a1abdj
Member
Poured wet, then cures. It's hard, but not nearly as hard as the composites used in burglary safes. Hard to describe, but it kind of reminds me of lava rock.
Gun Safes: Looking for a recommendation
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Poured wet, then cures. It's hard, but not nearly as hard as the composites used in burglary safes. Hard to describe, but it kind of reminds me of lava rock.
a1abdj
Member
It's going to account for a lot of the weight. I have never held a loose chunk of it. I have only seen it through the blow openings (where they inject it) in the doors. I would imagine its heavier than lava rock, but similar to the lava rock, traps air inside of its pores.
Ok, thanks for the info. Sounds like an interesting product, as well as an interesting process. I know when I was talking with Sturdy, Terry told me that they were making safes that came with holes. Once the safe was in place, the customer could pour the walls full of concrete.
Anyway, he said it didn't go over well for obvious reasons. Sounded rather crude to me.
Anyway, he said it didn't go over well for obvious reasons. Sounded rather crude to me.
The first thing you need to decide is whether you want a "safe" or a "locker".
Check out this video of what I call a "locker".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M
Check out this video of what I call a "locker".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M
I was surprised by the lack of MAP for AMSEC's safes. Internet prices are 40-45% below MSRP. I'm used to seeing MAP strictly enforced especially on successful product lines.
On the opposite end Fort Knox safes it's difficult to find any prices including MSRP (which may not even exist). The local major dealer for Fort Knox safes I did get a quote for a 6026 (Textured/Defender/Elec. lock) for ~$2,000 and a 6031 for ~$2,300. These safes were great looking and had convenient features. I can see many a customer buying these instead of an AMSEC, Sturdy or other no-named brand, especially if one were unaware or unconcerned about construction differences.
The above mentioned seller www.safes4you.com probably would have better prices, but how much you would have to call then compare.
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Wow that guys prices are good.
My dealer quoted me 2399.00 for a BF 6636 with a mechanical lock and textured paint.
Another dealer in town wanted 2830.00 for the same safe.
Big difference.
Just remember this though guys...A dealer worth spit will stand behind the safe if it comes delivered and after they pull the box and plastic wrap off of it they find it dented because the shipper tipped it over or worse yet when that happened it fired the relocker.
Or perhaps when it's uncrated you have a big scratch on the door.
There is a much bigger hassle for you though if you have that same safe drop shipped and discover this once you get it into the house.
Just something to think about.
My dealer quoted me 2399.00 for a BF 6636 with a mechanical lock and textured paint.
Another dealer in town wanted 2830.00 for the same safe.
Big difference.
Just remember this though guys...A dealer worth spit will stand behind the safe if it comes delivered and after they pull the box and plastic wrap off of it they find it dented because the shipper tipped it over or worse yet when that happened it fired the relocker.
Or perhaps when it's uncrated you have a big scratch on the door.
There is a much bigger hassle for you though if you have that same safe drop shipped and discover this once you get it into the house.
Just something to think about.
a1abdj
Member
Old round door burglary safes that used to be popular in gas stations worked like this. The safe was heavy plate, but only about 10" square. The body of the safe was 3' tall. They would ship the safe hollow, and then you would fill it with concrete once it was installed. Your 500 pound safe now weighed 2,500 pounds.
There are a lot of differences between dealers if you look around.
A very common thing I notice with the internet dealers is the shipping time. They sell for less, but it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get your safe. I charge more, but around 90% of what I sell arrives to you within 5 business days of your order.
The price one charges is only part of the equation.
I think these gun safe prices are all over the board.a1abdj
Member
I do not know this company, but I wonder if he has that many safes, if he enjoys distributor status from AMSEC.
If that's the case, why is he retailing? Then again, he may not be a distributor, but just likes buying a lot of safes.
I do most of my gun safe business through distributors. Warehouse full or not, it's not worth it from a retail standpoint. You do get a volume discount from any supplier, but I would bet that the vast majority of gun safes sold sell for under $1,500. I get calls every day wanting to know what I have for $500. On the flip side of that, my average commercial customer spends 5 figures with me.
Instead of starting a new thread, I am going to jump in on this one. Here is my thought process on getting ready to buy a new residential security container.
