Martial Art that includes firearms

I like judo-no.....ju-doe-no if I have a knife and ju-doe-know if I have a gun hahaha friend of mine made that years ago.

The gun as club...

The reason for pugil stick training (uh) is that a gun makes an effective club and when festooned with a pointy sharp end can also be a spear. I recently saw a photo of a handgun with a fixed blade. I have decided that my carry piece may be used as club,billy,blackjack, sap,etc either before or after unloading as necessary. The extent of my response is dictated by the level of the threat and my personal assesment and is not open to second guessing or other input. We may discuss it afterward, but that is off topic here. I appreciate the ma practicioners who counsel "what if". I also appreciate the Boy Scouts of America who taught me to "Be prepared". I try to find the flexibility to continue the fine human trait of using tools other than our hands and "see" things around me for their usefulness as weapons. Having something in my hand is my normal condition. When empty handed I eyeball the next thing to grab or kick. I don't even think much about it any more, it just is...

That's why I pocket carry. Belt carry makes it really hard to do anything other than whip out your gun and yell "Freeze!" like Farrah Fawcett in any situation at all. With strong-side front pocket carry, you can have quite a bit of contact without your weapon coming into it.

Its difficult to pull a weapon once committed to a fight. Most fights will end up on the ground withing 30 sec. Your allowing someone to infringe withing your safe zone or you are not reading the situation correctly. No matter how big or good a fighter you are if the opponent is determined and charges chances are your on the ground. To deploy a weapon then would require to roll or kick your self away long enough to deploy your weapon. Marine corp does teach a technique but it would be hell in a crowd. Your walking dangerous ground if you wait this long to pull your weapon. Since cage fight became popular people now think this is a realistic fight, well its not. Your not wearing shoes your not gouging eyes your not biting you are not hitting someone hard with something hard. Its still a sport anything with rules is a sport. a real street fight is not.


Jim

Yep, in a real fight, anything goes. The person who fights clean is usually the one who leaves messy, and the one who fights dirty usually leaves clean.

An actual fight isn't a sport....it's the utter failure of diplomacy between two human beings, to where at least one of them has no regards at all about the other's safety, possibly their life.

Most fights will end up on the ground withing 30 sec.

Click to expand...

I'd prefer less than 3 seconds. I'd also prefer not to have my gun pop out and end up on the ground, too.

Well LJ giving some people the benifit of the doubt. I will become aggressive prior the the verbal ritual that usually happens. I also will on most occasions have a non lethal devise at the ready as soon as they become distracted. One example is when they are telling you how bad they are. Their reaction time is much slower almost 50% more.



Jim

Well LJ giving some people the benifit of the doubt. I will become aggressive prior the the verbal ritual that usually happens. I also will on most occasions have a non lethal devise at the ready as soon as they become distracted. One example is when they are telling you how bad they are. Their reaction time is much slower almost 50% more.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. But if you initiate the hostilities, you're on thin ice. Initiating non-lethal violence would be better than shooting people, I suppose, but I strongly recommend against starting fights.

You need to understand intent. If the person intentions are to rob, rape, just fight you, you then have the right to defend yourself even throwing the first punch or whatever. Intent can be brought to a head by you verbally just by issueing warnings and by noncompliance. Why would you want to wait and lose what advantage you may have.

I have to say after rereading this thread there are some here professional and other and people still trying to figure it out. A fight should never be started by you and you should avoid them to your best. If you can walk away do so. I take it there's no talking or walking out of this situation. This calls for you to be proactive. When you do so you may have to convince 12 others you were right. But thats that. I suggest you have a progressive process in place and don't put the whole dependencey on a firearm.



Jim

I suggest you have a progressive process in place and don't put the whole dependencey on a firearm.

Click to expand...

I emphatically agree with not limiting yourself to using your gun. If your Plan A is to use your gun and you have no Plan B, this is a problem. The elderly, the handicapped, and the female may need to get by on a gun, but able-bodied men will be better off, I think, if they are able to engage in contact with an opponent without being forced to bring out their guns. This is why I don't carry a gun on my belt or other insecure carry mode--you can't wrestle without your gun coming into it.


Clearly, use your judgment. But there are all kinds of people who don't need to get shot.

