50GI vs 10mm vs .45 vs 454 casull Balistic Testing with Pics

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This is pretty interesting ..i thought i should post it..

Had some extra time on my hands yesterday so i took a few hrs at the range to do some of my own Balistic comparison testing using 3 sets of wet soapy phone books submerged for 1hr measuring a total of 17inches per stack..And below i have posted some pics of the depth results and expansions...My velocities might not be accurate since my guns are not full length in size so you might wanna average a few hundred fps less than what is listed below..All tests were shot from a distance of 17ft...I will list from best to worst..From my tests the best expansion was the 50GI SCHP which measured 1.05" Shot from Glock21SF .50GI conversion 4.6" Barrel...2nd place 454 Casull Barnes X HP,expanded .65" ,Shot from Ruger Alaskan 2" Snub...3rd place 10mm Federal HydraShock expanded .63" Shot from Glock29 3.7" barrel.... 4th place The Gold Dot and Magtech .45 both expanded at .50" Shot from Glock21sf 4.6" Barrel... 5th place The Winchester SXT expanded at .48" Shot from Glock21SF 4.6" Barrel...and the Aguila had no Expansion when shot from Glock21SF 4.6" Barrel..The Aguila bullet is a fragmenting bullet that is suppose to fragment into 3 pieces when impacting soft tissue...In this case nothing happened so i gave it last place...As for penetration I have it listed below with the pics..The penetration results i tried to take exact measurements since it was hard to do this with a measuring tape using phone books..The Best penetration so far that i have seen from my guns is the .454casull penetrating at a whopping 15"......Hope you guys enjoy the pics and feel free to comment.
 

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I feel like I need something in .50 GI.

People say "Why would you need that? Its basically just a heavier, slightly larger .45 ACP!"

My answer, because its a heavier, slightly larger .45 ACP :D
 
Thanx everyone for commenting..As far as i am concerned for personal protection..They all will do the job just fine..Its just that the 50gi kinda sweetens the deal a little better with its wider expansion..
 
Wow. That .50 GI round opens up like some kind of high drag low altitude air to ground munition. That's a really interesting bullet design regardless of the caliber. We are excited. Thanks for your work.
 
Uhm, no, because the .50 GI is designed to work at 1911 .45 ACP pressures (low velocity, low recoil), while .40 S&W were FAR higher than 9mm Parabellum pressures.

Low pressures yes, but lower pressures do NOT equal lower recoil. I guarantee a 185gr bullet at 1200fps is going to develop much more recoil than the 125gr/1100fps 9mm load I carry. Its a matter of bullet weight and velocity not pressure.
 
Low pressures yes, but lower pressures do NOT equal lower recoil. I guarantee a 185gr bullet at 1200fps is going to develop much more recoil than the 125gr/1100fps 9mm load I carry. Its a matter of bullet weight and velocity not pressure.
What you describe is a +P equivalent load.

Standard 300 grain rolls out at 700 FPS, and the "185 grain equivalent" does about 900 FPS, if I recall correctly.

1200 FPS is for .50 A&E, not .50 GI, friend.
 
Quote "1200 FPS is for .50 A&E, not .50 GI, friend" (DougDubya)

Wrong!
Look at the 50 GI ammo box label in picture from JeanClaudeSegal:
185 grain CHP at 1200 fps.
That's about 600 FPE in a Glock with a .50 cal. bullet that expands to 1" - awesome!

Lincoln78
 
There's no point debating 'objective' recoil--e.g., ft. lbs, whatever. These rounds apparently not chronographed in these particular firearms--so there is no telling, really, what fps each was running.

Velocity issues aside, it is a very interesting study of penetration depths from various cartridges.

Jim H.
 
Doug Dubya is correct on the 300gr 50gi rounds they are rated at 700fps and is slower in comparison with the 50Gi Copper Hollow Points Traveling at 1200fps..here is a professional balistics test done by brass fetcher on the 50gi http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page729.htm .....But i only use the 300gr as practice rounds just like you would with the winchester 100round white box you get at wally world for the .45acp..The 50AE gold dots go around 1550fps according to Speer here is the link http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23995 ..It is also a very powerful round...The Desert Eagle is a cool show gun with alot of bang to it.but it also limits you to only 6+1rounds and you can probably never carry it as a concealed weapon just because of its size and weight....The 50Gi can hold anywhere from 9+1 to 17+1 with a Hi cap mag and it is very concealable either in a 1911 frame or Glock 21 or G20sf frames..I have also posted a pic below with the 50gi High cap mag
 

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Ah. I was just saying that the 1200 fps defeated the purpose of the .50 GI in that the .50 was meant to be a gentle cartridge that fit inside a 1911, with mass of bullet making up for lower velocities.

Not saying I wouldn't love 185 grains at 1200 fps dearly, especially at the half-inch size, just that the original design philosophy was throwing BIG and HEAVY bullets at moderate speed.

Still... JeanClaude, your .50 Glock with a full 17... yeah, that's what I want when the Terminators attack.

(Note: I put a bunch of .50 GI pistols in the hands of the heroes of one of my Stony Man novels a while back.)
 
I think ill need more than my 50gi if we get a terminator attack..Maybe a few light sabers from starwars and some phaser guns out of that Halo video game..
 
125gr/1100fps 9mm load I carry. Its a matter of bullet weight and velocity not pressure.
What you describe is a +P equivalent load.

Standard 300 grain rolls out at 700 FPS, and the "185 grain equivalent" does about 900 FPS, if I recall correctly.