It is pretty much down to either a Sturdy Safe or a AMSEC BF6636. I can pretty much get both of them for about the same price, if I order either directly from Sturdy, or from safes4you.com. Both of those choices include curbside delivery and I feel that they are probably equally comparable in fire resistance and burglary resistance.
The main difference to me is that the AMSEC seems to have a lot nicer fit and finish than the Sturdy. The Sturdy seems a little more no frills than the AMSEC.
I am still undecided about which safe I will buy between the two, but more concerned about how I will get it where I want in the garage without some serious assistance as both of these are extremely heavy safes. That part almost makes it worthwhile to pay more to get the BF from a local company. The bad part is that I would save almost $1000 or more by going with the out of state companies.
Decisions, decisions...
It is pretty much down to either a Sturdy Safe or a AMSEC BF6636. I can pretty much get both of them for about the same price, if I order either directly from Sturdy, or from safes4you.com. Both of those choices include curbside delivery and I feel that they are probably equally comparable in fire resistance and burglary resistance.
The main difference to me is that the AMSEC seems to have a lot nicer fit and finish than the Sturdy. The Sturdy seems a little more no frills than the AMSEC.
I am still undecided about which safe I will buy between the two, but more concerned about how I will get it where I want in the garage without some serious assistance as both of these are extremely heavy safes. That part almost makes it worthwhile to pay more to get the BF from a local company. The bad part is that I would save almost $1000 or more by going with the out of state companies.
Decisions, decisions...
The first thing I asked was how I was going to move any safe in the house and properly bolt it down. It looks like there are a lot of handy people here and they'll be fine. I'm not one of them.
If you ever hurt your back or anyone helping you move it in, that $1,000 would suddenly look cheap.
As an option, see if you can find a local dealer that'll do better than MSRP. I'd also look to see if they're a SAVTA member or have an established reputation especially regarding their delivery people. JMO.
I to had narrowed by selections down to either a Sturdy, or an AMSEC 6030. I have decided that I am going for the AMSEC. I simply cannot get past how ugly the Sturdy safes are. They are a great safe as far as how well they are built, but they are just plain ugly. Do looks matter when what you really want is security? It does for me since I will be looking at it everyday. I am totally into features, and not foof, as far as making my decision. But, when I can get either brand RSC for about the same price, and the features are close in comparison.....I'm getting the one that looks best, and that's AMSEC. The Sturdy safes are built rugged, but man they look home made to me.
I'm not too worried about any of that. I own and operate a construction business and have been moving heavy objects for years. I'm going to have the freight driver drop the safe right in the bucket of my front end loader to move it from the curb to my shop. I will then grab some employees, and move the thing right in the house. If four of us can't pack the safe into the house with the door off, then something has to be wrong. Actually, I will most likely use a moving dolly.
I will be installing my safe in our small walk in closet. The closet is a little wider, and of course taller than the safe. It will be at one end. After it is bolted into place, I plan on framing a wall straight across the front of the safe, and over the top. I will then sheet rock it, and tape, texture, and paint it. When I'm done, only the front of the safe (the door) will be exposed, and the sides and top will be boxed in. A little oak trim around the front opening, and it will be built into the wall. Plus, it will provide a little something extra for a thief to demo before getting to the sides.
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I think you have the amsec vs sturdy down pretty good - the amsec is definitely the more attractive of the two (but the sturdy isn't THAT ugly in person guys, it certainly doesn't look home made).
I wouldn't sweat moving it in too much. I paid a local safe technician $250 to move mine in the house (incl up 2 stairs to the front door). In your garage, you probably won't need this - the truck driver will typically move it into the garage on a pallet jack. Then you would have to get it off the pallet and move it into place. I've found movers sliders work well for moving it around a small space. The hardest part will be getting it off the pallet.
I think the interior is more of where I can see a difference between the Sturdy and the AMSEC. I have not seen a sturdy in person, but the AMSEC that I saw was pretty nice and the pictures of the Sturdy interiors could probably stand an upgrade. I know that is probably something I could do later, but I would rather not mess with it if I don't have to. Either way, I feel like I can't go wrong.
Yes, the interior of the sturdy is pretty Spartan. This doesn't bother me, but if it's an issue for you then go with the amsec.
I guess it depends on your attitude - to me, a gun safe is for utility, i don't view it as a piece of furniture. I have it placed in a location where casual guests don't see it. The only people othe than me who see the inside of my safe are my shooting buddies - and they're a pretty easy group to impress!
