Strongest .44 special revolver that isn't a magnum
- Thread starter steelhead
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fireside44
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Not sure.
But I know what you are thinking, and I like it.
But I know what you are thinking, and I like it.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
I would have to say the Ruger Blackhawk as well. With its massive solid frame and a cylinder pin a quarter inch in diameter, running the length of the cylinder and supported in the frame on both ends, the Blackhawk is far stronger than any double-action.
snooperman
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I agree
My Ruger blackhawk is stronger than my double action guns. I have killed many wild hogs withh it and is my constant companion when I am in the woods.
My Ruger blackhawk is stronger than my double action guns. I have killed many wild hogs withh it and is my constant companion when I am in the woods.
Starter52
Member
The Blackhawk for sure, and for a DA revolver I vote for the S&W Model 624.
Jim Watson
Member
Freedom Arms will sell you a .44 Special on the "small" '97 frame.
My Ruger Flat top in 44 SPL is as heavily built as any Blackhawk. It had no problem with my 240 L with 7.5 grs Unique.
Code:
[SIZE="3"]44 Spl Ruger Blackhawk 5.5"
240 LSWC Valiant 6.6 grs Unique thrown, lot UN364 3/9/92 Mixed cases, Brass WLP
Ave Vel = 899.4
Std Dev = 18.05
ES = 55.39
High = 926.3
Low= 870.9
N = 10
240 LSWC Valiant 7.5 grs Unique thrown, lot UN364 3/9/92 Mixed cases, Brass WLP
Ave Vel = 1007
Std Dev = 19.41
ES = 59.26
High = 1038
Low= 978.8
N = 12[/SIZE]SharpsDressedMan
member
Let's remember that the S&W Model 24 is built on the original N-frame, which was ORIGINALLY introduced as a .44 Special. Although the Model 29 followed, most shooters feel that the N-frame is on the light side compared to later, heavier frame .44 Magnums (Redhawk, Super Blackhawk, etc. So if you bought a 624, or 24, you are getting a .44 Special framed gun.......
Action_Can_Do
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The smaller frame blackhawk is not as strong as the larger frame blackhawk. Insufficient strength was the reason the larger frame blackhawk was created. My money on the strongest 44 special would be the Freedom Arms gun.
Naphtali
Member
If everyone refers to the standard Blackhawk cylinder and frame, we are in partial agreement. If everyone refers to the newer flat top frame, unh-uh. As strong as the standard Blackhawk frame, but a heck've'a lot more petit, is Freedom Arms' M97 as a five-shot 44 Special. At the bottom is a thumbnail of measurements taken by John Taffin. While these data refer to 45 Colt revolvers, the conclusions you will reach are shared with the 44 Special versions of these revolvers. The only downside accruing to the M97 is the maximum length cartridge the cylinder will accept might be shorter than what either Blackhawk version will accept.
Having written that, my M97 45 Colts shoot 300-grain Saeco SWC GS with 21.9 grains of H110 in Winchester brass, CCI 350 primers. Depending upon which revolver I shoot, the lowest chronographed velocity has been 1150 fps ±20 fps. If a 44 Special load need be heavier than this, perhaps some magnum big bore is in order.
Hope this helps.
Having written that, my M97 45 Colts shoot 300-grain Saeco SWC GS with 21.9 grains of H110 in Winchester brass, CCI 350 primers. Depending upon which revolver I shoot, the lowest chronographed velocity has been 1150 fps ±20 fps. If a 44 Special load need be heavier than this, perhaps some magnum big bore is in order.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks all for the suggestions and comments. Given me a lot to think about. I am basically looking to get a little more out of the .44 spl - think low side of the magnum without having to step up to a magnum sized revolver. In addition, I want to focus on fewer calibers that I reload for and don't really want to pick up another caliber. I already have a .480 Ruger for thumping but the revolver is HUGE and doesn't carry well.
The Lipsey's .44 spl Blackhawk is made on an all steel receiver - so maybe that will be enough to meet my needs of something that is still fairly small, good sights and can handle some hotter albeit not super hot loads.
