1911's, why so expensive?

Ill second that, the LancerMW. I got this STI Spartan in a trade deal and it shoots so good its almost boring. This $650.00 gun will out shoot (or as good as) guns three times the amount. I don't think that $400 off the rack guns will do that. I got a Taurus SS 1911 (same price) that has all the bells and whistles but there is a noticeable difference in the way it shoots as is the fit of the parts. Plus no MIM.

The 1911 is as expensive as it is because it is an old design, first made back when labor was inexpensive. There's a lot more machining that goes into a 1911 than into a Glock, for example. This costs more to do, so that cost has to be passed on to the consumer, otherwise the company making the product can't make a profit and stay in business.

And it's not all cache. That might be true with, say, a Harley-Davidson motorcycle -- in fact I'm sure it is, because in terms of quality or performance, I can't see where a Harley is so much better than a Honda as to warrant costing as much more as it does. But only a Harley has that name, that cache, and that unique Harley sound, and people are willing to pay more for it. And they can only get those things from a Harley.

It's not like that with the 1911. The design's patents have long since expired, and there's a huge number of manufacturers turning them out. So while only Harley Davidson can make a Harley, a 1911 can be made by Colt, S&W, Springfield Armory, Rock Island Arsenal, Kimber, Taurus, Dan Wesson, Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Doublestar, Nighthawk, Rock River, Para Ordnance, Olympic Arms, etc. etc. The field is so competitive that you can't get unduly expensive compared to the quality of the product, or another manufacturer at your quality level will undercut your price, and you won't be able to sell your version; buyers will go elsewhere.

There are 1911s available from around $600 to several thousand. How much you will pay for a particular example all depends on what level of quality, and what features you want.

BCPerry I've looked at other boards and it appears that the American Classic II and the Firestorm are built by the same company and imported from the phillipines. Some guys are saying they are finding them for under $400. And that ain't all, they appear to have alot of semi custom improvements out of the box.

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Mine came with skelontonized hammer and trigger, flared and lowered ejection port and Novak style sights.

Plus, all the accessories for the more expensive models will fit it.

If someone prefers the more expensive models, I don't take issue with that.

I just prefer to purchase the lesser expensive, good quality firearms because it allows me to own more of them!

Pus, it allows me more money for accessories and ammo!

To each his own, isn't America great!

We do not all have to be equal as this administration is so striving for us to be.

I see all the 1911 companies saying, " best price around. Cheapest price. "

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I've been in the market for a 1911 for years now, but I haven't ever seen or heard a 1911 maker ever claim anything at all about their prices.

To answer the OP, and IMHO, quality is valuable.

Oops, I never answered the question. Its because we are willing to pay for it.
The 1911 is to the gun world what the common cold is to the pharmaceuticals.
Do they have a cure to the common cold? Yes. Are there superior guns than the 1911? Yes. If you cure the cold pharm-co's lose money. If people would stop spending ridiculous amounts of money on 1911's gun co's, gun smiths and gun rags would hurt.
Look I like the 1911 as much if not more than most. Heck I own several myself but if it takes 15 to 25 hundred dollars to make this gun a superior fighting handgun then I know of many others that can fit the bill for a whole lot less money. While we might not like Glocks, Sigs, S&W's they get the job done as accurately and for less money.

Obama and a democratic congress.
We are coming off one of the biggest binge buying of firearms ever, and ammunition.

On the other hand, it's really a depression, and, the used market is being flooded with handguns, though at sort of high prices.

As the combination of folks having to sell guns to live, and the production stays high, prices should drop to sane levels.

Reeder has mentioned people are buying 300 dollar rifles, and, that's about it, except for ammunition.

Our local Collectible firearms store is so flooded, I'm seeing guns I have not EVER, in the last 15 years.

A good example of this gun buying madness is the Dan Wesson 1911 Bobtail. I've wanted one for a long time, and been watching the prices.
Started at 803, IIRC, and, it's now at 999 Buds. This price increase happened just before the election last year, and, that extra 200 bucks is nothing but speculation, either by CZ, or, by Buds. My money is on Buds.

I can understand raising prices when you can't get guns. You need all the profit you can on the few you sell. When the market is dormant, you have to drop the prices to motivate wise buyers to open their wallets.

Doesn't do any good to have a bunch of high priced stock, and no one buying.