I decided yesterday to not cancel my BF 6636 order.
I truely wished i could have at least seen a Sturdy up front but alas it doesn't look like that's possible and i just can't buy something at that price sight unseen.
I made a mistake in an earlier post.
My dealer is charging me 2299.00 for the textured BF with mechanical lock 6636 not 2399.00 i mentioned before.
They will install it and bolt it down with two half inch Redhead anchors for 300.00.
The other safe dealer wanted 2830.00 for the safe and 200.00 to install it.
So hopefully my BF will be in soon and I can retire my older and much smaller Amsec to my brothers house.
I truely wished i could have at least seen a Sturdy up front but alas it doesn't look like that's possible and i just can't buy something at that price sight unseen.
I made a mistake in an earlier post.
My dealer is charging me 2299.00 for the textured BF with mechanical lock 6636 not 2399.00 i mentioned before.
They will install it and bolt it down with two half inch Redhead anchors for 300.00.
The other safe dealer wanted 2830.00 for the safe and 200.00 to install it.
So hopefully my BF will be in soon and I can retire my older and much smaller Amsec to my brothers house.
a1abdj
Member
This is below my wholesale cost. I can't see how these guys can sell these safes at these prices.
They obviously know something you don't. Does it have anything to do with buying in large volume? Do they get a really good discount doing that? I chatted with the guy at Safes4You.com again. He has three warehouses all full of safes. He said he owns the buildings, owns the property they sit on, and he owns all the safes. He said it took him years in the business to where he could operate this way. He said he stocks all the safes on his web site.
Like you, he really dislikes all these online safe stores that sell safes, and show nice white vans delivering them. When in all actuality, they are just some guy sitting at home shuffling paper work.
a1abdj
Member
As in any business, the more you buy, the larger discount you get. If the guy is placing single $100,000 orders he is probably getting them for less than I am, but I've seen the price sheets that break down the discount based on the purchase amount. Whoever is selling them for that is not making much.
Regardless, it doesn't matter. If the list price is X, and the average retail price is 70% of X, why would you sell it for 50% of X?
I'll be calling AMSEC on Monday to bitch.
Update on my Diamond Back Safe
My Diamond Back GS5930H was delivered on Tuesday. It was shipped direct from Cobalt from Augusta, SC. The delivery company did drop the ball on Monday - never showed up during the 1-5 pm window, but they did meet at a specific time the next day. The driver was very helpful and helped get it from the 48' truck onto my utility trailer and then into my garage (we would never have gotten the truck down the driveway).
Safe looks great and was a great deal at $810 + $140 shipping. The seller was both very helpful and courteous and unprofessional and silly all at once. I'm confident I got a good deal and have no security concerns.
Now, to get it from the garage to the basement (where it will be semi-hidden in a corner - I didn't buy it to show it off, as someone here suggested). I thought about renting an appliance dolly or stair climber, but opted to bite the bullet and pay a local mover $250 to do the job for me.
My Diamond Back GS5930H was delivered on Tuesday. It was shipped direct from Cobalt from Augusta, SC. The delivery company did drop the ball on Monday - never showed up during the 1-5 pm window, but they did meet at a specific time the next day. The driver was very helpful and helped get it from the 48' truck onto my utility trailer and then into my garage (we would never have gotten the truck down the driveway).
Safe looks great and was a great deal at $810 + $140 shipping. The seller was both very helpful and courteous and unprofessional and silly all at once. I'm confident I got a good deal and have no security concerns.
Now, to get it from the garage to the basement (where it will be semi-hidden in a corner - I didn't buy it to show it off, as someone here suggested). I thought about renting an appliance dolly or stair climber, but opted to bite the bullet and pay a local mover $250 to do the job for me.
How much do you charge for a BF6636? Any cheaper than what I saw on the website listed in your signature?
a1abdj
Member
The prices on the AMSEC gun safes also include shipping to most parts of the country. So yes, the safes are actually priced lower.
I also offer discounts to forum members, but am still not anywhere near what some of these guys are giving them away for. Even if I was making $100 (which I wouldn't be, since they are selling them for less than my cost...maybe I should have them fill my orders), it wouldn't be worth it.
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