Single Shot Rifles

krochus:

TC Arms' Contender pistol (break-action) still holds the World Record for handgun accuracy at 500 yards with iron sights. The group fired measured .75" X 3.5".

I have seen precious few centerfire target rifles that do that well. The fact of break action is irrelevant to accuracy.

Respectfully,

Geno

I have seen precious few centerfire target rifles that do that well. The fact of break action is irrelevant to accuracy.

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I disagree,

It all has to do with cambering and leverage. With a break action the locking mechanism is offset from the bore with no mechanical advantage. What happens is if cartridge resizing isn't EXTREMELY carefully controlled the amount of action lockup you get varies with case stickout. This wreaks havoc with accuracy.

On a bolt action you have the lockup mechanism centered with the axis of the bore. You also have a the powerful camming action of the bolt in its raceways allowing you to crush fit neck sized cases into the chamber for a very precise and repeatable bullet alignment.

TC Arms' Contender pistol (break-action) still holds the World Record for handgun accuracy at 500 yards with iron sights. The group fired measured .75" X 3.5".

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I don't doubt that but here's the thing. In order to do so the firearm has to be built to extremely precise tolerances and the ammunition even more so. The more accuracy you want from a break action the more and more anal you have to be about case prep.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=38
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=172

I realize this link is trying to sell a product but everything mentioned inside is true. whereas a bolt action you simply have to partial length resize your brass

One of the reasons I like single shot rifles is that for the same barrel lenght they are much shorter. Short quick handling rifles are good things.

As for bang for the buck....A use 30.06 bolt gun is hard to beat.

if you can find them, the savage 219 in 30-30 would be good, never bought one, but my buddy inherited one from his grandfather, shoots good. i dont think there very expensive. in 1960 they sold new for $37.50
ken

While I agree that a inexpensive bolt-action like a Marlin XL-7, Savage-Stevens 200, Remington 715 might be a good choice in .30-06 Springfield, I am a big fan of the H&R/NEF single shots and there are not as many inexpensive .30-30 Winchester lever guns around any more. I think you could do a lot worse that a .30-30 Handi-Rifle--it might not be a minute-of-angle gun at 200 yards, but it is certainly minute-of-deer and there is something special about the simplicity and challenge of having just one shot. As food for thought, here is a thread with pics about a guy who took his .30-06 Handi-Rifle on a hunting trip to Africa. Looks to me like the inexpensive single shot will do just fine if you do your part.

PS--If you weren't looking specifically for those calibers, I would have suggested the H&R CR-45LC carbine as a fantastic beginner's deer rifle, at least if you are talking about short range hunting like we get in the Northeast. It has to be the prettiest gun H&R makes right now, it has genuine Marble carbine sights, and the .45 Long Colt out of a long barrel, especially if you move up to hot loads, is deadly effective. I would never put a scope on it, though.

First off all Russian guns have chrome lined bores, something that doesn't lend itself to outstanding feats of accuracy.

Second as with all Russian guns QC is a completely foreign concept, my 7.62x39 Remington single shot was shipped to me with a blatantly out of round neck shoulder junction in it's chamber, in the end I reamed it to 303british but it still shot no better than 2MOA

Third, these guns have a typical third world single shot shotgun trigger, mine broke at well over 6lbs

Forth we're bragging about accuracy amongst break action firearms. That's like bragging about being the smartest kid in special ed class. I've owned just about every break action rifle you think of with over a dozen different frames and barrels. They all share one thing in common. I would get sick and tired of their variable and general lack of accuracy. Yeah I know I'm an idiot for buying more of em, but every couple years I see one and fall in love with how light compact and handy they are.......Then I shoot the darn thing

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I have to agree with all your points except one. QC in the Remington Spartan line is non existent. Some of the guns work fine, but a LOT of them have serious problems.

Now for the point of disagreement:

I have a J.C. Higgins Model 50 with a chrome lined barrel. It has an FN Mauser action with a High Standard barrel. It is extremely accurate for a sporting rifle and the Model 50 has an excellent reputation for accuracy overall. So it may be more difficult to make an accurate chrome lined barrel, there may be guns where the plain barrel version shoots better than the chromed one, but a chrome lined barrel does not necessarily preclude good accuracy.

I own 2 Handi rifles. One in .44 Mag and the second one in 7mm08. THe .44 was bought for my daughter to use when she started deer hunting, at 50 yards 1.5 inch groups all day long. The 7mm08 is MOA. I also have a friend who owns a NEF heavy barrel in .223 he takes it out west for prairie dogs. When his custom rifle gets to hot he lets it cool and keeps shooting the Handi. He consistantly hits at 300 yards. Not bad for a $200 rifle.

I like my Mossberg ATR100 in .30-06, and at $299 (including a scope), I enjoy sending lead down range with it nearly every weekend. It's also available in other calibers.