The Lipsey's .44 spl Blackhawk is made on an all steel receiver - so maybe that will be enough to meet my needs of something that is still fairly small, good sights and can handle some hotter albeit not super hot loads.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I have a 5" 1950 Target S&W and I love it.
The only reason for the .44 Spl for me is to get a lighter carry gun in a serious caliber.
I load a 240 Keith SWC over 7.5 Unique for close to 1,000 FPS, (The old SKeeter Skelton load) and I am confident it will kill anything that needs killing in this part of the world.
Without excessive recoil or muzzle blast.
If you want more power then that, you want a .44 Magnum with it's additional weight, recoil, and ear splitting blast.
rc
The only reason for the .44 Spl for me is to get a lighter carry gun in a serious caliber.
I load a 240 Keith SWC over 7.5 Unique for close to 1,000 FPS, (The old SKeeter Skelton load) and I am confident it will kill anything that needs killing in this part of the world.
Without excessive recoil or muzzle blast.
If you want more power then that, you want a .44 Magnum with it's additional weight, recoil, and ear splitting blast.
rc
Naphtali
Member
Steelhead:
I, too, own Super Redhawk 480s. And, you bet, they are big and clumsy. The thumbnails at the bottom show what I had done to one of mine to mitigate the clumsiness. This revolver is what Ruger should have offered as a standard variation. They did not, and the 480 is no more.
The first three thumbnails are my 'smithed 480. The remainder are the same principle, but done not nearly as well. My gunsmith did not affix front sight base with screws. And since the bead blasted finish cannot be maintained without a blasting machine, I invested a small amount to have the very durable brushed hard chrome finish.
A properly set up SRH 480 is comfortable to carry, intuitive to use.
Hope this helps.
I, too, own Super Redhawk 480s. And, you bet, they are big and clumsy. The thumbnails at the bottom show what I had done to one of mine to mitigate the clumsiness. This revolver is what Ruger should have offered as a standard variation. They did not, and the 480 is no more.
The first three thumbnails are my 'smithed 480. The remainder are the same principle, but done not nearly as well. My gunsmith did not affix front sight base with screws. And since the bead blasted finish cannot be maintained without a blasting machine, I invested a small amount to have the very durable brushed hard chrome finish.
A properly set up SRH 480 is comfortable to carry, intuitive to use.
Hope this helps.
If one wants "hotter albeit not super hot loads" for the .44 special, why not simply go with a .44 mag and no risk damaging the gun or yourself with over spec loads in the .44 special? Wanting a .44 special built with .44 mag strength to me means buy a .44 mag.
w_houle
Member
I thought there were some .357s that lent themselves to being converted to .44 spl
The purpose is to get a smaller framed firearm than what the .44 Mag's are normally built on but still have enough strength to take the hotter .44 special loads.
Action_Can_Do
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Naphtali
I always thought that short barreled super reds were ugly, but yours is gorgeous!
I always thought that short barreled super reds were ugly, but yours is gorgeous!
Magnumite
Member
The originol 44 Magnum Blackhawk was built on the smaller frame. After testing by some writers, shooters and engineers at Ruger, the Super Blackhawk was developed with following changes and reasons. None of the improvements were for strength.
Larger frame with longer cylinder to accomodate longer overall length rounds;
Unfluted cylinder to add weight which dampens recoil;
The longer XR3-Red grip frame to move the hand farther away from the trigger guard, thus helping to prevent knuckle rap;
The dragoon type trigger guard to help prevent knuckle rap;
The 7.5" barrel for better ballistics, sight radius and weight to counter act recoil.
The later Blackhawks were all made on Super frames.
So I would say, if the new Ruger 44 Special Blackhawk is made on the original size frame and NOT on the New Vaquero size frame, then yes, it could take heavy 44 Special class loads. Even Elmer Keith didn't load 250 grainers past 1200 fps on strong 44 Special guns.
Larger frame with longer cylinder to accomodate longer overall length rounds;
Unfluted cylinder to add weight which dampens recoil;
The longer XR3-Red grip frame to move the hand farther away from the trigger guard, thus helping to prevent knuckle rap;
The dragoon type trigger guard to help prevent knuckle rap;
The 7.5" barrel for better ballistics, sight radius and weight to counter act recoil.
