PSL Romak 3

Thanks NC-Mike, I took a closer look at my rifle and it has model Romack 3 Romania stamped on the side of the receiver as well as lAl l Knox TN. I don't know what the lAl l stands though. I like that short version of the AK 3 on the post. Is that the paratrooper? How does it shoot? Hey can you tell me how to post pictures and links theres a good link to go to that has all the different 7.62x54R ammo and how to identify if it is light ball or heavy and which country makes it.

I have one of those w/ 8x scope, it is a lot of fun to shoot.
The only problem was is it dosen't like the soft point stuff.

Hey guys i came across this a while back. May be old news to some but it's a Finnish sniper's account of the PSL. Found here @ Dragunov.net ....http://www.dragunov.net/finn.html

On the ROMAK-3:
I also own privately a Romanian military PSL made in 1994 and I wanted to bring out some opinions of my own into that seemingly never ending debate about SVD vs. PSL. Regarding accuracy: even though you can find the ROMAK-3 for about a fraction of the price of the genuine Russian SVD, you should buy it. Mine has a Russian military PSO-1 on it and 1PN58 with IR illuminator for night use. I have modified the grip a little and did a trigger job (easy because our service weapons are Sako and Kalashnikov assault rifles which have the same kind of action and trigger assembly).

Now both of these weapons are equally accurate!!! About 3/4 MOA groups constantly. PERIOD.

The world of difference is the ammo. Believe me we have tried it all, everything available. And what we use is the Lapua 7,62 x 53R with 148gr D- 47 bullet, which is the thicker version of the D-46 (also 148gr). It is boat-tail MATCH ammo for the old Mosin-Nagant and Finnish equivalents from the WWII- era.

I don't want you to think I'm biased because the ammo is Finnish too, its simply the most accurate for these weapons. A second choice is the Swedish Norma. The Russian silvertips to my knowledge (and our special forces sniper school's) were never intended to be accurate ammo for SVD and neither is it a match grade ammo for any 7,62 x 54R. Russians simply don't make match ammo for that caliber. It is just better quality normal ammo. (More consistent manufacturing tolerances, better powder and so on). It is somewhat accurate in SVD but not great. Russians have adopted those silvertips for their use because manufacturing match-grade ammo for the SVD would only give marginal results. Big country, big tolerances, you know. The tip is painted silver to recognize it from the other same caliber rounds, especially from WWII- era mass- production ammo.

When asked to clarify what "Silver tips" are:
I've been doing some research on your question about Russian Silvertips / 7N14. The following is not the "ultimate" truth about this yet, but to my understanding Russian silvertips are those civilian soft cast metal bullets with a little milder powder charge as I mentioned before. Those 7N14's you mentioned are probably new "Snaiperskaya" cartridges made especially for SVD, but there is no such 7N14 marking in the cartridge case, so I'm still working on this.

Anyway that new snaiperskaya is still not yet even boat-tail ammo, so the accuracy is more consistent, but generally over 1 MOA. The "thing" in those cartridges is the powder and charge, which in Russia is said to be "the most suitable used for the SVD", which is probably right, because it�s ballistics are somewhat identical to Lapua and Norma, and it stabilizes the bullet properly. The lack in accuracy depends still on bullet construction. By the way Sako and Lapua have also manufactured 7,62 x 53R ammo in boxer cases for competition purposes and I happen to have about 100 of them. They are accurate!

The reason why it is hard to obtain Match-grade ammo for the caliber is mainly bullet construction. The bullet is a bit thicker than average boat-tail match .308, which makes it a lower volume manufacturing product for any bigger ammunition factory. If you mean to reload your ammo, you can easily obtain powder and bullets, but Berdan primers are hard to get items. If you can get Berdan primers for the cartridge, you first have to invent a method of getting those used primers off from the two- priming hole case without harming it. We have most commonly used water pressure. You can use boxer primers in Berdan cases but it leads to primer pressure leaks and primer off-center problems which causes uneven burning and leads to fatal loss of accuracy ( "flys" [a.k.a. flyers], which means one single bullet tens of centimeters off target). Also the boxer primer sits a little bit too deep into berdan primer hole, which can cause a dud or an uneven pressure curve in powder burning. In Finland if a person can get his hands onto boxer primed cases you can definetly consider yourself as a lottery winner!

I also have an M39 in mint shooting condition. I use Lapua match ammo with D-46 bullet and that rifle is truly accurate and pleasant to shoot. I also own a Suomi submachine-pistol with 14 new barrels and shim-sets.