Have seen Rock Islands on auction going for a bit over $400. I want to get back into 1911 and I plan to get one in the next few months.

Tom

Honestly if a manufacturer does not have the ability to produce parts machines correctly so they drop into place, they have some issues. Quality starts in the steel and follows to the machine shop, humans are there for corrective action.

Hand fitting is cool, but people often make more mistakes than the machines do. I'd take an entirely computer produced pistol, over one built by a guy working for an hourly wage.

Makers push the prices as high as the market will bear due to the popularity of the 1911.
To quote The Godfather, "It's not personal, it's business."

But the one thing I can't figure, why do they cost so much?

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because they will have to take it back at least once to see why it doesn't feed.

because they will have to take it back at least once to see why it doesn't feed.

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+1 on the hudges post

Oops, I never answered the question. Its because we are willing to pay for it.
The 1911 is to the gun world what the common cold is to the pharmaceuticals.
Do they have a cure to the common cold? Yes.

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Uh... no, actually, they don't. You are either grossly misinformed, or you are making baseless assumptions. The common cold is (50% of the time) caused by a rhinovirus, which mutates constantly. The CDC changes the flu shot (inluenza is a similar disease) every year, because every year the virus mutates a little, and the previous year's vaccines won't work in it (N.B. this is actually evolution at work -- it just works a hell of a lot faster with microorganisms like viruses). The rhinovirus evolves much the same way. I'm not optimistic that we'll ever find a cure, given this situation, but who knows, researchers at the University of Maryland did map the genome for all known viruses responsible for causing the common cold -- but that was only two years ago, which is far too recently for them to have effective treatments available to the public yet.

Are there superior guns than the 1911? Yes.

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Superior how? And if other guns are demonstrably superior, why do elite units such as LAPD SWAT, Delta Force, FBI HRT, and others, as well as top competitors in IPSC and other competitions overwhelmingly choose the 1911? The mission requirements dictate the equipment, and these top shooters still find the 1911 meets their needs better than any other handgun. It's true that average shooters can most often use other guns as well or better than a 1911, but there is NO "best pistol" period. "Best" is a relevant term in describing any weapon, and any pistol will only ever be "best" in relation to how it fulfills the specific needs of its given users. Same applies to rifles. A .600 nitro express double might be the best rifle if you are going to hunt elephants, but it would not be the best for shooting groundhogs. A bolt action sniper rifle might be the best rifle for shooting an enemy soldier from 600 yards away, but it would not be the best if you have to go into a building looking for that soldier.

The mission profile of different handguns varies less than that of the long guns I listed above, but it would still be a big mistake that all pistols fulfill all mission requirements equally, and that one could ever be the "best" overall.

If you cure the cold pharm-co's lose money. If people would stop spending ridiculous amounts of money on 1911's gun co's, gun smiths and gun rags would hurt.

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Believe it or not, gun writers have minimal influence of what I buy, and I am sure many others can say the same. Nor am I overly inclined to spend money to let a gunsmith monkey with, and possibly screw up a perfectly functional firearm.

Look I like the 1911 as much if not more than most. Heck I own several myself but if it takes 15 to 25 hundred dollars to make this gun a superior fighting handgun then I know of many others that can fit the bill for a whole lot less money.

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For your needs, perhaps. Others have different requirements. And I have seen many a reliable 1911 priced for far, far less than the figures you name. Sure you can spend that much on a 1911. But you don't have to.

While we might not like Glocks, Sigs, S&W's they get the job done as accurately and for less money.

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Again, speak for yourself. I like Glocks just fine. Sigs too. I also like S&W revolvers. On the other hand, I have extensive experience with their autoloaders, and haven't seen one yet that I'd pay money to own.

That's what i'm selling mine for

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To me, on Saturday.

I think when I owned 1911s are enjoyed owning them more than shooting them.

I prefer revolvers and polymer framed semiautomatic pistols.

$700 to $900 is about what a 1911 from Colt and Smith & Wesson costs now. Interesting considering a S&W 686 costs over $100 less.

1911s cost more because creating one is a much more labor intensive process compared to a polymer framed striker fired gun like a glock.

That being said you can find Para GIs and Taurus PT1911s for about $600 or less. That is not a bad deal being both of those are actually semi-custom guns. I've have been eyeing those two, trying to decide for a while.