The later Blackhawks were all made on Super frames.
So I would say, if the new Ruger 44 Special Blackhawk is made on the original size frame and NOT on the New Vaquero size frame, then yes, it could take heavy 44 Special class loads. Even Elmer Keith didn't load 250 grainers past 1200 fps on strong 44 Special guns.
Action_Can_Do
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the original 44 magnum blackhawk was not built on the smaller frame. Ruger built 3 44 magnums on the smaller frame, and one exploded during testing. The only 44 magnum blackhawks ever sold to the public were on the larger frame.
Magnumite
Member
Bill Ruger did chamber the original Blackhawk frame in the 44 Magnum. That is how he actually was able to compete right away with Smith and Wesson for sales of the 44 Magnums. He found out, however, the frame was not optimum for the cartridge. Do a web search on the history of the Ruger Super Blackhawk revolver. Here's one link:
http://www.gunblast.com/Hamm_SuperBlackhawk1.htm
The Super Blackhawk as we know it today took form in 1959.
http://www.gunblast.com/Hamm_SuperBlackhawk1.htm
The Super Blackhawk as we know it today took form in 1959.
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Well you finally got to the point.
Find a Model 624 in 44 Spl. You will have to find it on the used market, but I doubt they have been fired much.
When mine was new I shot thousands of 240 L 7.5 grains Unique. Now I am shooting 240 L with 6.25 to 6.5 grains Unique because I am tired or recoil.
Code:
[SIZE="3"]4" M624
240 LSWC Valiant 6.6 grs Unique thrown, lot UN364 3/9/92 Mixed cases, Brass WLP
T = 70 °F 4-Apr-09
Ave Vel = 859.6
Std Dev = 21.7
ES = 77.85
High = 878.4
Low= 800
N = 10
240 LSWC 7.0 grains Unique, Midway cases, WLP (brass)
T= 45-50 °F 15 Dec 2002
Ave Vel = 883
Std Dev = 35
ES = 127.6
Low = 812
High = 939.6
N = 14
240 LSWC Valiant 7.5 grs Unique thrown, lot UN364 3/9/92 Mixed cases, Brass WLP
T = 70 °F 4-Apr-09
Ave Vel = 965.8
Std Dev = 23.15
ES = 65.28
High = 986.3
Low= 921
N = 12
240 JHP 6.5 grs Unique thrown, Midway Brass WLP
Accurate T = 64 °F 25-Feb-07
Ave Vel = 791.4
Std Dev = 34.78
ES = 114.5
Low = 845.6
High = 731.1
N = 9 [/SIZE]
Here's the problem: a Blackhawk is a Blackhawk. It's not a smaller gun just because the step in charge hole diameter is a bit farther back from the forcing cone.
Ditto for an N-frame. The 624 above looks exactly like my 629 Mountain Gun, except for a slightly shorter cylinder and a bit more of the barrel protruding into the frame opening. They're built on the same frame, and the barrel contours are the same. They'd fit in the same holster and I doubt they are more than 2 oz. different in weight.
You will have a hard time finding a .44 Special that's smaller or dramatically lighter than a .44 Magnum new in 2009, unless you go with something like a Charter Bulldog, which is a 5-shot built specifically for .44 Special, or a 396 Night Guard, S&W's lightweight 5-shot .44 Special -- or with one of the S&W Classic series: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...ING&attributeValueOperator1=EQUAL&isFirearm=Y
CDNN has .44 Magnum Blackhawk flattops on the smaller frame for under 400 bucks right now, BTW.
You can get a lighter, faster-slinging .44 Special from USFA, but they're not necessarily meant for hot loads.
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
No, he did not.
As already stated, he chambered three .357 Blackhawks as protypes, and proceeded to blow one up.
The very first .44 Mag Flat-Tops sold to the public had a larger frame & cylinder then the smaller .357 Flat-Tops.
I have owned both, and I'm here to tell you they wouldn't even fit in the same holsters.
rc
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