I was asked to add:
Everything I have stated is of my own responsibility and my own opinion and experience, not Finnish Army's or Government's official claim.

And that is officially an experts opinion.

Dunlop's claim to 5-6 inches at 800 yards is totally ridiculous. Don't believe that garbage. As has been posted here before, you should be extremely pleased with yourself if you’ve shot 1.5MOA. I'm a Dragunov Tigr owner (full svd length, not carbine) and with the rough and ready Barnaul I'll pull off MOA now and then. The only mil surp available hear , Hungarian heavy ball, wouldn't have a hope of grouping at 1 MOA. The lighter stuff the rifle was really designed for would be better but that’s unavailable here. Also Dunlop's assertion that the psl was reverse engineered from the dragunov is false - as already pointed out. The Chinese ndm-86 was said to be reverse engineered while the psl was an adapted AK design.

I made a set of vids a while back, here's the shooting one with groups at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btGRU4TqXJM

revive

I got a PSL a couple-three weeks back. I shot 60 rounds of Romanian steel-core light ball through it last week-end. It's a simple gun to shoot well and more than accurate enough for the military purpose for which it was produced.
The PSL is insanely fun and full-retard easy to shoot. When I had mine at the range, there were two guys there busily turning money into a noise with an AK underfolder. They weren't able to hit some balloons they'd tacked up at 50 yards, even once during the expenditure of some 80 rounds.. The problem, of course, was them not the gun.
I invited them to sit down at my bench and try the PSL. I very briefly explained how to shoot from a bench, what the reticle was all about and how to use it, and how to squeeze a trigger. I loaded them 5 rounds each. Both of them were able to hit a torso-sized target 5 for 5 at 250 yards.
You never saw two guys with bigger smiles. Hitting stuff is way more fun than missing stuff and the PSL makes hitting stuff easy.
Is it a sooper-dooper gnat-castrating sniper gun? No.
Is it a really user-friendly squad marksman rifle? Yes.

I hear ya Joe.
I have had mine for a few years, and I love to shoot it.
I like the rounds to.
Not to expensive, alot of bang for the buck.

Hi guys, I was googling "PSL handloads" and I see where Elmer Fudd was quoting me on some of my experiences with the PSL, I cant believe I havent registered at THR before so I just did.
I`ve been reading the thread and just wanted to throw some of my experience into the fire.
I have a TN guns PSL, the import version, not the kit built. It is probably the most enjoyable rifle I have ever owned.I have shot it with 7N1 sniper ammo, and just about every available type of light ball surplus and I have done a bit of experimenting with handloads (soon to be using .311" 175gr. sierra matchkings)- I know we are only supposed to use 148/155 gr bullets with the PSL but there is a modification we can make that will allow the rifle to safely shoot heavy ball without damage to the rifle (more about that later)
The best accuracy I have acheived from my rifle was something in the neighborhood of 1.5moa. Attached are pictures from several range trips and the targets, The most accurate load yet has been the 7N1 but my handloads are getting close, I need to get a .311" expander for my resizing die, the hornady dies use a .308" expander and the bullets are not seating exactly concentric with the bore axis, once I get the .311" expander I am going to show what this rifle will do!
First, lets meet the family: Papa Mama and baby bear.

My humble Romanian collection, I have other AK`s but I like having this trio.

My ugly mug and my beautiful PSL, the three shots in the circle at the top left of the target were fired at 200 yards group was about 2", I was shooting at the miniature image of the sillouette, yes my windage was off, I corrected it later that day. The main target was my first attempt at shooting my homebuilt romy G rifle at 200 yards, not as nice as the PSL but not too shabby for an AKM.

10 shots of 7N1 at 200 yds, this group is about 3".

a quick comparison of different ammo types, shot at 100 yds.

czech silvertip at 100 yds, definately MOA or better.


My handloads at 100 yds. starting at the starting load and working half grain increments upwards, target number 6 was 51 grains Alliant reloader 15 in winchester brass, cci military primers, hornady .312" 150gr. softpoints which seemed to do the best and was just under max book load and showed no signs of excessive pressure. Not bad for a standard hunting bullet.

These tests were done with the stock trigger, I have since installed a red star arms adjustable and it is WORLDS better! I cant wait to get back to the range and do some more testing.