I agree with LancerMW. I have shot a friend's STI Spartan several times and it is a great deal for the money. I am a 1911 lover and own/have owned some pretty expensive 1911s like Wilson, Les Baer, SA TRP, and STI . I cant really say that one was better than the other, as they are all nice. I cant really see spending $2200 for another custom 1911 because I have purchased $1000 1911s that run just as good if not better. Some like the custom approach, so dont due to cost, But like others will say , what you pay is what you get.
Due to your money issues, I would recomend a SA GI ($500) , SA milspec ($600), Used Colt 1991A1 ($600-700), STI Spartan ($600), or a used SA Loaded model ($600-700). I recomend this because you can have a 1911 without spending a great deal of money. As money comes in, you can purchase the accessories or gunsmithing to make it into what you want. I have a friend that is currently doing the same thing to his SA Milspec. In some cases, this method can cost more than purchasing a pistol that already has all of the accessories/mods that you want, but there are some 1911s now that come NIB with more than what you want ( i.e. ambi-safety, fancy or useless grips, finishes, etc).
I guess it boils down to what YOU want in YOUR 1911. We are all different in what we need out of our guns.

Good Luck .

Billy Shears said:

And if other guns are demonstrably superior, why do elite units such as LAPD SWAT, Delta Force, FBI HRT, and others, as well as top competitors in IPSC and other competitions overwhelmingly choose the 1911? The mission requirements dictate the equipment, and these top shooters still find the 1911 meets their needs better than any other handgun.

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If I'm an LEO who expects to get into a firefight, no way I'm packing a single-stack, unless there's a BBQ that night. I'd have a .40 S&W hi-cap of some sort, minimum. More likely I'd have a Glock or other modern hi-cap.

I like 1911s a lot, have several, but there's a Glock on my nightstand.

I think when I owned 1911s are enjoyed owning them more than shooting them.

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I'm the opposite, I enjoy owning the polymer guns and double stack wonders, but when it comes to actually hitting what I'm shooting at nothing beats the 1911 in my hands.

There are no guns that I shoot worse than Glocks -- only after putting in the 3.5 lb connectors do I actually have any confidence in hitting what I'm aiming at, but with these in, I question their safety for carry.

--wally.

There's 2 1/2 pounds of tool quality steel in a finished 1911. There's 3 times that amount when it starts. It takes a long of time to mill away and polish all that steel, one slide/frame at a time. The milling bits are expensive and wear out, too.

But don't forget all the CUSTOMER SERVICE. When you make a product that is this much of an investment, you will invariably spend tons of money on service. At a lower price point, people have a greater tolerance for minor shortcomings which they can live with or fix themselves. Once you get into the higher end of cost for a particular commodity, esp where custom fitting/tuning are part of the package, people start freaking out and demanding refunds or sending things back, sometimes repeatedly, for small problems.

When you buy a milsurp pistol and something goes wrong, you either fix it yourself, or you pay for someone to fix it for you. There's a huge difference between selling a product as-is compared to paying employees to support a product, sometimes for decades.

I have an Auto Ordnance 1911A1. For that configuration pistol, I couldn't ask for more. I paid something like $550 a year or two ago. All the problems I can think of were operator error. With factory ball ammo it will shoot for a century. If I make my reloads powerful enough to cycle the slide, it will shoot them fine as well. HPs also have no problem. It is not a fancy competition pistol, but I specifically wanted an A1. Another plus is there are few markings on the slide.

back to the topic

I've been thinking about this.
One of my 1911s is a llama Max-1.
This gun sold in 2004 for less than $200.
Yet it's reliable and accurate.
It contains the same parts as any other 1911.
The finish is equivalent to a parked RIA.

Yet they went out of business. As a marketing guy, I think part of the reason is they sold too low, rather than putting another $30 per gun int the cost, then selling it for $200 more. The price-point created a perception of low quality that they never surmounted.

IOW it's likely the manufacturers are holding the price line because to cut the price might drive away buyers who would think that they had cheapened the product somehow.

I bought a new colt combat elite recently, spent a little over $900 with tax. I know I got a great deal on a great gun . Actually I was looking for a new delta and couldn't find ond one, and I'm glad I didn't. As My G20 does everything I need a 10mm to do very well with great resistance to the weather and corrosion.

I never had plannned to buy another 1911 as I already had a colt commander that will out shoot my friend's early target model Kimber any day of the week.