So LJ we agree? If so Mace, taser, eztending battton, and so forth should be tried Proactively prior to an attack? Simply from your intuition? I agree. But istead of the above mentioned weapons except the tasor I would not recomend some. Four hours of stick training along with having an umbrela or cane "will" handle most of your needs. What you need is the 4 hours but more of techniques butmore importantly when to know to use it. Recently I pulled an acheiles tenden and had to use a cane for a few days. I thought about some of my confrontations and how this cane would work and now I would brefer it over any NLW. Last thing you want to do is use your firearm but instead you want to be in the position to do so. They can take the place of most leathal incidents at least for the majority of the population. I don't under stand why its not taught in gym class.

I've been studying martial arts (Kenpo + some others as I've moved around) since 1982. My Kenpo insturctor (one I started with in 1982 & am back with) is a big gun nut so after our martial arts classes, we shoot a lot at the range and take shooting classes. We do a bit of gun take aways and have done some basic room clearing in the "karate" classes but this is mostly due to his interest in guns.

I think the best way to find an art that does firearms is to find a martial arts instructor who is into guns. Much of the stance work for the martial arts and the guns are the same.

I wouldn't get too hung up on trying to find a martial art school that teaches guns if it prooves difficult. Find a good martial art school/style and you can independently take firearms instructor at a number of well known places.

JMusic said:

So LJ we agree? If so Mace, taser, eztending battton, and so forth should be tried Proactively prior to an attack? Simply from your intuition? I agree. But istead of the above mentioned weapons except the tasor I would not recomend some. Four hours of stick training along with having an umbrela or cane "will" handle most of your needs. What you need is the 4 hours but more of techniques butmore importantly when to know to use it. Recently I pulled an acheiles tenden and had to use a cane for a few days. I thought about some of my confrontations and how this cane would work and now I would brefer it over any NLW. Last thing you want to do is use your firearm but instead you want to be in the position to do so. They can take the place of most leathal incidents at least for the majority of the population. I don't under stand why its not taught in gym class.

Click to expand...

Stick fighting is awesome and definately should be studied. Again, all part of the tools of a warrior. Outside of firearms, sticks are my number two choice of weapons to study given how practical it is. There's always a stick around. As mentinoed above, it work enviroments that don't permit weapons, a spare umbrella can be kept in your desk area just in case it rains some day.

If so Mace, taser, eztending battton, and so forth should be tried Proactively prior to an attack?

Click to expand...

I didn't endorse that and certainly nothing in my post was vague enough to permit such a reading.


Whack a guy with a baton in Texas and I suspect the TDC awaits you. Pepper spray and tasers might be different. I suspect a lot will ride on the quality of your reasoning. But if it's one on one and you strike first, I suspect that could be a problem. Talk to your lawyer (beforhand).

That's just my point you can legally do this. You do not have to let the other guy take the first swing. I suggest you google verbal judo. There is always A point during a confrontation that keys you in that there's no walking away at that point what you do is self defense. The key is you are allowed to use as much force as necessary to overcome the sitiation.

Jim

I'm one of those that believes if I am either cornered and being actively threatened, or am being actively assaulted, then defense is suitable.

If your mental/physical reaction to a threat is truly your own then you are a martial artist. You are expressing yourself martially. I find it funny that people practice someone else's art or style and say they are a martial artist.

My martial expression does most definitely include firearms.

Wheelgunslinger:


Nobody said anything about your 1, 2, or 3. At least not that I detected.


Also, I'm talking about one-on-one, two grown men who don't use walkers, neither apparently armed.

I had about 6 months of weapons takeaways in college. Instructor had belts in Jujitsu and judo. It is hard to talk about one Martial arts and not the other shooting. Because guess what can happen if you are proficient. You can take the gun away and accidentally shoot the perp. Most takeaways properly done end up with the firearm pointed at the perps chest. Discharges are common. If no one is around then you can use different techniques as simple as slapping the firearm out of their hand or simply controlling the weapon as you put the perp to the ground. Some of these techniques are harder to do than others. Just happens to be some easy one's with the danger to the perp.

One on One confrontations can easily become an apparent attack just by telling the perp not to come any closer.


Jim