Why 45 ACP Caliber?

Most product development is an evolution of existing process and material rather than a revolution of both. Why reinvent the wheel every time you design a new mode of transportation? For the most part its practicality of which money is a factor.

The military had vast experience with the .45 cal revolvers used prior to the invention of the semi-auto Colt 1911. They knew it worked.

Then they had a bad experience when they switched to .38 revolvers during the Philippine insurrection in 1899.

The Thompson-LaGarde Tests conducted in 1904 made it clear that the military wanted another .45 cal handgun.
The rest is history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson-LaGarde_Tests

While there may have been some desire to use some of the tooling used for making 30-06 ammo, I seriously doubt it was a deciding factor.
I think it just worked out that way.

But for all I know, John Browning may have used cut-off rifle brass when he invented the .45 ACP pistol.

rc

Could it be that the Army people never asked for a 46 caliber handgun?

It's a bad MF.

Also try 45 Super and 460 Rowland.

can't deny the 'whack' the .45acp round has.
I've made sheet metal targets to stob into the ground and shot various handgun rounds at it to gauge the 'dimple' they make. the .45acp factory slugs made a larger and deeper 'dimple' than full house 125gr .357Mag.
not a scientific test but something to think about I suppose.

Beware of cut off 06 cases for 45 ACP

The rifle brass is much thicker as is the base. If you do use them, be sure you start with minimum loads and beware of high pressure (and you will almost certainly have to inside ream the necks to avoid oversize loaded case necks & problems chambering). That said, they will just about eliminate any threat of blown cases in standard throat barrels...

John Browning wanted it that way so he wouldn't have to change shell plates in his Dillon press.

Shame is, Dillon hasn't modernized them since. Hate & discontent sown, I thought I'd add that 45acp is a fantastic revolver caliber, my favorite in fact. You can load it from popgun target levels to 250gr at +1000fps, and moonclips are a very efficient system. Or, there's always 45AR.

rfwobbly has the pithy quote of the month. (nt)

no text

Jim H.

I love the fact that I can use the same shell plates for 45ACP and 30-06 (as previously noted) but for 22-250 as well! (Same base dimensions as the 30-06). You can throw in .308 Winchester as well while you're at it. That's what I call versatility...

Well, my grandfather claimed the best reason for a 45 caliber ball was it let in a lot of air and let out a lot of blood. But then his hunting weapon of choice was the 45-70.

Seriously, the 45 LC was originally a black powder round. The heavy ball made up for the relatively low velocity obtained by the propellant in the shorter side arm barrels. After an officer named Hatcher explained the reason why the military lost so many officers during the Philippine rebellion the .38 issued to officers was replaced by the 45 LC. Remembering the Moro tribesmen, the military decided to continue using the 45 ball in semi auto sidearms.

For a lot of years the .45 cal has been the revolver resolver cartridge. I think it still is. I know about the 500 S&W but the followup shot is a slow one.
+1 to the big hole in lots of blood out.

Old Sam was dead and buried when the .45 Colt came out. Just saying.

One of the nifty elements of the Thompson-LaGarde Tests was they also looked at generic battle damage from small arms on various vehicles as well.

They fired rifles/etc at aircraft structures and identified how best to 'armor' soliders/aircrews/etc

Note that's one of the things that lead to the A2/B10 flight jackets.

After WWII the US Airforce spent years getting rid of the A2 as 'unnecessary'

then after Greneda/Lybia and a few other unpleasant vacation spots they found they were losing incredible numbers of aircrews to injuries from splinter/spalling/flashfires etc that in WWII would not have been an issue. The difference Nylon flight jackets vs Leather. Now they issue leather jackets again, along with body armor (the leather also helps protect against Flash/fire where the nylon melted into your skin), thanks, procurement department. Memo when airplanes get shot at and hit they tend to burn, rather hotly and quickly. That was one of the odder elements of the trip to the .45 ACP

Woerm-

Thanks for that history. I love details like that. Have never heard/read about those elements of the test. Any handy link to more information or was that just a summary from past readings? Either way, thanks for the unique information.

Thompson-LaGarde tests

The Wiki link was really short and didn't cover the vehicle aspects of the testing.

There was a Quartermaster report circa 1919 (published circa 1921) and one part of it was a lengthy digression into weapons performance, most of one whole chapter was on armor/bulletproofing. The 'state of the art' described as generally light and sorry (breastplates for machine gunners) and heavy verging on useless (full suits of armor). None of which would stop pistol bullets much less rifle fire.

the book is Quartermaster Activities in World War I

Extracted From:
America’s Munitions 1917-1918
Report of Benedict Crowell, The Assistant Secretary of War, Director of Munitions
Government Printing Office, Washington - 1919

there are excerpts all over this one covers some but not often on the weapons side

http://www.qmfound.com/americas_munitions.htm

and you can read or download the whole thing

http://www.archive.org/details/americasmunitio00deptgoog

The rest of the Thompson-LaGarde test docs I found online a few years back the parts about airplanes are 'disturbing' from a pilot's standpoint, yup, I'm in a flying gas tank surrounded by high tension ignition sources oh joy now someone is shooting at the thing. The thing that really caught Thompson and LaGarde was the fact that you didn't have to hit the pilot or engine per se just cause enough damage to start a fire, gravity would do the rest. There's not much like a fire to get the undivided attention of a flight crew. No they weren't shooting at occupied aircraft, again it was pigs/goats and vehicles on the ground with the engine running and full gas tanks.

lots of graphs but really short of graphics (I'm sure lots of the pics would have been fireballs belching black smoke).

The army had the 45 Colt. Then they added the 45 Smith & Wesson, aka the "45 Scoefield". This was not an entirely happy situation as neither cartridge worked in the other revolver. The government developed the 45 Government which worked in both revolvers. This cartrdige found its way onto the civilian market where it became known as the 45 Short Colt.

The original specifications for what became the 45 ACP during the development stage called for it to duplicate the ballistics of the 45 Government. All well and good, but for some reason they made the bullet diameter 0.541 or 0.452 instead of the 0.454 that the 45 Colt, S&W, Government had. Go figure.

Following WWII the standard for the 45 Colt bullet was reduced to match the 45 ACP. Part of the reason there is such variability in chamber mouth and barrel diameters in 45 revolvers. Nothing like a little confusion to keep things straight.

Quite so unspellable...



Indeed, the .45 ACP, was a 'Smokelss' semi-rimmed, Copper-Patched, S&W 'Russian'.


The odd, confused and unaccountable compromises and decisions characterizing the entire History and Development of Metallic Cartridges for Handguns, would be comical if it weren't so painful to one's sense of reason and judgment, to behold.


Love them though we may...

45 colt/ acp

you need to remember they did not have the superior inteligence that is present now.think of how dumb they were compared to the new high inteligence now.

Now they issue leather jackets again, along with body armor (the leather also helps protect against Flash/fire where the nylon melted into your skin),

Click to expand...

Except that long before the Air Force got on the leather jacket kick, they were issuing Nomex, not nylon flight suits. Nomex gives the best protection from fire. The leather jackets are used on the ground. They still use Nomex in flight.