Pro-gun ownership but not pro-NRA?

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AHSA is nothing more than a left wing gun grabbers organization. Check out who is involved at the national level, and follow the money. As a life member of NRA I also get e-mails from the Brady Campaign (keep your enemies closer), but I wouldn't sign up to get AHSA e-mails because they are unimportant.

Any time you hear "common sense" or "for the children" or any of the left wing feel good phrases, think of two words.. Creeping Incrementalism. A left wing friend of mine (don't ask) often says "well, we can agree on (fill in the blank)". I always tell him no, we can't, because if you give these people a millimeter they will take 10 miles.
 
Any time you hear "common sense" or "for the children" or any of the left wing feel good phrases, think of two words.. Creeping Incrementalism. A left wing friend of mine (don't ask) often says "well, we can agree on (fill in the blank)". I always tell him no, we can't, because if you give these people a millimeter they will take 10 miles.
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+1

For some reason or the other it has become fashionable for some gun owners to bash the NRA. I've been an NRA member for over 50 years: I can tell you that if it were not for the NRA you could not even own an air gun in the USA.

The AHSA is an anti-gun organization. They refuse to talk about the use of firearms in self defense.

Look at the anti-gun leadership of the AHSA:

http://www.nssf.org/share/pdf/AHSA_Fact_Sheet.pdf
 
Was going through the AHSA website, and this one blog entry doesn't seem anti-gun at all:

Supreme Court Poised to Strike Down Chicago Handgun Ban

By Zakariah Johnson at September 30, 2009 - 3:29pm

Summary:
The Supreme Court announced today it will soon decide whether the Second Amendment prohibits handgun bans by local state and city jurisdictions. The American Hunters and Shooters Association believes in the Constitutional right to bear arms and the inherent human right of self defense. We encourage the Supreme Court to incorporate the Second Amendment as applying to state law, and to strike down bans on individual ownership of firearms, including handguns, wherever such are imposed.

[rest of article in link]
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Maybe they throw in articles like this as a bait-and-switch method to lure people into thinking they're not anti at all.
 
Maybe they throw in articles like this as a bait-and-switch method to lure people into thinking they're not anti at all.
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No doubt, they want it to be as "easy" to buy a handgun in Chicago (and eventually in the rest of the country) as it is in New York City...

They're like Klansman willing to "settle for" Jim Crow, knowing they probably can't get slavery back.
 
For the benefit of Tramp 116, I'll say it again

"However, any American who wants to continue to own firearms for sporting, recreational or defensive reasons and who isn't a member of the NRA, is in my humble opinion, a bloody fool."
 
I hadn't been to the AHSA site for some time--and it has had a complete overhaul, that's for sure. It was easy to find the quote Yosemite Sam cites.

Those who are not familiar with Ray Schoenke's role in politics, or with the history of AHSA, should read the Wikipedia entry on AHSA. That entry--which is not contested or objected to, as some topics are--includes the following information:

"The leaders of the AHSA are:

Ray Schoenke, Founding President. A former football player for the Washington Redskins, Schoenke ran for Governor of Maryland as a Democrat and has given "millions" to Democratic politicians and causes according to a January 19, 1998 Washington Post article. Among the groups that Schoenke has donated to are two that actively lobby to ban firearms: Handgun Control, Inc. and America Coming Together. Schoenke was on the Governor's Commission on Gun Violence in 1996.
Bob Ricker, Executive Director.
John Rosenthal, a real estate mogul and founder of Stop Handgun Violence. Stop Handgun Violence is credited with lobbying and subsequently helping to pass the licensing and registration system in place in the state of Massachusetts. John Rosenthal was a founding member of AHSA, however he has subsequently left the organization.
Joseph J. Vince, Jr., a member of the Board of Directors is the former chief of the BATF's crime guns analysis branch. Currently, he is a principal of Crime Gun Solutions. Crime Gun Solutions has worked for the Brady Center, providing data analysis supportive of the Federal Assault Weapons Act, and has provided ballistics evidence and analysis in lawsuits against firearm dealers. He was a signer on a letter submitted to Congress opposing the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
Jody Powell, co-chairman of the AHSA Advisory Board
A. Austin Dorr, co-chairman of the AHSA Advisory Board"​

(note: citation references for footnotes removed for clarity in this quote.)

