Min. Cal. for elephant

W L Johnson · Oct 9, 2009

Strange question just popped up in my head.
What is considered the min caliber for elephant? In other words, what is the min cal needed to penetrate their skull, which I assume is what is aimed at.

Which also brings up another question, all the so called "elephant guns" I have seen are very high powered bolt actions, what effect, if any, would, lets say an AR-10 in 308 have? Seems like a mag full of 308 would have some effect. If you could empty your mag before being turned into "toe jam" :what:

that is.

thanks

ArmedBear · Oct 9, 2009

Re-post this in "hunting." There are guys here who have shot elephants, and have opinions that are meaningful.

Let's just say that a magazine full of .308 doesn't penetrate any better than one round of .308...

Ditch-Tiger · Oct 9, 2009

If you are talking about hunting...
I know the minimum legal hunting cartridge will be mandated by the country you are hunting in.

Eightball · Oct 9, 2009

IIRC, some dude took down an incredible number of them with a 7mm, loaded with solids.

Doesn't mean it's a good caliber for it, it is just what he used, and it was close to the turn of the century.

rcmodel · Oct 9, 2009

The minimum caliber now is determined by the game laws of the country you are hunting in.

Back in the day, professional ivory hunters racked up tremendous kill numbers using 6.5x55 Mannlichers and 7mm Mauser's.

Today, ivory poachers kill them with AK-47's and FAL's.

Heck, somebody supposedly once killed a circus elephant with a .22RF Short.

I believe most country's that still allow elephant hunting now have a minimum of something like .416 Magnum or similar old English big game calibers.

rc

W L Johnson · Oct 9, 2009

Let's just say that a magazine full of .308 doesn't penetrate any better than one round of .308

Will 308 penetrate the skull or just give them a headache?

gvnwst · Oct 9, 2009

IIRC, some dude took down an incredible number of them with a 7mm, loaded with solids.

Bell, with a .275 Ridgby.

Like Ditch-Tiger said, most countries have mininum bullet diameters for shooting dangerous game. For the most part, that is either .375 caliber or .416 caliber.

rcmodel · Oct 9, 2009

The trick to killing an elephant is knowing exactly where to hit them, and then doing it.

If you hit the spot, a .308 will kill them.

If you don't hit the spot, a .458 Mag may not do it.

rc

W L Johnson · Oct 9, 2009

Back in the day, professional ivory hunters racked up tremendous kill numbers using 6.5x55 Mannlichers and 7mm Mauser's.

Today, ivory poachers kill them with AK-47's and FAL's.

Well, that tells me that 308 will work.
What part of the elephant do they aim for.

rcmodel · Oct 9, 2009

You are making me nervous now?

What do you have in mind, and does it involve a zoo?

rc

ArmedBear · Oct 9, 2009

Well, that tells me that 308 will work.

That would depend on the bullet. None of the .308 you have at your house right now would do.

They aim for a baseball-sized spot through somewhere behind the ear, from what I understand.

Seriously, why not re-post this in the Hunting forum where there are people who can speak from experience?

briansmithwins · Oct 9, 2009

I've seen video of 2 cops killing a rampaging elephant with 9mmP handguns.

From the sounds of things (on the video) I would say it takes about 40-60 9mm Parabellum rounds to kill a elephant. BSW

W L Johnson · Oct 9, 2009

Seriously, why not re-post this in the Hunting forum where there are people who can speak from experience?

I was going to do that, but answers started flowing in before I could. Thanks guys.

browningguy · Oct 9, 2009

Most countries have a minimum of .375 H&H although a few will allow the 9.3 x 74R and 9.3x62 as they are considered near equal European calibers.

W L Johnson · Oct 9, 2009

You are making me nervous now?

Just harmless curiosity, now replace elephant with T-Rex :evil:

Mods, feel free to move this to hunting if you wish.

Wes Janson · Oct 9, 2009

Ten seconds of this Youtube video completely destroys the claims made by some in this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmoyCgDn2xM

And based on the timeframe of the footage, it's a virtual certainty that he's shooting 147gr FMJ.

redneck2 · Oct 9, 2009

I'm pretty certain Howard Hill and Fred Bear both killed them with stick and string. I know Hill got his with a long bow.

ArmedBear · Oct 9, 2009

From the sounds of things (on the video) I would say it takes about 40-60 9mm Parabellum rounds to kill a elephant. BSW

It probably only took one, but that many rounds to hit the right spot.

Those old ivory hunters could hit that spot with one.

oneounceload · Oct 9, 2009

Elephants are taken with brain shots, not heart/lung shots - mostly at distances around 50 yards with a (usually) minimum caliber of 375 H&H. A double rifle capable of that caliber or larger has been the traditional weapon of choice, followed in more modern times by bolt actions, especially in one of the various 416 flavors.

Walter "Karamojo"Bell was the gentleman who killed quite a few elephants in the early part of the last century.

everallm · Oct 9, 2009

Returning to the minima size caliber that HAS taken down elephants, .303 Lee-Enfield is definitely one of them

DIM · Oct 9, 2009

with .338 Lapua Magnum you can't go wrong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Lapua_Magnum

"In addition to its military role, it is increasingly used by hunters and civilian long-range shooting enthusiasts. The .338 Lapua Magnum is capable of taking down any game animal, though its suitability for some dangerous game (Cape buffalo, hippopotamus, white rhinoceros and elephant) is arguable, unless accompanied by a larger "backup" caliber: "There is a huge difference between calibers that will kill an elephant and those that can be relied upon to stop one."[4] Certain sub-Saharan Africa countries have a 9.53 mm (.375 in) minimum caliber rule for hunting the Big Five. It also cannot be used in countries which ban civil use of former or current military rifle cartridges."

Isher · Oct 9, 2009

You are all (somewhat) blowing smoke.

Preferred weapon of ivory poachers these days is the RPG.

isher

tactikel · Oct 9, 2009

The .303 with solids has take hundreds if not thousands of elephants in years past. Most regs now state that .40 is the minimum cal (sorry .375 H&H).
I also have read of a professional hunter in the pre-war days that took over 1000 elephants with a 7mm Mauser.
If you are spending $30K on a safari get a good rifle ( .416 rigby or remington, .458 win. or weatherby, or a .500 nitro express!)

Acera · Oct 9, 2009

Isher wrote:

Preferred weapon of ivory poachers these days is the RPG.

You got a reference for that?? I would suspect the replacement cost of an RPG is a lot greater than that of a magazine full of AK rounds, and not as easy to use.

Isher · Oct 9, 2009

Acera -

Here's an overall view:

http://www.stephenbrookes.com/featu...ong-kong-a-hidden-trail-of-illegal-ivory.html

As the article states, there is a lot of military weaponry loose in Africa.

I've read perhaps twenty articles in the last five years which cite

The RPG as an "elephant gun." Not to say that assault rifles

Are not used equally, if not more.

isher

Min. Cal. for elephant

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