5 shots of 7N1 at 200 yards, 4 rounds into 1.25" with a flyer (which I called, darned gritty stock trigger....grrr) if we eliminate the flyer thats ALMOST 1/2 MOA but not consistant enough to claim the rifle as being sub MOA.

wolf 148gr. bimetal, 1.25" @ 100 yds.

7N1 at 100, about an inch

7N1 at 100 yds, about an inch

7N1 at 100 yds....about half an inch.....these targets were shot in succession with scantly a minute between strings, the barrel was not cleaned or given much time to cool between strings.

My PSL bagged up on a concrete bench, the 200 yard targets are the teeny strip way back in the woods.

My girl....
So in closing could the OP have gotten 5 inch groups at 800 yards? well I dont have any evidence to disprove his claim but from what I`ve experienced the PSL can be darned accurate given the right load.
Thanks for your time,
Bossman

haha, I have read that exact post in another forum. I am not certain which one but I remember reading this somewhere else. Thanks for bringing it back up and welcome to THR

GarandOwner said:

Me-thinks you are telling tales my friend, your claim of 5" groups is sketchy, but saying you can hit a pack of cigarettes at 100 yards with a hand gun......that just sounds too fantastic to be true

Click to expand...

You doubt him? Well I can split drinking straws at 150, I mean 200, I mean 1000 yards using my stock BB gun, I mean 1911 given to me by my dad, uncle I mean grandfather-yeah that's it. I can only do it on the second Tuesday in Smarch using special reloads. In fact, my powder is made by Alliant, Hodgdon, I mean Tinker Bell-yeah yeah that's right and my 200 grain wad cutters are blessed by none other than the Pope, I mean Jesus, I mean... Harry Potter yeah Harry Potter. Potter gave me the bullets which he got right from Ghandi, I mean Aliens I mean Elmer Keith-yeah, yeah that's it.

your killing me,I almost spit coffee all over my key board.
pete

my psl

Well, since this was revived, I'll point out that Centerfire Systems has the Romak-III, with the super nice poly furniture, for $649, without the scope. They sell the scopes, but that is an easy choice for someone who is going to put a higher power scope on it anyway. The poly furniture is great, fits tight, and the stock is amazingly comfortable compared to the dropping comb on the PSL. Here is a picture of mine, before they did the adjustable l.o.p.. Oh, you can buy just the furniture there, too.

They are capable of that kind of accuracy, every com bloc rifle has its favorite ammo, my mosin likes bulgarian heavy ball for example. I wish we could get dragonovs for a reasonable price, if they didnt make a grouping at 100 yards of an inch or less the factory didnt ship them out.

They definitely ship out Dragunov Tigrs that have grouped over an inch. My 620mm Tigr shipped out with the Izhmash booklet saying "The extreme spread of impacts when firing at a 100-m range (three four-shot groups) is: - over iron sight 37mm"

MOA = 29.1mm

over irons 1.3 MOA sounds just fine to me though.

I'm seriously sceptical of the PSL grouping 5-6 inches at 800 yards in the same way I'm sceptical of a Dragunov grouping like that at 800 yards, and me being a Dragunov owner. That's not to say it's impossible. If you hand loaded the perfect load and shot enough groups you may just do it.

My Dragunov

Here are a few pics of the new Dragunov Carbine by Waffen Werks AK 54 R

the new Dragunov Carbine

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You mean the new PSL Carbine. Please don't feed the misconception that these are Drangunovs.


Cool little blaster though. Is that a standard AKM upper gas tube on that? Hmm, I wonder if an Ultimak would fit?

Dear Atlantic Firearms, please please please resist the temptation to use the word Dragunov when referring to PSL based rifles, it`s misleading if done through ignorance and dishonest if done with foreknowledge.

Just saying, youre a fine company, but please represent your products for what they are, Romanian PSL rifles have not one thing in common with the SVD dragunov other than their outward appearance, chambering and similar use in military applications.

Please just call them a PSL, you will still sell just as many and you`ll feel better about yourself knowing you were honest with your customers.

wow bossman thanks for, info and pics on your psl. i finally placed an order yesterday through aim suruplus for their psl, should be here in about a week or so. will post some pics and results later

Q from a buddy of mine with a PSL:

How do you deal with the problem of re-zeroing the scope every time you disassemble the rifle, especially since using corrosive ammo requires frequent cleaning of the gas system, etc.? Should the scope stay zeroed when removing the mount? How is all this best accomplished? Thanks!

It should hold zero when you pull the scope of the slide mount.