Anyone else going through a weird anti-tactical phase?

Meh -- I have both, I love both, and I'll probably buy more of both.

YMMV.

eye5600 said:

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What I don't understand is why so many ARs are black. I know you can get sand, or green, or camo, if you want, but for a lot of brands, it would be aftermarket and raise your total cost. Maybe Henry Ford has come back to rule the rifle business.

For a target rifle, you could have nice flag blue stock with your club insignia.

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I also have two PINK sets for future builds for my twin daughters, and a LIME GREEN set I suppose I'll find a use for some day...

Cowboys are just cooler than ninjas.

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I rest my case!

Justin writes: "Well, for starters, the AR15 has become the single most ubiquitous rifle design in nearly all forms of competitive rifle shooting where it is allowed.

The AR has come to dominate both Service Rifle and National Match competitions. It is practically the only design used by competitors shooting 3Gun or Multigun matches in any division except Heavy Metal (and even there, AR10's show up in the hands of some competitors).

For those who opt to use a rifle as a home-defense weapon, it's extremely light and easy to use for that purpose as well, and the modularity of the design allows it to be configured for whatever application you want.

Frankly, I'm just at a bit of a loss over why people deride black guns. If they aren't your thing, that's fine. But to make claims that they have little or no practical use is quite ridiculous. "

Tactical rifle competitors account for about 0.1% of all gun owners I would say. Those are "military" type matches mostly, so what else would they shoot except a civilian clone of the real thing. So that's nice to say that they are used for that, it accounts for a blip on the screen of all gun owners.

.223 varmint caliber is not a good HD round.

That's a pricey gun for HD also...

Yes, i've went down that road with that very shotgun. i had changed it over to pistol grips and a side saddle. got sick of it , went to change it back , and had lost the screw to the original stock. i went to a screw making company and had a few made...cost me a little bit lol. anyway, if you need the screw for the but stock, i think i have one extra to give away. as far as pretty wood guns go, nearly all mine are plastic, i buy the ones meant for serious business that way. others i like to look "nice". they're all tools in my opinion.

Tactical rifle competitors account for about 0.1% of all gun owners I would say. Those are "military" type matches mostly, so what else would they shoot except a civilian clone of the real thing.

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Service Rifle and National Match competitions are about the least tactical/military form of competitive shooting in existence, even if their lineage can be traced back to a military foundation. Such matches are primarily concerned with long-range accuracy on iron-sighted guns. In the modern era, High Power has about as much resemblance to a gun fight as Tai Chi does to a defending yourself with Krav Maga.

Regardless, there are plenty of other options for competing in those sorts of matches using M1 Garands, M1A pattern rifles, and of course Springfields. If the AR were truly so useless, you'd still see the top competitors running the older designs.

For MultiGun and 3Gun matches, the rules are even more wide open, and people are allowed all sorts of latitude in the rifles that they pick, yet they almost uniformly choose variants of the AR15. Heck, I even attended a long-range practical rifle match earlier this year (targets between 400-875ish yards) and saw someone running a JP LRP!

Tactical rifle competitors account for about 0.1% of all gun owners I would say.

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While they're certainly not a majority, I seriously doubt your claim.

.223 varmint caliber is not a good HD round.

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If not, why not? If the round is so bad for defensive work, why have so many police departments switched to .223 carbines for SWAT work, away from submachineguns?

That's a pricey gun for HD also...

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Eye of the beholder, I suppose.

A lot of our men and women used the AR15 platform in the military. It had it's string of followers as more and more soldiers became civilians and even for those that just appreciate military style firearms. AR15's eventually had enough demand that manufacturers started to make every custom part imaginable. Now it's one of the most customizable firearms available. You can spot a dozen AR15's at the local range at any given day and you may not see a single pair configured exactly the same. That's why they're so popular now. It's like a Burger King sandwich. I appreciate ALL firearms in one way or another but it'd be hard pressed to find another rifle that can be as comfortable as an AR15. YMMV.

