TX Game warden took photos of my serials...

Status
Not open for further replies.

1987rx7guy

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
84
Location
Laredo, Tx
Ok some friends and I were out in a rural area in my friend's property doing some target shooting with a .22/.40/12ga. and the game wardens showed up. Apparently some errant shots made it past our backstop.(likely due to one of the guys being a horrible shot) They state that their office had received complaints about the stray rounds leaving my friend's property and going into theirs(neighbors) property. The wardens had previously come onto the property, when we weren't there, and checked out the backstop. They told us that it was adequate but that there was evidence on the upper parts of the backstop that there were some very high shots. We were told that the neighbors did not want to press charges for 'trespassing by projectile' at that time but that we had to correct the issue. Having it happen again would mean all of mine and my friends weapons would be confiscated, we would be fined, and we would all take a trip to jail. They then proceeded to take pictures of the two handguns, my shotgun and my AR-15 that was inside my friend's truck. My question is did they act within the law when they removed my AR from the truck/soft case to record the serial? They didn't ask who it belonged to, or specific permission to remove the AR from truck, until after they took the pictures.



Needless to say, I won't be shooting there again any time soon but I wasn't too happy about them just taking pictures but may I be out of line?
 
My guess is ( and I mean GUESS) that the game warden may have been over stepping his authority by investigating a domestic complaint and may have done an illegal search of your vehicle without permission and without a warrant.
I've been wrong before and if I am this time I'm sure I'll find out soon.:uhoh:
Joe
 
Game wardens have the authority under Texas law (though it is limited) to search without a warrant. Now, they call it "inspect" but it's a search.

To do this they need to believe that the person is or has been engaged in one of the activities under their domain like hunting, fishing etc. They do not need to have PC to believe there is a violation of the law, just that you might have been engaged in one of the activities mentioned. This law specifically excludes residences and vehicles on public roadways but it does include tents, hunting lodges, etc.

So, you were on private property, it's dove season, and a game warden "inspected" your firearms after hearing gunfire or witnessing you with guns.

I wouldn't be happy either, and it's a stretch, but most likely the warden could justify what he did.

http://law.onecle.com/texas/parks/12.102.00.html

Note in there that guns are included;

any device that may be used to hunt or catch a
wildlife resource;

And, as for the trespassing, in Texas it requires a warning from LE the first time, which you have so be very very careful from this point on.
 
Last edited:
Game wardens get a lot of latitude in Texas. My friend who is a game warden told me "every gun I see is loaded" he meant that attention is critical. Also it is the only job where he tells people to load their shotgun (to ensure it only hold two in the magazine).
 
NH is very similar. Any time you are engaged in hunting/fishing type activities the F&G officers have free reign to inspect your gear, "instruments" of the hunt, etc. even including vehicles.
For example, a person may be charged/arrested with "illegal fishing" even if the rod and reel never even leave the bed of the truck and gets wet if they are in a restricted area.....just because that rod/reel are "present" and it's an "instrument" of the illegal activity. LOTS of leeway with conservation law.

Sounds like this fell within those limitations......
 
That is a good point gc70. They would have to have something more than the neighbor's word to prosecute(maybe bullet holes in a building or such). I suppose the neighbor could file a lawsuit.
 
I would think it would be easier to find the projectile than you think if it ended up hitting a building or a vehicle. Of course they would have to tie it to a certain gun and then to a certain person in order to prosecute you, that is where I think it would get dicey for the police and prosecutor. Even if it could be shown to have come from one gun, any number of guys may have shot it (see "why guns are better than women") that day.
 
"hunt or catch a wildlife resource"

Nothing like a lawmaker to take all the beauty out of the English language.
 
gc70 said:
'trespassing by projectile' :evil: All I would say to that is to produce the evidence.

+1

Could be neighbors who don't like guns and made up the story to get you to stop. Ask the LEO if he did any investigation at all as to the veracity of the complaint.
 
I would like to see some evidence of a case where a bullet was found on somebodies property and it led to prosecution (w/o a confession ).
I am not saying that charges could not be brought up or filed , but , this is almost impossible to prosecute .

