A bs claim on 7.62x39 ballistics

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woof

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You won't believe this. On a non-gun related forum, some nimrod has posted that his AK (with its Bulgarian 7.62x39 ammo) kicks up dirt at 600-700 yards within a foot of where his 7mm Mag kicks it up. The only way an x 39 will shoot 600 yards is if you run 400 then shoot :).

So I'm looking for a perfect chart or table that will clarify that in a glance. I can't even find x30 trajectory data for that range. How would you post in response to this guy?
 
OH believe you me 7.62x39 will make it to 600 yds just fine!

Anyway 122grn wolf HP compared to 140grn Rem core-lokt based on a 300yd zero as calculated by the iphone "Ballistic" app

for a diffrence in POI at 600yds of........you ready........it's about..............7 feet
 

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An AK's sights are graduated to 1000 meters. On the 600 meter setting, it will shoot to point of aim at 600 meters, yes.

Now, actually seeing and hitting a small target at 600 would be very, very difficult (a typical AK would be shooting 2 or 3 foot groups at minimum at that distance even from a rest, and you'd have to know the range almost exactly because of x39's faster drop), but hitting a large target at 600 is not a problem; the cartridge will do it. A Wolf 122gr JHP (BC 0.260) will arrive at 600 yards traveling about 930 ft/sec.
 
Will the 7.62 X 39 shoot 700 yards? Sure. Will it do it on the same trajectory as the 7MM Mag? LOL........ :rolleyes:
 
just for fun I ran my 2460fps 125grn Nosler ballistic tip 7.62x39mm handload through the calculator with the same parameters I used above

it's POI at 600 should be -97.8" or 3.8 feet below cheap 7mm mag Rem ammo
 
The chart I looked at had it dropping about 100 inches at 500 yards with most of that coming between 400 and 500. That's eight feet so at the claimed 600-700 I would say you would have to be standing on a 20 ft platform to shoot level and get the bullet to range. Let's also remember the claim is with surplus mil ammo not some hot handload.
 
The chart I looked at had it dropping about 100 inches at 500 yards with most of that coming between 400 and 500. That's eight feet so at the claimed 600-700 I would say you would have to be standing on a 20 ft platform to shoot level and get the bullet to range. Let's also remember the claim is with surplus mil ammo not some hot handload.
Surplus mil ammo is plenty hot, for 7.62x39 anyway, and tends to run pretty close to nominal velocity.

The guy didn't specify what sight setting he was using; set on 600, the rear sight blade is elevated less than half an inch. Even with the slider all the way back (the generic "P" setting, 300 meters/328 yards), you're looking at maybe 25 MOA of holdover, which is probably less than the depth of the rear sight notch on most guns. Again, hitting a B21-sized target at that range with typical AK sights and ammo would be a challenge, but getting the bullet there isn't a problem at all.
 
Just out of curiousity, I ran a maximum-distance calculation for a 122-grain 7.62x39mm bullet at 2350 ft/sec with a ballistic coefficient of 0.260 (e.g., typical Wolf JHP out of a 16" barrel). Given an initial elevation of 30 degrees, the bullet comes down just over 3,250 yards away (1.8 miles) after 24 seconds of flight.

Code:
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmdist-5.0.cgi

Maximum Distance
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 	0.260 G1 	Bullet Weight: 	122.0 gr
Muzzle Velocity:	2350.0 ft/s		
Temperature:	59.0 °F	Pressure:	29.92 in Hg
Humidity:	0.0 lb/ft³	Altitude:	0.0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude:	No	Pressure is Corrected:	Yes
Output Data
Atmospheric Density:	0.07647 lb/ft³	Speed of Sound:	1116.5 ft/s
Initial Angle:	30.0 deg	Terminal Angle:	62.3 deg
Terminal Range:	3253.3 yd	Terminal Velocity:	349.7 ft/s
Terminal Time:	24.0 s	Terminal Energy:	33.1 ft•lbs
27/11/09 18:50, JBM/jbmdist-5.0.cgi
 
+1 what everyone else has already said. If the guy is claiming 7.62x39 has pretty much the same trajectory as 7mm Mag, he's crazy, but 7.62x39 will easily get out that far with enough accuracy (through your typical 4MOA-ish AK) for an area target (or a decent sized point target if it's stationary and you're able to fire a string of four or five rounds).
 
