NFA Trust: "ATF takes longer and diggs deeper into your background to discover why"?

I was wondering how they can do a background check on a trust if you can add someone to it after the fact.

I am impressed.
I don't understand all of this paperwork and bureaucracy, but all of that just to get so called NFA items?

How does that deter crime or murder? It is total BS!

I know this is cliched, but the more I hear "ATF should be a convenience store, not a government-run agency" the more it think it SHOULD that way.

I don't think the coronation of 'Glorious Leader' has anything to do with it. Typically backlogs with NFA approvals have to do with either backlogs at the FBI in checking fingerprint cards (NFA approvals take a back seat at the FBI to criminal investigations and NSA/DHS needs), or simple laziness/ineptitude/political hackery at the NFA branch.

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Respectfully, for trusts there are no fingerprint cards (or pictures needed either). Trusts and corporations don't have fingerprints

Trusts used to get approved in a month or so. Now seem to be about 4 months.

Another funny thing, when I origionally called for status check last month, the lady asked my serial then sent me back to the investigator. When I called today, the guy asked for my serial, the make, who it was going to, and basically dragged it out as long as possible before telling me it was approved.

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That's normal process, once it's in the system they want to verify you have some sort of legitimate access to the status of the item. Every transaction I've ever done with them over the phone has had that 'delay' - and I'm thankful for it. It's accessible with a modicum of privacy.

As far as taking it out of state on a trust or LLC, the entity is legal, the item is legal. File your transit form and you're golden.

I'm also not generally phased by the bugaboo of threatened changes regarding the ownership of firearms by trusts or corporations; if you've paid a tax for ownership, you can clearly illustrate legal possession before any date of restriction by the entity. You *will* be grandfathered.

And to get back at the original question, trusts aren't to hide a prohibited owner status, they're there to provide an alternative. Do I really want to beg Sheriff Mommy the Inept for his blessing every time I want a toy?

Trusts dont get a background check. You dont even give them enough information on a trust NFA transfer to even begin a background check. There are no fingerprints, no SS# etc.

LLC's and trusts can be set up in state where you do not live, and they are a common tool for keeping houses out of state intestacy law.

Therefore it would seem that it would make sense to set up a trust in a gun friendly state so that they don't meddle with the trust/ corporation law.

Has Anyone thought about this?

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When the gun is transferred from the dealer to the LLC or trust, it has to be transferred to a member of that LLC or a trustee of that trust. The dealer can't make the transfer unless that member or trustee is also a resident of the same state as the dealer. If it's an LLC or trust with a single member or trustee, then your plan won't work.

Gee, if they'd take suppressors off the NFA, they'd probably cut their workload by at least half and save the gov'mint all that money.

I have gone the "regular route" and I have done a NFA Trust and they both come back in about the same time. I can't tell you how many people I have helped with their trust and they never had a problem of taking any longer than someone else's. The DOJ must have been backed up when they received your trust. Hmmmmmmm....

Keep in mind that YOU don't own the item in question - it is owned by the trust.

This can be a good thing or a bad thing.

Something I've been meaning to check on when I have time - perhaps someone has a quick answer.

My suppressors are in a corporation. They are used for corporate purposes. Can I issue a letter to an employee that permits him to possess the suppressor on company business?

If he's an actual employee and it's not just "here I'll pay you $1 a year and call you an 'employee' to try to fool the ATF", then sure.

In my experience, dealers are nearly always wrong about nearly everything. Just smile and nod.

NFA Trust Approvals shortining

I have begun to receive reports that indicate the time for approval of Form 4's is down to 10-12 weeks. I know many people who's applications have been in process for much longer. It appears that the new applications are being done quicker or it might just be that certain compliance people are more efficient.

Who can use NFA items in Corporation

If your corporation owns the items, only the officers listed with the state can use them. Other employees cannot use them, with a trust, you can amend the trust and add trustees and they can use the items without having to update the state or pay the state to update the records.

As of today I am at 117 days waiting for my form 4. This is one that was sent in as an individual, not a trust.

I need a really experienced gun trust lawyer for a problem I have with a home made trust that I did a few years ago. I've got about $90,000 worth of Class III items tied up in this trust and have now discovered that I have some MAJOR problems with it. Any advice or pointers that anyone can point towards an experienced gun trust lawyer in Illinois would be sincerely appreciated.

(I saw the gun trust lawyer post above, but he's in Florida, and I have some unique issues in Illinois that I think would be best served by an Illinois attorney).

75 Lawyers in 43 States

We have a bunch of lawyers in most states. We may not have one in IL because the items you can have are so limited. Basically you can only have AOW's and DD's. 90K of destructive devices is a lot. One of our lawyers in another state may be licensed in IL. If you call monday or email me I would be happy to check for you.


David Goldman
Apple Law Firm PLLC
331 East Monroe Street
Jacksonville, FL 32202

Tel (904) 685-1200 Fax (904) 212-0678

http://www.GunTrustLawyer.com/

a problem I have with a home made trust

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No surprise there...nope, nil, nada, zip...

Seriously, hope you get some good help and find a smooth resolution to the situation.

Home made trust

At least it is you that has the problem and not the ATF like with this guy.

BATFE and Seizure From Invalid NFA Trust

In regard to some CLEO's not signing because of some mystical legal department telling them about liability is weak since there is case law on the books that is on point. The real point is if CLEO no want to sign they do not need a reason so the use of Corps and Trust has flourished. My CLEO's here had been good about it until 2 years ago and now the Chief wants to met you- fine idea to me but my paperwork has been sitting in the PD for 2 years waiting to get a call and I have called them...that is how I found out about the new requirement and this Chief has already signed 5 form 4 for me- go figure-

Longest wait for Form 4 approval

I recently did a NFA trust for a person who was waiting 12 years for approval from their local CLEO.

FBI has been taking a lot longer to run fingerprints in the last year for a number of reasons (increase in government/clearanced people is, I suspect, one of them). It took well over 3 months for my process to get completed after I'd finished the paperwork for a very basic security check.

Gun Trust Lawyer, can you provide a cite that says corporate employees can't possess corporately owned firearms? That would mean that any salesmen for class 2 firearm manufacturers couldn't possess the title II firearms they sell. Neither could security companies issue title II firearms to the guards they employ.

Phwew. I spoke with a fella from ATF last night (I had planned on simply leaving a message on his voicemail, but he picked up), and we talked for a good hour or so and then he faxed me an affidavit this morning and we were able to resolve the issue.

Thankfully! Appreciate those kind folks that sent me the email, especially James - the contact info for their counsel was invaluable. Thanks James!!!

danbrew