1200 FPS is for .50 A&E, not .50 GI, friend.

Listen, "friend", you should really try getting all you info correct. In the pics provided by the OP he lists a 185gr GI load at 1200 fps. Subsequently, it was said that the GI loads being "lower pressure" had less recoil . Regardless of the load, if its a 300gr or a 185gr, recoil is a factor of bullet weight and velocity NOT pressure. If you wish to correct the velocity numbers given by the OP than correct the OP not me, "friend".


Unless you are saying that a 300gr 50GI at 700 FPS recoils less than a 147 9mm at the same velocity because it is at a "lower pressure" than the 9mm than you would just be flat out wrong.
 
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Listen, "friend", you should really try getting all you info correct. In the pics provided by the OP he lists a 185gr GI load at 1200 fps. Subsequently, it was said that the GI loads being "lower pressure" had less recoil . Regardless of the load, if its a 300gr or a 185gr, recoil is a factor of bullet weight and velocity NOT pressure. If you wish to correct the velocity numbers given by the OP than correct the OP not me, "friend".


Unless you are saying that a 300gr 50GI at 700 FPS recoils less than a 147 9mm at the same velocity because it is at a "lower pressure" than the 9mm than you would just be flat out wrong.
Your politeness does you no favors, "friend."

I was talking "low recoil" in comparison with the .50 A&E and .500 S&W which are completely impractical for rapid fire target engagement, and lower recoil than .357 or .44 Magnum defensive rounds.

The .50 GI was meant to fall within the same recoil envelope as a .45 ACP round so that someone could actually use it to put two into one target, or engage multiple opponents quickly.

That's what Dick Metcalf wrote down in an interview with Guncrafter Industries the five or so years ago when this cartridge first came out, and going 1200 fps for 185 grains is pretty neat for taking a deer, but is going to slow you down getting back on target - THUS defeating the original purpose of the .50 GI, which was NOT to be another uncontrollable Magnum but an actual effective combat pistol.

Yes, it will recoil more than a 9mm. I never said it's going to recoil less than a 9mm of any type.

Oh... and by the way, you're copying more than one person's post. Does not being an expert mean you absolutely HAVE to misquote and misrepresent what someone is saying, or are you just throwing in an incapacity to follow someone's argument as a free bonus?
 
Sorry, didn't realize you were above reproach.


I copied your entire post, where you quoted ME and your response. You should be able to comprehend what your post was. I didn't "misqoute" you, I copied and pasted. ( YOUR post at #11 since you seem to have forgotten)

If your going to quote ME I never mentioned 50AE. I clearly stated what I referred to. In post #3 you appear to state that power pressures are indicative of lower recoil. If that was not your intent, than you should try to write a bit more clearly. If it was then you were wrong and you are attacking me for it. Thanks.
 
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It's hard to believe the 45acp penitrated more than the 10mm. I always thought the 10 would pen. more.
This verifies what I suspected...the .45 will out penetrate the 10mm (most likely) due to the increased weight and momentum of the grand old round.

If you don't mind, I'm going to copy your test results to show to some of my friends who think that anything developed more than 30 years ago is outdated and inferior to todays high performance cartridges.
 
That's because of the two 10mm loads tested, one was designed specifically for low penetration (135gr nosler), and the other was downloaded to .40S&W territory (180gr hydrashock). A 180gr projectile out of a full power 10mm load should be doing at least 1300fps, not 1030.
 
Sorry, didn't realize you were above reproach.


I copied your entire post, where you quoted ME and your response. You should be able to comprehend what your post was. I didn't "misqoute" you, I copied and pasted. ( YOUR post at #11 since you seem to have forgotten)

If your going to quote ME I never mentioned 50AE. I clearly stated what I referred to. In post #3 you appear to state that power pressures are indicative of lower recoil. If that was not your intent, than you should try to write a bit more clearly. If it was then you were wrong and you are attacking me for it. Thanks.
jon -

okay - we got off on the wrong foot there.

You said a .50 GI would Kaboom a Glock. The .50 GI is loaded, as per Guncrafter Industries' original intent, at the same range as .45 ACP.

9mm is loaded to a SAAMI general average of 33,000 psi.
.45 ACP is loaded to a SAAMI general average of a mere 18,000 psi.
The .50 GI goes even lower on average to 15,000 psi.

It also is stated, in the Guncrafter Industries statement for the page:

The concept was to create a practical 50 caliber 1911 without unnecessary bulk and weight but with the benefits of increased knockdown power while still being completely controllable during rapid fire. The design of the M1 is such that recoil is controllable even with the more powerful round. The 50GI was intended primarily as a self-defense round but is still very versatile and can be loaded to higher or lower levels if desired. Our standard power factory round drives a 300gr. bullet at 700-725fps, which translates into a 210 power factor. Felt recoil of this offering is comparable to a 230gr. .45ACP hardball factory round. Another of our factory loads drives a 275gr. bullet at 875fps which delivers even more serious stopping power downrange while having felt recoil similar to a 10mm.

The company that invented the cartridge isn't talking about going about 900 fps with its regular loads.

The 1300 fps 185 grainer .50 GI round was what I was talking about - which is trying to turn the .50 GI 1911 and .50 GI Glock 21 conversions into a .50 A&E. While 185/1300 is a golly gee whiz cracker of a cartridge - it ain't fit the concept of putting the most projectile into the target.

Now, if we were putting a 147 grainer at 1300 fps, then we'd be talking something pretty interesting in a 9mm (more likely a really hot loaded .357 SIG). However, if you're going to put down bad folks with a 9mm, 115-127 grain hollowpoints stepping out at the 1200-1300 range has been doing its job quite well, and without overpenetration.
 
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