​

The wikipedia entry for AHSA includes the following information under a heading "Criticism of AHSA Leadership:"

"Bob Ricker, Executive Director of the AHSA, is a former NRA employee who now supports some groups advocating restrictions on the ownership and use of firearms and has testified as an expert witness against the firearms industry in multiple court cases.
President of AHSA, John E. Rosenthal, is one of the founders of Stop Handgun Violence, a group which has been influential in instituting strong restrictions on the ownership of firearms, in the state of Massachusetts.
Spokesman for the group, Ray Schoenke, has donated over $10,000 to the Brady Campaign, a national organization which advocates strong restrictions on the ownership of firearms."

(again, citation references removed, emphasis added by this poster.)
​

The link to the wiki entry is here.

Keep in mind that periodically, we get forum members here who show up just as the new political campaign season begins (and now never really ends) seeking to influence the topics du jour. It appears that "gun control" per se will NOT be an issue for the 2010 elections if the Democrat party can help it--it will be worked at on the fringes, such as these posts by Owlnmole and tramp116.

RKBA enthusiasts, who are the vast majority of members at this site, would do well to heed mongo the mutterer's advice.

Jim H.
 
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I see the NRA even helped put a stop to the regulation of assist opening knifes. Just another reason to join their forces and support them.

"However, any American who wants to continue to own firearms for sporting, recreational or defensive reasons and who isn't a member of the NRA, is in my humble opinion, a bloody fool."
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Very well said!!!!!!!
 
You may not like some of the things they do, but the hard truth is without them we would be without our 2nd amendment. I say good for the NRA, do what it takes to win, our constitution is too important.
 
Was going through the AHSA website, and this one blog entry doesn't seem anti-gun at all:
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No, does the fact that it's president has contributed large sums of money to HCI sound good?

It's not what people say, it's what they DO.


By the way, AHSA's website is a little behind. They list Jody Powell. He died in September of '09. He was a former Carter administration official.
Powell brought several ex ATF agents into AHSA.

Of course, even if every other board member of AHSA was squeaky clean, there's still Schoenke. You just can't get to a place where you believe that guy is actually pro gun unless you are delusional.
 
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I once held beliefs similar to the OP. Not too long ago even. Only just a few short years ago. Now I'm a card carrying member of the NRA and VERY PROUD OF IT!

As time goes on, the truth becomes apparent.

Groups like the AHSA are the reason I no longer vote Democrat. If you have to lie to get people to agree with your position, then there is something quite clearly wrong. The NRA is genuine about what they represent, and who they support. That makes some people upset, but it makes me feel just fine. I like the groups I associate with to be honest.

I just became a member of the NRA 6 months ago, and I am considering buying a life time membership.

Hang in there OP. You'll come around eventually, to realize that you either have to have all your chips on the table for the 2nd amendment, or all off the table. Groups like the AHSA act like they're "reasonable", but at the end of the day, won't do squat if someone tries to kill the 2nd amendment. The NRA is for real, and has invested time to preserve our rights to own guns, whether they be for hunting, targeting, collecting, or self defense.
 
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Hey, I am pro NRA because they are more vigilant than anyone else on 2nd Amendment rights. I don't just want to OWN. I want to bear and shoot, too. I'm not interested in being allowed to have all my firearms basically turned into curios and relics. The "I'm not going to take your guns away" doesn't reassure me at all.

Listen carefully to those who claim to be "pro ownership" and "pro hunting". They still want overwhelming restrictions on purchases of firearms, ammo, reloading supplies, and other useful accessories. Look at DC's response to the Heller decision last year. they just created more hoops to jump through.
 
I just wish the NRA would stop sending me a ton of junk mail.
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Ask them to stop.

The link to do that is posted in this thread several times.

All you have to do is email or call them and they will stop pretty much everything that isn't membership related.
 
TexasRifleman said:
No, does the fact that it's president has contributed large sums of money to HCI sound good?

