DeputyVaughn
Member
Explains the black helicopters I guess......
Scott
Scott
Learned that buying anything 7.62 and larger gets you on a permanent ATF list
- Thread starter leadcounsel
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
ANY story that starts "I heard in a gun store......." can be safely ignored 
Gungnir
Member
How would the ATF know, if you go to Wally world or any gun store here in AK, you flash your drivers license, you don't need to sign anything, they don't need your address, and nothing's recorded.
In WA same thing.
So, how exactly are they tracking it...?
Mind you if they were I'd be hosed or on it, but no-one's ever asked for anything but proof of age, for anything from 7.62 and down and 7.62 up. You could tell him next time you go in, you're not buying ammo from him any more because he has to report you to the ATF, whereas if you go to Wally World, you don't get reported. See what he likes with them potatoes.
In WA same thing.
So, how exactly are they tracking it...?
Mind you if they were I'd be hosed or on it, but no-one's ever asked for anything but proof of age, for anything from 7.62 and down and 7.62 up. You could tell him next time you go in, you're not buying ammo from him any more because he has to report you to the ATF, whereas if you go to Wally World, you don't get reported. See what he likes with them potatoes.
Balog
Member
What an appalling bit of silliness. I suppose anything reported with that many exclamation points at the end is bound to be...
Wildyams
Member
Years and years ago the place I work at used to keep track of all the ammo sales. In spiral notebooks they would record the caliber, weight of bullet, amount bought, date sold, buyers name and I think address even. I ran into them when cleaning out the warehouse last summer.
Not sure if that was any sort of law or just records the store wanted to keep? (the records were from before I was born, but I'm a youngin)
Not sure if that was any sort of law or just records the store wanted to keep? (the records were from before I was born, but I'm a youngin)
flrfh213
Member
i have had several 7.62 or larger.. all i have to say is SPELL MY DAMN NAME RIGHT..... and for what it is worth, i have had smaller too... so does that keep me off the LIST?
IIRC, it used to be law for that information to be taken. Yes, that's right, it used to be that the gunstore had to take you info down if you were buying ammunition.
I do believe that was repealed under the 1986 FOPA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
A lot of people criticize FOPA for the MG registery being closed (thanks to the Hughes Amendment), but it did firearm owners a lot of good in other areas, such as safe passage laws.
12131
Member
Yup, that about sums it up.
NVCZ
Member
I'd go back to the store, all out of breath saying the ATF came to the house, as they went in the front you went out the back and came to the store for safety. Could you hide in the back room? Make him swear he won't tell the agents where you're hiding. lmao
NVCZ
NVCZ
evan price
Member
IF THAT WERE TRUE (and I'm not saying it is)
People who make LISTS like that, need to remember that-
THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN MAKE LISTS.
Anyway, it's pure bovine excrement. Besides, buy a gun with a 4473, you ae on the "list" anyway.
People who make LISTS like that, need to remember that-
THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN MAKE LISTS.
Anyway, it's pure bovine excrement. Besides, buy a gun with a 4473, you ae on the "list" anyway.
berettaprofessor
Member
Leadcounsel or Eddie NFL you out there?
Leadcounsel; I guess I'd like to know what motivation the store owner had to tell you this. Did it come up in casual conversation? Were you looking at a 45auto? or a 50cal? Was he/she trying to impress you with their inside knowledge so you'd believe them on some other point. And yes, it's BS...although I don't think anyone's pointed out yet that on the BATFE paperwork kept by the FFL, the caliber is noted.
EddieNFL; care to elaborate on your statement (copied below)? How could they possibly track you down from an ammo purchase? Unusual caliber? Fed-controlled bullets? what? Sure that they didn't track you down from the serial number of the rifle?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Leadcounsel; I guess I'd like to know what motivation the store owner had to tell you this. Did it come up in casual conversation? Were you looking at a 45auto? or a 50cal? Was he/she trying to impress you with their inside knowledge so you'd believe them on some other point. And yes, it's BS...although I don't think anyone's pointed out yet that on the BATFE paperwork kept by the FFL, the caliber is noted.
EddieNFL; care to elaborate on your statement (copied below)? How could they possibly track you down from an ammo purchase? Unusual caliber? Fed-controlled bullets? what? Sure that they didn't track you down from the serial number of the rifle?
Inquiring minds want to know.
chuckusaret
member
If the ATF wants to find out who has bought weapons from a gun shop, would they not just supeona the gun shop records (form 4473) that should be on file for every gun sold at that store. How do you think the ATF in Crazyfornia recently was able to track down what gun shop sold weapons that were used in a crime and close the shop.
Gungnir
Member
LOL, well in that case I'm hosed anyway... But how come the purchase of my TAC-50 and my Win Mag BAR hell even my 30-06 Mossy didn't have any difference than my Robinson XCR, etc. etc. etc. Plus there's nothing that I can see in the documentation and Regs for my type 1 FFL I'm applying for. I do see you have to fill in a multiple purchase report for someone buying 2 or more handguns at the same time (or within 5 business days) that's something I didn't know, it's forwarded to the ATF Firearms tracing center and Local or State LEO but all information has to be destroyed at latest 6 months for local LEO mostly in 20 days, the ATF is a bit of a black hole on that one. See below for the requirement text.
So... How they getting the rifle information? It doesn't appear to be the FFL (if there's something hokey said to me when I get interviewed or start trading I'll report back), the 4473 stays at the FFL, and needn't be reported back to the ATF, NICS by law has to destroy any purchaser information before the days end, and doesn't include any information about the sale equipment. Are they using psychics and distance readers to discern the content of the 4473's without talking to the FFL?
Multiple handgun purchase report text
pbratton
Member
The ATF would not need any legal documents to come by a gunshop and get a copy of THEIR paperwork.
The gunshop is simply the custodian of the ATF's documents.
chuckusaret
member
You are correct....................
bababooey32
Member
Good lord. Please leave your breathlessly hyperbolic talking points for the Daily Kos boards. Either that or cite one instance where an American citizen was "strip[ped] away of [laws and constitutional amendments]..."? You can't, because it never happened.
Gungnir
Member
Jose Padilla...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Padilla_(prisoner)
US Citizen stripped of constitutional protections after being accused of being a terrorist.
Happened in the late '70s. I was stationed in SC and, at the time, law required vendors to record ammo sales. Detective told me that's how they tracked me down since there was no record of sale for the rifle. They found me about two weeks after the murder.
berettaprofessor
Member
What caliber? Pretty tough to believe they'd go through every purchaser of 30-06 or 30-30 in a 3 county radius in South Carolina expecting someone to actually tell the truth.....
bababooey32
Member
Jose Padilla's case was heard in 2 different US District Courts, the US Court of Appeals, the US Supreme Court, . He was ultimately tried and convicted in a US civilian court and he is suing in civil court. In what way was he stripped of constitutional protections? Sounds like he took full advantage of the due process afforded to US citizens.
That is precisely the point of constitutional protections: they provide forums in which disagreements can be decided based on the law of the land, which is precisely what happened with Jose Padilla.
Keeping this on topic, while the government may break the law, the mechanisms by which to hold them accountable remain in place. I read your post as claiming those mechanisms had been dissolved or mitigated by the previous administration (are we still blaming them for everything?).
That is precisely the point of constitutional protections: they provide forums in which disagreements can be decided based on the law of the land, which is precisely what happened with Jose Padilla.
Keeping this on topic, while the government may break the law, the mechanisms by which to hold them accountable remain in place. I read your post as claiming those mechanisms had been dissolved or mitigated by the previous administration (are we still blaming them for everything?).
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