Magnets better than springs?

Nice idea, but I think it's over-engineering the problem. On the brightside, it'll probably have no break-in period.

Too many other important things are susceptible to magnetism.

NiFeB magnets are fragile, and may be more susceptible to damage by mishandling than a spring.

Also, it looked like the guide rod thing stuck out the bottom, not the best thing, would make it painful to slam in if you weren't careful.

NiFeB magnets are fragile, and may be more susceptible to damage by mishandling than a spring.

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Yep. They like to shatter when dropped. But we don't do that to magazines now do we?

Justin

I am the inventor of this idea, and would like to explain its advantages.
I spent three years in the Army, and as you will read, all of the questions asked concerning combat zones/military use and practicality were addressed in multiple tests over and over again.
With that said, most of the problems that one could possibly find with this idea are solved by rational thinking, e.g. magnets will affect a lensatic compass like the one I used in the military (only in close proximity) BUT so will the steel barrel of the M-4/16 its inserted into, so the rifle will STILL need to be slung across the back to get an accurate azimuth reading whether magnets are used or not. Another example is temperature, magnets can began to lose some strength after being heated beyond their curie point (which is around 180 F) but since a person cannot survive at 180 F, this is not a real world limitation. People also think that with magnets you can't get the same capacity for the same space, yes they can and initial tests of my Hi-cap drum are very encouraging. That aside, I've had people GIVE me magazines to re-engineer with magnets simply because the spring had warped and held the follower at odd angles and wouldn't even load the first round of the mag, so the capacity of your spring magazine is irrelevant if you cant get them to feed correctly, if I gave you a 20 round magazine powered by magnets, you'll be able to fire 20 rounds every time, reliability is what I'm looking for not necessarily capacity. Another concern, don't magnets lose their magnetism if dropped? These magnetic magazines have been dropped in the dirt and mud, exposed to sand/dust, banged around, thrown into range boxes, and the magnets have been removed and have smacked into each other several times under their own attraction forces. Neodymium magnets do not lose their magnetism by simple drops and taps, and this design is not "made out of glass" it would take a serious fall from 20 feet or higher onto concrete to damage this magazine, but of course dropping a loaded spring mag from this height would damage it as well.
Cost and weight are also not significant issues, the prototype cost 15 bucks to make (paying retail) that seems pretty reasonable to me for what it can do, it also weighs a mere ounce more than its spring counterpart which is also acceptable for reliability. In the pictures for the patent the original plans call for a telescoping pole that compresses into itself to allow the follower to descend during loading, but to allow viewers to see inside the magazine for the video, this was removed along with the floor plate. The final design has no pole extending beyond the bottom of the magazine. The bullets used in the test video are Russian Silver Bear (Steel Cased) ammo which is magnetic and it the magazine still functioned flawlessly.

(Metal) Springs by nature are structured to return to their original state when compressed, and can do this many times, however this is not all that we are asking of our magazine springs. We are asking it to return to its original state while pushing a load that is being pulled down by gravity, and we are expecting that there is enough tension to accelerate this mass and deliver the top cartridge to the magazines lips in the mere fractions of a second that the bolt/slide is to the rear. It is not simply a matter of force and distance. The mag functions independently, and is therefore not timed to the weapon and must supply enough force have the next cartridge ready for feeding when the bolt begins its forward travel, so in reality it is a Force, Distance, and TIME equation. Just because your mag spring can push all of your cartridges up when unloading by hand or manually manipulating the slide or bolt, does not mean that it is capable of pushing the same load up in the time frame that the bolt is to the rear when firing live rounds........ this results in the bolt beginning to travel forward and attempting to strip a cartridge from the top of the mag and jamming the bullet tip into the front wall of the magazine, or it'll simply travel over the cartridge as there is no exposed rim for the bolt to "grab" on to, and instead of bang, you get click. The number of cycles and prolonged storage (while loaded) do add creep and aggravate the likelihood of this occurring.
People have come to rely on magazine springs, and they have been around for a long time, BUT so have the problems associated with them, that's why we have Tap, Rack, Bang, and S.P.O.R.T.S.
I'm not saying that springs fail every time, but the chance increases with cycles and compression, that is a fact.
So the big question remains, when will yours fail you?

