Unecessary LEO

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I don't agree with the concept of refusing consent to search. The cop in this case is already being overly aggressive from the OP's point of view, refusing consent is just going to escalate the situation and make the cop feel justified in doing so. The mentality is "why would he refuse if he has nothing to hide?". Refusing consent is a great way to end up face down and cuffed, and then watch it get covered up later, swept under the rug by everyone involved and their superiors, and their superiors' superiors, etc.

I think trigun87 took the right course - co-operated, provided all the info and documentation requested, and was rather grudgingly released. The basis of our rights are legal, and must be defended in the courts, NOT on the side of the road. If the OP does want to defend his rights, the way to do it is to hire a lawyer and start down the long hard road of legal action. Doing it any other way just plays into the hands of those doing the profiling. Having a lawyer's card handy is not a bad idea, if its not a bluff.

I feel for you trigun, there's no excuse for what you have to put up with, and most of us middle aged white guys never have to experience it. I wish I had some good advice for you, but I don't think there is any. Best I can do is suggest that you not let it make you bitter, you can't control other people's behavior, but you can control your own. Doing the right thing in the face of everyone else doing wrong is something to take pride in, and this can give you the self confidence to be above all that crap you have to put up with.
 
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Always remember the policeman is not your friend. There just doing there job some much better then others.
 
I would of asked him "would you like to see my receipt for my pants and shirt as well?"

Questions like that are not needed at all, and he knows it.


I'll give consent to a search... that's fine. It's just stupid questions that irritate me. :)
 
I don't agree with the concept of refusing consent to search.
Then you don't agree with the 4th Amendment.

I don't want ANYTHING to do with the police. That's why I endeavor to obey the law. Letting people rifle through my vehicle or home for no good reason violates that goal to have NOTHING to do with the police.

You have absolutely NO duty to consent to a search, nor beyond very strict limits. to talk to the police. The cop can like it or lump it. He has a choice, obey the law or not. If the answer is "not" there are consequences. Refusal of consent is not RAS, much less PC, no matter who likes it or not.

You should NEVER consent to a search. If he asks for permission, the odds are he has no probable cause to search in the first place. He's looking for a stupid criminal. If you're NOT a stupid criminal, there's precisely ZERO reason for you to play along. If he ignores your denial of consent, don't resist him. Carefully note all of the particulars. If lawful, record the incident. Then go DIRECTLY to the police department and file a WRITTEN complaint concerning that rights violation. Also immediately consult an attorney.

The law applies to EVERYONE. Police who do not obey the law are more destructive than any common criminal.
 
...but what you have there is a non-issue.

I have to disagree. I'm a white male who has been pulled over exactly three times in 30 years behind the wheel. Twice for exceeding the speed limit by more than 10 mph and once for running a red light. Righteous stops. I made it through my '20s without a single traffic stop while driving a bright red Porsche! If anyone was going to be stopped for Driving While Young, it was going to be me.

My former brother-in-law, a black man a couple of years younger than me, gets stopped three or four times a year. Once, he had his new SKS in a soft case in the back seat. That resulted in three police cars, two hours on the side of the road, (where his boss drove by) and a drug sniffing dog.

I don't know if the same thing would have happened to me had I had a rifle in the back seat, but I do know that I'm much less likely to be stopped in the first place. If you don't believe racial profiling has happened and is still happening in the U.S. you are not paying attention.
 
I know this is off topic kinda but I found out how not to talk to police.
When they say..
"Mr. ____ do you know why I pulled you over?"

The wrong thing to say is
"If you don't know then I sure as heck have no clue". I was young and learned fast.

Everytime he saw me after that he would follow me until he could get cause to stop me.

Sorry for the thread drift but the look on his face still is funny 35 years later.
 
I don't agree with the concept of refusing consent to search. The cop in this case is already being overly aggressive from the OP's point of view, refusing consent is just going to escalate the situation and make the cop feel justified in doing so. The mentality is "why would he refuse if he has nothing to hide?".

This is HORRIBLE advice. You have RIGHTS and you should NEVER give them up an inch farther than the law requires. NOTHING good can happen to you because you volunteer information that is not required, and a GREAT deal of harm can result.

The job of law enforcement has a specific scope, certain duties, and definite boundaries. As with almost all professions, a few bad apples will try to push the limits -- for power, for a "better" professional record, or just through poor judgment. These folks work for the public. The public employs them and the public has the right -- the duty even -- to hold them responsible for their actions and accountable if they step beyond their rightful professional duties.

