but they didnt know any better so they just plead guilty and paid the fine.

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What city do you live in? I NEVER want to even drive through there if it is a community where I can get pulled over and given a citation for a non-existent offense, have it go to court and then to have a judge adjudicate the case is a horrendous violation of civil rights and opens all parties involved to huge legal damages. One of these days, your department's luck will run out!

Most guns owners on these forums are hyper-sensitive about having their rights taken away and one of those rights is knowing what crime you are being charged with and that is clearly not happening in this town in Mississippi! How come all you 2A folks aren't fuming over this?

With all due respect, if I get stopped on the way to or from the range and I ask the officer, "What's the charge?" and he says, "A bunch of guys on an Internet forum who I have never met and who have no legal training and don't know anything about the laws in this jurisdiction think you might be guilty of...", the city attorney will be very upset in this case as well... and not because some partrolman wasted his time asking a stupid question!

Scott

Put simply, if you want to know what a congressman thought about it at the time it was voted on, read the RCW, if you want to actually see how the law is enforced and how someone gets convicted of the offense look at the case law. I am not misinformed, the case is real, and the convictions were upheld. Debating with a judge about what the RCW says seldom if ever changes the court's mind once they've got a precedent upon which to stand.

Consider the essence of the offense, if someone sees you carrying a firearm in Washington state and they have a problem with it and they communicate that fear to a LEA and he decides to arrest you, you will likely be convicted, especially in Urban areas like King County. Since it has already happened as a matter of factual history twice in the state, one can conclude it can and will happen again. That is a fact not open to interpretation or debate.

If in MS, open carry in a holster is considered by the courts to be concealed carry,then there is just about no such thing as open carry without a permit. The man at the restuarant the OP talked to would then be considered concealed carry, even though it
was out in the open. Since he a had CCW, he was legal in the fact he had a holstered gun, even out in the open. So the OP actually had no legal right to ask him to cover it.....This is what I'm seeing in all this.....right....?.....Just trying to learn some facts here. Am I right or wrong on this?

Do you have to use a holster for concealed IWB in MS? Sometimes i use a gun mounted belt clip.What about car carry? Sometimes i throw a pistol in my glove box or center console. I would hate to have to use two hands to pop the gun out of a fobus or something if i needed it.

I was pretty sure TN was open or concealed. The laws in MS are contradictory but is seems as if open is legal but not allowed. My permit just says "FIREARMS PERMIT" not CCW,ect.

benjammin,

That's just simply not true. But you are in Colorado and I am in Washington. Hundreds of us open carry every day. About once a week one of us has a LEO incident because of a MWAG call. Yet none of us are sitting in jail or have convictions.

I spoke to the shift captain today and he told me that the proper charge would be a concealed weapons violation. I asked him how that was and he told me that even in a holster, it is considered concealed. I told him I didnt think that was legal and he told me that it may not be, but its the charge that they use

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So I guess that if I have a CCW in this town, it is legal for me to walk down the street with a gun in holster, strapped to my hip, in full view of the public? After all, my weapon is concealed- according to the cops. Or would the cops in this town then decide to rewrite the law to suit their purposes, and charge me with disturbing the peace, or perhaps open carry of a firearm, or some other trumped up charge?

If in MS, open carry in a holster is considered by the courts to be concealed carry,then there is just about no such thing as open carry without a permit. The man at the restuarant the OP talked to would then be considered concealed carry, even though it
was out in the open. Since he a had CCW, he was legal in the fact he had a holstered gun, even out in the open. So the OP actually had no legal right to ask him to cover it.....This is what I'm seeing in all this.....right....?.....Just trying to learn some facts here. Am I right or wrong on this?

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That is a very interesting way to look at it and on the face of it, I believe you would be right. If you can be convicted of conceal carrying without a permit while open carrying in a holster, I believe it would be sufficient to meet CC requirements for the CCW holder. Anyone care to articulate further?

Put simply, if you want to know what a congressman thought about it at the time it was voted on, read the RCW, if you want to actually see how the law is enforced and how someone gets convicted of the offense look at the case law. I am not misinformed, the case is real, and the convictions were upheld. Debating with a judge about what the RCW says seldom if ever changes the court's mind once they've got a precedent upon which to stand.

Consider the essence of the offense, if someone sees you carrying a firearm in Washington state and they have a problem with it and they communicate that fear to a LEA and he decides to arrest you, you will likely be convicted, especially in Urban areas like King County. Since it has already happened as a matter of factual history twice in the state, one can conclude it can and will happen again. That is a fact not open to interpretation or debate.

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Benjamin - is the other person correct that the guy was convicted on the face of witness testimony that he actually pointed the gun at a person or not?

WA is a long way from the OP's locale.