Now there is another option, magnets don't "wear out" with use, whether loaded or not, and can consistently deliver the required forces in the proper time window necessary for reliable feeding and it can do it today, tomorrow, or 40 years from now.
Magnets offer more reliability, and for something that most people trust their life to, reliability is paramount. I've read stories where people were so paranoid about their semi-autos ability to function reliably, that they went out and bought a revolver just to put their mind at ease.
This is a viable solution to a serious problem, it is very practical, cost efficient, lightweight, and extremely reliable.

The prototype developed to prove this design was a 10 round 5.56 magazine with an aluminum housing, follower and floor plate, and used ring neodymium magnets that had a diameter of 3/4 of an inch across, 1/4 tall, with hole in the middle being 1/8 wide that slid vertically on an aluminum pole. The test weapon was a DPMS AR-15 variant. The prototype magazine functioned with the exact same performance of a spring magazine in all aspects, including single shot and rapid fire as well as manipulation of the catch after the last round had been fired.
The original idea was to create a magazine that would function like a spring, but allow you to keep the magazine loaded indefinitely without a loss of pressure, as an added benefit, removing the spring also eliminates metal fatigue so that there are no cycle limitations and you end up with a magazine that could very well last forever.
Tests with the magnets up against cell phones, GPS units, Motorola Icom radios, laptops, and other electronic objects have shown no harmful effects or interruption to the electronic equipment (most of these devices already contain magnets and need them to function), and even placing other magnets and steel around the outside of the magazine while firing did not interrupt feeding. The polarity of the magnets face each other in vertical alignment, and that is where almost all of the magnetic field influence is concentrated, so the magazine does NOT attract metal or ferrous objects from feet or even inches away, metal objects must be placed DIRECTLY up against the magazine to have any effect on the object at all, and even then it is not a great force. When the mags were carried in an LBV, or MOLLE pouch side by side the magazines were easy to pull out and required no more force than for a standard mag.
The 10 round Prototype, is only a mere demonstrator to prove the viability of this idea. Hi-capacity Drums can also be achieved. The benefits of a magnetic drum are immense as now you can load up 60 to 100 rounds in the drum, insert it into the weapon and it can be left to sit for years, or carried on a combat patrol day after day without harming the drum, then when needed can be fired with out any winding or twisting of a metal spring coil.
Even if you don't have a need to keep your magazine permanently loaded, the fact that there is no spring (therefore nothing to weaken) means that even with normal range use its more reliable than standard spring variants and will outlast even the most expensive spring magazines.
The anecdotal story of a Colt 45 left loaded from WW2 does not produce satisfying evidence, nor does it replace science, this is not a gunsmith or even an experience question, its a metallurgy one.
I was in the military, and I have seen springs fail when it matters most. And I am determined to find the most reliable means of feeding cartridges, so that when a Police Officer, a Soldier, or You pull a firearm to protect.... It will fire without excuse.
I trust this invention with my life and I have a magnetic magazine in my rifle by my bed, and I don't have to wonder how long its been loaded, or how many rounds it has in it, or even how many cycles its endured, I know it will work...

We all do things to prepare for the unforeseeable future, like hiding a spare key under a door mat, carrying a band-aid in your wallet, or having a AAA membership, your weapon is your final line of defense, its should be something you can rely on with confidence, not worry about.
This idea removes some of the "what ifs" in life.
For all of us that rely on firearms for our personal, and our families protection, lets us hope we catch those "problem mags" at the range, and not in their living rooms in the middle of the night.

Welcome to THR Magnetic Magazine.

You have some impeccable timing!

Justin

I thought the problem that weakened springs is repeated compression and recompression.

What if...

...you use steel-cased ammo
...you bend the rod sticking out the bottom

...how do you carry several in ammo pouches with that rod sticking out???

What if...
...you use steel-cased ammo
...you bend the rod sticking out the bottom

...how do you carry several in ammo pouches with that rod sticking out???