For some reason, the cheap break open single shot rifles seem to have somewhat of a cult following that I cannot understand. Most of them are ugly and not what one would call accurate, certainly not inherently accurate. I suppose they are OK for a seven year old to have to sit in a deer stand and wait for a doe to come to a feeder. (Don't forget to wear your cammo). Years ago, they were cheap but that is not so now, they sell for premium prices as first guns, youth guns, versatile guns (because you can change barrels) but they are still a poor excuse for a deer rifle. The second shot if needed is not exactly fast as it might be in a lever, bolt or semi auto rifle.

I like single shots but there not worth 150$ imo much less the 200+ some of them are selling for

For some reason, the cheap break open single shot rifles seem to have somewhat of a cult following that I cannot understand.

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I don't understand the cult following either, but I do understand why they sell a lot - they are cheaper! Except for the 'premium' single shots like T/C and Ruger #1/#3, which are much more than a lot of rifles.

Most of them are ugly

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Meh, eye of the beholder. I find the Rossi and NEF to be MUCH more attractive than a plastic-stocked T/C Encore, that's for sure!

and not what one would call accurate, certainly not inherently accurate.

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Well, their accuracy can vary from decent to good to very good - just cannot make that blanket statement. NEFs can be hit or miss. Some are extremely accurate.

I suppose they are OK for a seven year old to have to sit in a deer stand and wait for a doe to come to a feeder. (Don't forget to wear your cammo).

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What does that even mean? They're "OK" for a lot more than just that. They work fine for adults too.

Years ago, they were cheap but that is not so now, they sell for premium prices

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No, they're STILL cheaper; the cheapest new rifle you can buy. True that the GAP between the cheap single shots and the cheapest turnbolts is narrower now than it used to be, but you can still get a Rossi S.S. in a full power centerfire for $180 out the door, and a rimfire or shotgun quite a bit less than that.

but they are still a poor excuse for a deer rifle.

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Ummm, how do you figure? They are fine deer rifles. Accurate enough, work fine, cheap. What's the problem? It's all about the price with these, and the po' folks who cannot afford a good turnbolt, etc.

The second shot if needed is not exactly fast as it might be in a lever, bolt or semi auto rifle.

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Well, ok, but 97% of the time, a second shot is not needed. Of that other 3%, in half those cases, the 2nd shot is only needed as the coup de grace, in which case you have plenty of time to reload. In that final 1.5% where a quick 2nd shot is needed, true that the single shot is slower, but if you have your extra rounds handy (like in a buttstock shell holder), we're only talking about the difference between 3/4ths of a second (lever or pump), versus 1.25 seconds with a single shot. They can be quite fast with a little practice.

Sorry, but it would seem that you've been misinformed, or maybe have been smokin a little wacky tobaccy this morning?

Nastrowie!-

Not sure where in NH you are, but "The Barn Store" in Salisbury, NH has/ had a bolt action 30/30 in there for a while.

Granted, I haven't been there in about three weeks, but it was there for a bit...

603.648.2888.

Really nice people, really cool store.

Fast second shots>>>poor hunter

Ok folks time for a moment of truth.

IF you are an ethical hunter this does not apply to you.

The only reason for a Second shot is that you screwed up the first one. Ether you should not have shot in the first place or you failed to engage the target properly with your weapon.

If you are hunting bears, wild hogs or feral dogs where there maybe a need to shoot a second or God for bid a third shot to keep one's position on the food chain, then yes a slow loading rifle would not be the best thing to take to the field. Otherwise learn to harvest game better.

Nothing is more sicking than the BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM :bangheadause BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM of some would be nimrod dumping a box of ammo at spike deer running across an a field first day of deer season.

I have seen way too many deer that when skinned out that had multiple non lethal bullet wounds.

Kill them cleanly or buy your meat at the SUPER WALMART

lefteyedom

I strongly disagree with the above statement. I find it surprising that someone who claims to be a supra ethical hunter would not be at terms with the realization that game animals still manage to run off even with "perfect" shot placement.

I've literally shot deer so close I could urinate on em with perfect shot placment using 12ga buckshot (from a single shot no less), knocking the animal flat only to have it get up and run 200yds down a ravine to expire making retrieval a REAL chore. I've seen a deer that turned out to have had it's heart shot LOOSE with a .50cal powerbelt run twice that far.

Now when I shoot a deer if it falls and tries to get up I no longer hesitate to shoot the sucker again if the shot presents itself. Use an single shot and the deer is usually up and running before you can even eject the spent casing. Call me lazy if you want but I'd rather loose a couple lbs more meat than risk losing the entire deer.

I have a TC Encore and while it seems well made I get very inconsistent results with it. I have a .350 Rem Mag that groups into 1" at a hundred yards with heavy loaded 250 Partitions. I also have a .223 heavy contour barrel that strings shots like crazy. For a few rounds I will get a nice group and then when it warms up it shoots about 6 inches high and 4-5 inches to the right. That's just unacceptable to me.

Since TC is supposed to be the best of the break actions, I have little desire to purchase another one since my experience has been frustrating at best.