Refusing consent is a great way to end up face down and cuffed, and then watch it get covered up later, swept under the rug by everyone involved and their superiors, and their superiors' superiors, etc.
Some folks might PRAY for this to happen. It's a much surer way to become affluent than hard work or a lotto ticket! Unreasonable search and seizure, harassment -- especially if there's a taint of racism involved, and criminal conspiracy to cover such things up are pretty much universally reviled throughout the US at this point. And there are many thousands of hungry lawyers who'd line up around the block for the chance to help you eat them alive.

-Sam
 
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Me being pulled over about once every month for a ROUTINE traffic stop is almost the normal racial profiling.

There are many reasons, other than race, that a LEO would stop a vehicle. I am white, drive a Buick Century, have CWL, live in Florida, haven't had a traffic ticket in my life and get stopped at least once per month for no reason. Can this be called racial profiling, no because I am white.
 
There are many reasons, other than race, that a LEO would stop a vehicle. I am white, drive a Buick Century, have CWL, live in Florida, haven't had a traffic ticket in my life and get stopped at least once per month for no reason.
If you're getting stopped ONCE A MONTH, there IS a reason or cops are engaged in a pattern of misconduct.

Either stop giving them a reason or see that that misconduct is punished.

Misconduct (yours or theirs) doesn't justify somebody else's unrelated misconduct.
 
I'm disgusted that this kind of garbage continues to this day in the USA.

That said, cops are human beings, Police Departments hire the willing and so you get the brave & altruistic along with the bigoted sadists. Hopefully, the latter get flushed out of the system at some point, but not always. This particular breed of psychopath is usually just smart enough to hide their proclivities.

You, (OP) have been dealing with this your whole life and so you already know how to keep a cool head in these situations.

I can only add my +1 to the advice given above. Don't 'chat' with the police, and never ever give your consent to search your vehicle or possessions without a warrant. You can do both without being hostile. Just like the police are fond of saying "Be polite and courteous to everybody but friendly to none. Officer Friendly is not your friend while you're being detained.

I do understand that you have a genuine reason to be afraid of declining a police 'request'. You never know if the particular officer you're dealing with is an ignorant psychopath. If you search around here on THR there are plenty of threads on how to interact politely & humorously with the police while maintaining & exercising your civil rights.

Some of my favorites:

Officer: Do you know why I stopped you?
Driver: No.

Officer: Where are you coming from?
Driver: From conducting some lawful private business, Officer.

Officer: Where are you going?
Driver: I'm on my way to conduct some more lawful private business, Officer.

Officer: May I take a look in your vehicle?
Driver: No. I do not give consent to any searches.

You don't have to be all stiff & formal. Some of the best responses I've read here are idiomatic. "You know officer, I don't know where your going with all these questions, but I don't want to discuss my life's story here on the side of the highway".

If you do go to the department to speak with the higher ups, be polite and remember you're dealing with human beings. Human beings trapped in a bureaucratic system. The supervisor you speak to may be frustrated with managing this particular officer (Oh no, what had this guy done now?) to being fearful of his department being sued. Give him the benefit of the doubt.

Best of luck.
 
Are you serious about "on AVERAGE, I get pulled over once a month"? I see your tag is "go bucs" is that buckeyes (Ohio) or the Florida Buccaneers? I know no one from Florida but I know 2 people (both black) from Ohio who have been pulled over for possibly phony stops only once & three times in their combined 25 years of driving. Hell, I'm a white Minnesotan and have been pulled over 3-4 times for extremely dubious reasons. I KNOW that two of those times were due to my driving an '83 Chevy Camaro Z-28 with the T-Tops off. They either wanted to get a closer look at the car or (?). Other times were just one of those "go figure" moments. No reason, no ticket, no warning and no apology.

Everything isn't racist.
 
He ask to search my car I gave permission
I'm much older than you and white, but I'd refuse permission.......always.
Get out, lock the doors, keys in your pocket, stay in view of the dashcam.
"Officer, am I being detained?"
I have a condo in Ybor. My (white) friend and I walked down to the strip around 2:30am one weekend night to troll for women.
I live in Tampa. You couldn't PAY me to go to Ybor at 2:30 am. Crime is off the charts.
If I were a cop, I'd be telling EVERYONE to keep moving.
There was a string of stabbings and shootings from the Hip-Hop clubs a while back as I recall.
Trolling for women? What woman other than a hooker would be in Ybor at 2:30 am?
I'm sure you're a fine young man, but you'll find more drug dealers than decent women after midnight in Ybor.
 