It's like a Burger King sandwich.

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Or Legos.

Justin said:

Or Legos.

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If you only knew how many times I had described AR rifles and accessories as "Legos for grown-ups"...

I've been on an anti-tactical phase since I started. The only gun I own that has a black stock is my Savage Mark II because I couldn't get the one I wanted with a hardwood stock. But I even sold my plastic stock for my Mossberg in order to replace it with a wooden stock. Black is out, wood is good.

HardShell said:

I also have two PINK sets for future builds for my twin daughters, and a LIME GREEN set I suppose I'll find a use for some day...

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Now that's what I'm talkin' about. I'll take one in the grey camo, and one in the power blue.

I wouldn't say an anti-tactical phase is "weird" and I'm definitely not in one 'cause I was never really all about the black rifles. But I'd say what you're describing is happening to a lot of people who are just going back to basics. Once you realize that you're front lawn is nowhere near Baghdad you come to another realization: you don't need to cover your gun in rails or attach a ton of accessories. That's not to say those guns don't have their place for just plain fun, but unless you have a lot of disposable income a rifle should be first and foremost about utility. And for most people utility means something like a Marlin 336 not a FN SCAR.

That can really work to your advantage as the "tac" stuff is priced at a premium and the wood furniture stuff is not. For hunting or outside, jeans, jacket and boots. No need to be fancy. I started out with all traditional guns and have very little tac stuff except bags etc where it is superior to cheap stuff made for carrying books and laptops. I will likely buy one black rifle or tac shotgun just to have it. I only have one scoped rifle. I prefer iron sights as I do not take long shots.

The more I get into shooting and learning more about guns, I care less and less for the black plastic, uber-cool, newest thing anywhere stuff. I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that I don't NEED rifles like that because I don't hunt, probably never will, and will most likely be one of the many, many unfortunate souls that perish in the event of one of the doomsday scenarios we converse so much about. You can say until you're blue in the face that "I'll keep the hordes at bay with *insert cool product here*" or "I've got enough supplies to hunt my own food and hide away from everyone else"; then what? How many people like you are fighting for that one deer? How many for that last case of ammo in your "compound"? We can't even share ammo during a change of presidency. And say you do end up the last man standing? Now you're all alone in a world of crap. In comes the adage of "save the last one for myself" and you accomplished nothing but to suffer greatly before you meet the same demise you would have met when the whole mess started.

I buy the guns I like and for which I have a purpose for NOW. I have adequate defense for home and family, at home or on the go. I have a range toy or 2 and that's that.

If you like that kind of thing, then by all means, load up on ar's, glocks, and all the other tactical goodness you can get your hands on (I still like looking at all the pictures ), but let's not lose sight of reality guys. The end of mankind is the end of mankind, no matter how many cool-guy attachments you have hanging from your rifle that shoots the latest ballisti-poly-anti-material space-time tearing round.

Whoa, just looked back at what I wrote, didn't mean to be so long, and no offense intended in any fashion to anyone for any reason. Just sharing a few thoughts I've been mulling over for a while now.

Well I'm pretty sure the AR/M16/M4 platform is utiliarian, light, durable, shoots a bullet economicly. A Marlin 336 is utilitarian, light, durable, more prone to scratches, even though I love lever guns, in a basic practicality standpoin that extra movement is a waste of time and energy, opposed to semi auto to just pull the trigger for faster follow ups.