It's not what people say, it's what they DO.
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Oh believe me I'm not fooled by their deception. I agree that their actions contradict their words. It's a nasty sneaky game they play. Just pointing out that they're getting even more aggressive to trick the layperson into thinking they're pro-gun by putting out little 100% pro-gun sound bites just to sneak in under the radar. :barf:
 
Oh believe me I'm not fooled by their deception. I agree that their actions contradict their words. It's a nasty sneaky game they play. Just pointing out that they're getting even more aggressive to trick the layperson into thinking they're pro-gun by putting out little 100% pro-gun sound bites just to sneak in under the radar.
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Fortunately, so far they've been about as successful as Stevie Wonder in a game of Pictionary. They wouldn't exist AT ALL were it not for non-membership driven funding. It's still important to confront them wherever they show up and to show them and their shills up for the liars and charlatans they are.
 
My question is, how are you pro-gun but refuse to support a group millions of gun owners support to insure your gun rights? Owning a gun and supporting second amendment rights privately in your home without helping bear the burden of the fight against the anti-gun groups is just a cop-out.

It's like saying I love having the military to defend our country, but I don't want to contribute to funding it.
 
Haven't read the posts, but I'm not keen on the NRA simply because of how they seem to view "full" auto as 'bad or grey' and semi-auto as 'good'.
 
Well without the NRA the view of Full Auto or Semi Auto would mean nothing would it?

We'd all be using Mcdonalds straws for pea shooters instead of the freedom we still possess.
 
Without the NRA we wouldn't have lost the ability to register new 'full' autos when we did. ;)

Have they done more good than harm? I sure would hope so. :) But I personally thing the best pro-gun influence possible is OCing. That black dude OCing an AR15 and side arm in AZ was the best example I can think of in recent times. I don't follow the news very much, but it seemed the media reporting settled down to a "yes, another OCer, and yes, no bloodbath in the streets" type report, though, true, still questing the safety of the president et al.
 
Without the NRA we wouldn't have lost the ability to register new 'full' autos when we did.
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Does the winky smiley mean that comment is intended to be sarcastic?

Or are you really proposing that the NRA (the ultra conservative Neal Knox "crowd" as one of our contributers so elequently tagged them) thought up the Hughs Amendment to the FOPA back in '86, and somehow convinced an otherwise benign Democrat Representative from New Jersey to insert it into the bill for them?

Surely they were desperate to find some way to water down the victory gained by the other language of the bill -- such as providing the much needed "safe passage" legislation or reigning in the abusive and completely unethical enforcement practices the ATF had used to bully gun dealers for decades?

So the NRA couldn't stand their own success and decided to drop a poison pill into the mix to keep us all from getting a swell head? Yeah, that must be it.

How about, "Without the NRA we would have had no voice at all and would have faced extinction of our rights back in the 60's, again in the '80s, all through the '90s, and would not now be in a better position today than ever since 1968, and arguably even before that?"

But, nooooo....without the NRA, we wouldn't have lost our rights.

Good grief.

-Sam
 
The NRA did a great job by helping get the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act enacted. The Act stopped endless lawsuits which were simply designed to bankrupt firearm manufacturers. Firearm manufacturers shouldn't be liable due to the illegal use of a firearm by criminals, just like automobile manufacturers shouldn't be liable when a drunk crashes a car. The NRA helped convince Congress that the legislation was needed. And the NRA is working hard to prevent Federal and State/local gun control laws. You can donate to the NRA/ILA (the lobbying arm of the NRA) by clicking here.
 
Or are you really proposing that the NRA (the ultra conservative Neal Knox "crowd" as one of our contributers so elequently tagged them) thought up the Hughs Amendment to the FOPA back in '86, and somehow convinced an otherwise benign Democrat Representative from New Jersey to insert it into the bill for them?
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Well, the NRA did make a mistake here, there's no question.

They told Reagan to go ahead and sign FOPA and they would address Hughes at a later date.

That never happened.

No one is perfect, but when people tell the story they love to spin it such that NRA was "pro Hughes" which of course is nonsense.

But, I am still waiting for anyone to try to address Hughes and it's such a hot button it's untouchable for the forseeable future.

The alternative, asking Reagan to veto the whole of FOPA, probably would have put us in a worse place than we are now, so it was a bad deal all the way around.
 
Hardshell, you are exactly right. But that's the difference between voting against someone vs. voting for someone. In my case, I will not use the NRA to vote againt the anti's. I'm voting for who I want. Unlike out 2 party political system, we can vote with $'s to more than 1 organization, and if/when the NRA alienates enough people, then the other organization(s) become more politically powerful, assuming that's their goal.
 
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