Yes a neighbor could sue a person , but , the person could also counter sue the neighbor . I wouldnt want to sue a neighbor over this b/c they could "really" be shooting dangerously next time .:evil:
 
BE careful guys and watch your back ! Always be clean and do the right thing to avoid legal hassle.
 
The solution is to make sure your backstop is sufficient under all circumstances. We are responsible for every round we fire.
 
There are more than two other property owners including the one that I personally suspect of filing the complaint(never actually met any of the neighbors) that have fired 'response' shots when we arrive and start to shoot. Normally the situation goes on for only a few minutes then stops. We usually here a few shots off in the distance(though doubtfully ever in our direction) in response to us firing off a few warm up shots. I believe it may be possible for them to have heard errant shots if and only if the guys missed the backstop completely. The wardens also stated that there was another set of people firing dangerously into brush/debris about two lots over(small ~10 acre plots) which is probably the real danger. Though mainly it might just be the amount of rounds we expend on a given session. This usually runs around 3-600 .22lr ~50-200 .40 S&W ~50-100 .223 Rem ~50-100 12 ga. So yea we do a fair amount of shooting on a given day.

The wardens mentioned taking GPS way-points and saying that they did line up with the homes/buildings on the properties where the complaints came from. But again I have never been on or even seen those properties.
 
I would like to see some evidence of a case where a bullet was found on somebodies property and it led to prosecution (w/o a confession ).

do ranges closed because of errant shots count?
 
The wardens mentioned taking GPS way-points and saying that they did line up with the homes/buildings on the properties where the complaints came from. But again I have never been on or even seen those properties.

If you have rounds deflecting off the berm, then they won't have to line up. If you have ever watched video of ricocheting machinegun tracer rounds (especially such as mini-gun rounds), you can see that even with keeping an approximate same aimpoint, the ricocheting rounds can deviate by 20-30 degrees off of the direction of travel and still continue down range. In other words, lining up isn't necessarily critical.
 
I don't see anything in that code giving game wardens jurisdictions over a range on private property. That's not a hunting activity, and a gun in the car is not a dead duck. The whole thing stinks, and if I were you I would most certainly see a lawyer about it.

Makes me appreciate Alaska, where the troopers stay on the roads unless someone actually gets murdered.
 
the state game warden/dnr officer has extremely wide latitude in their powers of search and seizure. if you read the laws carefully, in the state of michigan the DNR officer has more powers to search, seize, and arrest then the michigan state patrol does.
if a dnr officer wants to be pissy, they can go through your house, your garage, your vehicles, your garbage cans. all they have to do is say that someone on your street said you were hunting game animals out of season and they are "legal" actions on their part.
 
Regarding search of a vehicle, if the vehicle is off-road on lands commonly used for hunting or fishing, Texas Game Wardens can conduct a warrantless search without probable cause, if they have reasonable suspicion to believe that you have been involved in hunting or fishing. However, If the vehicle is on a public roadway, all regular search rules apply.

It may seem odd that your vehicle is better protected from search & seizure on a public roadway rather than private property, but the Texas Parks & Wildlife Code is screwy like that.
 
Here in arkansas that wouldn't fly. On the other hand you don't want bullets flying all over the place. That's bad form. You don't want to kill some innocent just because you have lousy compadres. You should get more accurate friends or a better backstop.
 
Sounds like someone needs to sue the pants off the Texas Parks & Wildlife people so they stop violating the 4th Amendment.
 
For example, a person may be charged/arrested with "illegal fishing" even if the rod and reel never even leave the bed of the truck and gets wet if they are in a restricted area.....just because that rod/reel are "present" and it's an "instrument" of the illegal activity. LOTS of leeway with conservation law.

Sounds like this fell within those limitations......
I'm glad I don't live in New Hampshire. I always keep a tackle box and my fishing rod in the trunk of my car. That is a pretty screwed up law if you ask me. I mean as a male I have instruments that could lead to me being a rapist, how long will it be before I can be charged with having an instrument of illegal activity. Sounds like the slippery path the law books are headed down.

To the OP, sounds like you need a better backstop or a new place to shoot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top