Just my opinion,
Greebe

Tc remedy

I too had issues with my encore 50 and my300wm until i bought an after market hinge pin from arther brown. I also have a handy rifle and for the price i would buy the hr/nef. In the caliber of your choice.they are cheaper than a barrel from tc. Alot less hassel than switching back and forth.

Krohus, I spent a fair amount of my youth on the east side of your state around Helena. I know very well how animal react to being shot. At hunting clubs "behind the levee" is one of the first places I saw deer with 5 and 6 gun shots in them.

I try to be an ethical hunter, not to be better than anyone else, but because I hate suffering. Animal or human, death comes to all, that is a given. The manner of death is a another issue. A hunter has a moral duty to make an animal's death as quick as possible with the least suffering possible.


The truth is that if you want to DRT an animal a heart and or heart/lung shot is not the way to do it. A heart/lung is the easiest fatal shot to make. But you are right in the fact that an animal so shot can run along ways before blood loss brings on a collapse and death.

There is only two way to drop animal in its tracks. One is to destroy the brain and or the spinal cord there by preventing the animals muscle movements. The other way is to shatter the shoulder joints to the point that animal can no longer support its self.


Brain Shots works great, but if you miss the brain and blow off the jaw the animal will starve to death or die of infection days or weeks later. Shoulder shots work great but risk losing a lot of meat.

Kill them cleanly or buy your meat at the Super Wal-mart.

The Remington is crap! A friend of mine got one for his son and it would not even fire. The New England is a better gun.

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Interestingly, the "constestants" on the second season of The Alaska Expiriment had the same type of issue with their IZH-94 (maybe it was the Remington model) haveing mechanical firing problems. When I watch it on TV, I figured maybe they didn't know how to use their gun. Interesting, though, that the brand has a rep for such failures.

I find the Rossi single shot to be a significantly better value than the NEFs. Both are suitable for hunting, accuracy-wise. But the Rossis cost less, have a lower hammer (can get your optics lower), and have a safety where the NEF does not. The other day, I was just dry firing my NEF in .243 and I'm crappin ya negatory, out of the blue, the tip of the hammer just broke off and flew a few feet, along with the hammer extension piece. Now I cannot put the hammer extension back onto what's left of the hammer, and so it's a bealzubich to cock and un-cock, which is double unsafe with no safety.

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The safety on the Rossi is superfolous. While it is actually very easy to decock a H&R/NEF without the safety, I can respect why it is comforting- especially for a unfamiliar or begining user.

dont know the current goin price, but the savage 219 in 30-30 sounds good for what you want, my buddy inherited one, and it shoots pretty well, in 1960 they sold new for $37.50, so i cant imagine they get much for them now, only possible downside is there is no way to attach a scope.
ken

I have only owned one NEF centerfire rifle. After reading a lot of articles in magazines and posts on the internet about what a great little gun they are I purchased one in .223. To say I was severely disappointed in it's performance is an understatement. I worked with it for well over a year, trying every trick and some I read about, with no success at all. I never got a group good enough at 50 yards to warrant moving out to 100 yards.I determined what was wrong and it would have required a new barrel. I was so disgusted with it that I just traded it off for a Stevens 200.

I also had an NEF, bought before the .223, in 17HMR. It wasn't a bad rifle at all but it wasn't consistent. Sometimes I could get very good groups and sometimes, not so good. It eventually found it's way back to the gun shop as a trade-in also.

Have both a NEF Handi Rifle and a Contender Carbine. Both threw shotgun size patterns with the factory barrels in 30-30 Winchester. Both have been rechamered to 30-30 Ackley improved. A joy to shot with lead bullets. Did some load development today. Rather windy so I only shot at 50 yards. Better groups with a 135 grain Sierras jacketed bullets (now deleted) were running around 0.5 to 0.6 inches. The loads it didn't like were into 1.5 to 2.1 inches. In addition to the increased accuracy, won't have to trim the cases since the rifle now headspaces off the 40 degree shoulder and not the rim. Reduces stretching the cases. Should have rechambered both barrels years ago. The 357 barrel isn't a tack driver, but is accurate enough out to 100 yards. The 223 Remington barrel isn't bad. Might consider rechambering to the Ackley Improved. Will be rechambering the 22 Hornet in the next couple of weeks. Also expect the accuracy to improve. Should also be able to trim the Hornet cases less after rechambering.

"I have seen precious few centerfire target rifles that do that well. The fact of break action is irrelevant to accuracy."

i disagree, in general terms, a bolt action should always be more accurate than a single shot, because the 2 piece stocks used on single shots arnt as ridgid as the one piece stocks used on bolt action rifles.
ken

I own an NEF 223 with a bull barrel. If I handload I can get less than a MOA with it. Since my wife had so much fun shooting it, I am now needing to buy a replacement (she has claimed it as her own).

I've got an H&R in .243 w/ an additional .45-70 barrel.
High power scope on the .243 and a red dot on the .45-70...
love them both.

Must be a tough red dot to take .45-70 out of a lightweight rifle without losing zero. What kind is it?