What he was claiming was that the x39 is an awesomely powerful round, equal to the 7mm mag.
There are plenty of ballistics charts out there to disprove that claim.;)
I'm a big fan of the 7.62x39 and the AK platform. But I also understand it's limitations.:D
 
What he was claiming was that the x39 is an awesomely powerful round, equal to the 7mm mag.
Oh, that's BS, most definitely. x39 is pretty much a twin of .30-30 Winchester, and (excluding .30 carbine) is pretty much the least powerful .30 caliber rifle round in common use.
 
No BS

I say that this guy's claim is NOT BS!
In summer 2011 - mid afternoon - 98° - no wind - cold rifle
One dead center shot on 12" target @ 711 yards w/60ft elevation
Russian SKS w/Tapco Stock and 20round clip - using detachable bi-pod
6 witnesses

If in doubt, send me a personal email and I will give you
my phone number.
 
The thought of him saying it has a trajectory within 4' of a seven mag makes me smile. It means I'm not the most ignorant person on here after all. LOL!! The 7.62x39 was made so little people could carry lots of ammo and rain it down at distance. Sure the thing will shoot up to 1000 yards, but with what accuracy? Maybe good enough to scare off ur other terrorist buddy in his Yugo but anything more than that? No. The most accurate 39 I ever saw was an sks and it only shot about 3moa.
 
The round itself is capable of high accuracy. A Saiga 7.62x39 with a 16" barrel can typically hit 1.25-2 MOA. There's also been a few bolt guns that shoot the round (Ruger even offered their M77 series in 7.62x39 at one point). If the gun can do it, the round can do it. The only question is how he set his scope, and whether his AK is capable of that kind of accuracy. There ARE AK's that can pull that off, but they're expensive, typically in the $700 to $900 range.
 
You won't believe this. On a non-gun related forum, some nimrod has posted that his AK (with its Bulgarian 7.62x39 ammo) kicks up dirt at 600-700 yards within a foot of where his 7mm Mag kicks it up. The only way an x 39 will shoot 600 yards is if you run 400 then shoot :).

So I'm looking for a perfect chart or table that will clarify that in a glance. I can't even find x30 trajectory data for that range. How would you post in response to this guy?

According to the JBM Maximum Distance calculator, a 130 grain spitzer at 2350 fps will go 3500 yards, so what you say he posted is perfectly possible. Just because he can get a 7.62x39 to shoot 600 yards doesn't mean that it shoots anywhere nearly as flat as a 7mm mag; it just means the bullet will go 600 yards. Which it will, if you hold the muzzle high enough when you fire it. It will describe a much more curved trajectory than a 7mm mag on the way, but it will still go 600 yards easily.

I hear a bunch of unfounded assumptions in your post - that a 7.62x39 can't go 600 yards, that both guns are held dead level, that the sights are the same, etc, etc, but there's nothing to indicate that the assumptions are actually true.
 
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I agree with most of the other posters here. The claim wasn't one of both cartridges shooting the same trajectory, it's a claim that he can hit the same spot 600 yards out with two different cartridges. The 7.62x39 will travel that far if you compensate for bullet drop. It won't shoot nearly as flat as te 7mm mag, but with proper compensation each round (or gun in this case) should be able to hit the same target.
 
Another BS claim is that x39 is a "twin" of the .30-30. Yes, in the big picture, it's easy to say they are similar when making a conversational point. In reality, the overall length means you can get the AR chambered in x39, but not .30-30, aside from the rim issues. That's because the case capacity allows max loads 5gr higher, which is far beyond the x39.

ZEROED to the same distance, ALL projectiles will hit the bullseye. The MOA dispersion will affect it, but given the same accuracy, one group will superimpose the other. What long range precision shooters do know is that the increased height of the more rainbow trajectory means taking that into account. Signs, tree limbs, outcrops, whatever that intervene at the top of the flight path come into play. Hitting an elevated highway sign dead center halfway to the target happens. Snipers have to project the holdover for clearance all the way to the target.

It's the whole point of minimizing bullet weight - we try to get the flattest trajectory with enough foot pounds of force out to the limit of the estimated engagement ranges for that kind of shooting. And if it's less than 500m, you can optimize for the bigger bullet, to a point, and accept a bit more drop. It's very much tradeoffs and balances.

ps, I underlined that for a reason, and those that take exception aren't wrong. Your explanation of why should move this conversation in the right direction.
 
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