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I can answer that, having actually read Magnetic Magazine's post. The fixed rod and removal of the floor plate was done just for the video, to allow viewers to see the inside of the magazine. And steel cased ammo was also not an issue.

The final design has no pole extending beyond the bottom of the magazine. The bullets used in the test video are Russian Silver Bear (Steel Cased) ammo which is magnetic and it the magazine still functioned flawlessly.

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Pretty good idea.

Magnetic Magazines - Interesting concept, I wish you well on your patent and thank you for your service!

How do they deal with magnetic sand particles? I know if I run a decent magnet thru the local beach sand, it'll come out absolutely coated with magnetite particles.... And they're a PITA to remove from a strong magnet....

Has that potential issue been dealt with?

J

Thanks, JimmyN...

...I just watched the videos and got my questions there...:banghead:

Magnets are more fragile than good mag springs... This is a solution to a problem that didn't need solving....

MAG SPRINGS DO NOT FATIGUE UNDER A CONSTANT LOAD.

Someone asked about sand, the magnets are coated with Epoxy + Nickel + Copper + Nickel 4-layer coating, and sand (magnetic or not) wont hurt them, or interfere with operation.

With physics being brought up, everyone should remember Newtons 2nd law. Newtons 2nd Law states If an object of mass (bullets) is acted upon by an outside force (spring) of magnitude, then the magnitude of acceleration can be found in this formula F=ma.
I'm saying that over a period of time small amounts of creep, along with cyclic use, degrade a springs ability to push the rounds up in the window of time that the bolt is to the rear, that can cause problems for someone in danger.
As a spring is fatigued by cyclic use it weakens the steel and it loses its ability to withstand creep.
You're magazine can work fine for a while with care and maintenance, but eventually will not be able to accelerate the rounds up quickly enough in time for feeding the next round. This idea is about reliability, and it works extremely well.

The following is straight from MWG regarding their 90 rounder:
Leaving the 90 Rounder stored with more than 80 rounds loaded may damage the springs and cause the weapon to malfunction.

So there it is, a manufacturer saying that in the application of firearms, a spring "designed" for use in magazine can be damaged if left loaded.

When I load a magazine and I put it in my weapon, I want it to work period.

I had been wondering lately about replacing springs with magnets in guns. I guess you could only use magnets if the surrounding material was not ferrous.

Posted by Magnetic Magazine:
Newtons 2nd Law states If an object of mass (bullets) is acted upon by an outside force (spring) of magnitude, then the magnitude of acceleration can be found in this formula F=ma.
I'm saying that over a period of time small amounts of creep, along with cyclic use, degrade a springs ability to push the rounds up in the window of time that the bolt is to the rear, that can cause problems for someone in danger.

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Newton's law has nothing to do with dynamic fatigue of springs...

And one manufacturer admitting that their springs are not designed properly, also does not change the engineering behind spring properties...


It is an interesting application and I wish you luck, but you will not win the business of educated firearms owners by relaying myths and trying to justify them with false reasoning.

In your opinion.

I have seen more than one manufacturer fail at this task which many think is so simple (making a good spring).

I think these magnets have merit.

And the price for these magnets? Anyone want to take a guess how much mpre than a spring they are???

Justin

With physics being brought up, everyone should remember Newtons 2nd law. Newtons 2nd Law states If an object of mass (bullets) is acted upon by an outside force (spring) of magnitude, then the magnitude of acceleration can be found in this formula F=ma.
I'm saying that over a period of time small amounts of creep, along with cyclic use, degrade a springs ability to push the rounds up in the window of time that the bolt is to the rear, that can cause problems for someone in danger.

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Yeah... before you try to use science to back up a tenuous argument, you should make sure you actually understand the science in question. As mentioned above, none of Newton's laws have anything to do with the properties of springs. You severely undercut your own credibility when you use obvious pseudoscience to support your claims.

Another example is temperature, magnets can began to lose some strength after being heated beyond their curie point (which is around 180 F)

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Anybody know what's the average temperature in a closed vehicle in a Middle Eastern desert on a sunny day. I wonder if it could exceed 180 degrees, since temps in a closed car here in GA have been measured at 140 on a hot summer day.