People that just slam on Black Rifles just because they are popular or just don't like them, is just plain ignorant. It's not a "useless" rifle, then there wouldn't be so many of them. It's like saying what's better a semiauto or a revolver, or metal or polymer, or blind mag or detach mag. To each his own on what is more practical or useful. Tactical has turned into a slur word around here. Tactical is just a different use of a gun, there is a whole new generation of gun owning folk where the M16/M4 platform is the first gun they really saw and know and used. Hell, I'm pretty excited that the new wave of gun guru's are so into their firearms, they may have not grown up with wheel guns or hunting rifles as many of you, and are just embracing what they are comfortable with and what they love. Some folk grew up watching John Wayne playing cowboys and Indians, some grew up watching Schwartenagger and playing G.I. Joe. You shouldn't make fun of a gun owners choice just because it doesn't fit your choices. You may like the hardwood bolt because that was your daddy's gun but someone else might like the m16 because that's what his daddy used. Alot of tactical is fluff, but alot of it is practical. What do you say to all those folks who take those shooting courses, those tactical 3 gunmatches, those carbine classes, or etc.

End of rant.

It's not a "useless" rifle, then there wouldn't be so many of them.

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No one ever said the AR platform or the tacticool accessories that seem to be ubiquitous with them are useless, just that the vast majority of the people who own them do not deal with situations that call for their many uses. So for a soldier fighting house to house in Iraq or Afghanistan an M4 is very practical and useful, but for the average civilian taking a realistic max of one trip to the range per week not so much.

It's called maturity by some, growing up by others, or maybe just getting old. I hate it, and I will resist as long as I can.

How is M4/M16 platform not practical or usefull for a civilian at a range? They shoot accurate and straight. They do well at near and far distances, low recoil which can be more forgiving to younger or female shooters, or shooters with bad shoulders. That's the whole goal of going to the range for the average civilian. AR style rifles are popular at iron sight shooting competitions. The look or style of a firearm does not effect is ability to shoot a bullet. Some say a 13 lb $3000 scoped bolt action may not be very practical or useful. A majority of these comments don't really have anything bad to say about Black Rifles except that it's practicality and performance is based of it's looks.

I like traditional & tacticool

What I don't like seeing is a bunch of unused rails, or worse, opening up a publication that consistently puts too much merchandise on the rails. If it has a function besides looking nifty then hey, no problem.

I have a tacticool AK, and would like a couple more (they're so customizable) but would like one traditional AK with nice build quality and wood.

I have a paratrooper SKS that will become modified more, but my favorite is a chicom SKS with nice wood, bayonet, and factory 20rd. mag.

My Mosin is modded with a D&T mount, scope, and bent handle conversion. Thought about an ATI stock, but you know, I like it as is.

One realization:
Traditional sporting stocks are so much better ergonomically because when hunting you spend most of your time unshouldered; they are more comfortable to hold at your waist or otherwise.

I diverted prepayment on a SIG 556 to a Wild West guide gun - does that count as "anti-tactical"?

Actually, I just got fed up waiting on the SIG but the lever action is fun.

Anyone else going through a wierd anti-tactical phase?

I've been in that phase for...

...well, forever. The tacticool gear leaves me cold. A good polymer pistol doesn't bother me. I have a Vanguard with a synthetic stock. But all the rails, black plastic, lights, etc just don't trip my trigger.

All -

Two words.

"Gun Bling."


isher

Anyone else going through a wierd anti-tactical phase?

I did for a while...then I came to my senses.

Seriously though, my "anti-tactical" phase mainly revolved around getting tired of worrying about "this light vs that light," "how should I mount this or that to my SG or handgun," etc., etc.

In essence, the look of such weaponry has never bothered me and probably never will. Its just that, for me, the questions and issues surrounding "tactical" weapons and their accessories has grown somewhat tiresome. Hence, I have lost the lights, "tactical" 1-point sling mounts, shell carriers (at least those being receiver mounted), picatinny rails, etc., and have opted for a more "stripped down" and "clean" look.

Now, if I had an AR or something to that effect, then Id probably go full-bore with the "tactical" stuff. After all, to me, such a weapon is just begging to be made "tacticool." But, for my current handguns and shotguns...its essentially back to basics.

No! I reject the assertion that anti-tactical is weird.

I like old guns, new guns .. just about all guns, but the only tactical thing I've done lately is to position the bag of Cheez Twisties next to the TV remotes without knocking over my can of Orange Crush ..