Why would you ever consent to a search?

My guess is that something is triggering attention to you.

Maybe the way you drive, or when/where, or maybe your car attracts attention for some reason.

If you think you have a case, go talk to the ACLU or NAACP. I think you will find that this kind of behaviour by LE is pretty common and its usually not a racial thing. It does not make it right, but its pretty common for LE to zero in on certain people.
 
I have to agree with everyone else who has said that you should report this, contact an attorney, AND if it happens again never consent to a search. Good luck, and I hope it doesn't happen again.
 
Some days you just can't do anything right. You should have politely asked him what gave him cause to ask you to search your car. And is that a standard request. That may have stopped him right there. May not, but he would have had to think a bit more about his actions.
If you really wanted to cause a problem and risk further action, you might have asked for a supervisor and just said something like I am getting tired of this racial profiling every time I drive around this area.
 
If you really wanted to cause a problem and risk further action, you might have asked for a supervisor and just said something like I am getting tired of this racial profiling every time I drive around this area.
Don't "banter" with the police. Leave that to "Law & Order".

Save any further official communications with the police for an ON THE RECORD OFFICIAL COMPLAINT. If he's playing around outside of the law, you owe him NOTHING and can expect nothing from him except dishonesty. Use the system and don't have any qualms about doing so. That's why it's there.
 
Asking for the purchase receipt is akin to the German police drunk test given to Steve Martin's character in "The Man with Two Brains". He was stopped, walked the line for them, and then had to juggle three balls and tap dance at the same time (which he did). After being released, he commented, "Damn, your drunk tests are hard!" or something to that effect. I once had one of my co-workers tell about a balloon test they gave one local drunk (public intox, but on foot). They pulled out a balloon, and as the drunk reached for it, they said, "Our test is a little different." At which the officer blew up the balloon, and told the drunk to catch it, and then let it go. They just wanted to see if he would try (which he did, with no success). Not acceptable behavior at all, but still funny. In the meantime, asking for ridiculous or impossible things is not acceptable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MXU3J6Qbs
 
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I got lots of crap when I was 18-21 from Police....but I was a young white male who wore baggy pants (Jncos if anyone knows what those are), long heavy cloth shirts and drove sporty cars...not to mention played my music a bit loud for common taste (I never shook windows or the like, but it was loud).

I used to keep about 4-5 nice cigars with me all the time....guess what, every pull-over they'd search my car and tear apart all my cigars, when it was obvious they weren't used for making a "blunt" or any other illicit use. They basicaly gave me a regular shakedown.

Take it as you will, but I think they're just giving you crap for being a young male. At least I hope racism is dead enough that people don't partake in actions based on race anymore.
 
I think I'll be the 3rd or 4th LEO to say this:
Never, ever, ever consent to a search

and in case it wasn't clear,

NEVER, EVER, EVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH!

You should automatically notice there is a reason why several Officers (in good standing) are telling you this.

I am siding with you, in that I genuinely believe we can take your word for what happened. If there is one group of people that absolutely detest bad law enforcement, its good officers! Because we have to deal with their aftermath by way of a negative example.
Having said that (and please understand me when I say this) I have never pulled over someone that was black that didn't break the law of make some offense. ...wait, hold on... Nor, have I done some with anyone white, brown, yellow, purple etc. What I mean by that is (and I would bet most officers are this way) when it comes to traffic, especially highway. There is no time to see what color the person is. I can't tell you how many times I've stopped someone for speeding, having no idea they are male, female, black, white, and as soon as I get to the car I don't have time to say, "Sir I pulled you over because..." and I get, "Aww its cuz I'm black!". I wish I could say it solely happens to white officers, but I am flabbergasted when it happens to a black officer from a black citizen. I don't get that one.
I am extremely adamant about racial profiling and I have zero tolerance for officers that do that.
When it comes to profiling, you also have to understand its also how you act and look, not what color you are. When someone has a colored bandana, pants saggin', certain style or brand shirt its an indicator of something. Race has nothing to do with the fact that you look like your do some, 'straight up bangin'. :barf:
I can tell, not only by your description, but also your writing - you are well versed and richly educated. So I surmise you don't 'look' like trouble. Although unpleasant, in this situation you did very well. But learn for next time... Do not give consent to search. You are inviting an officer to look for something to pin on you (just like they did). Its always a big can of worms you're opening.
I do like the 'move your carry license out of site from ID', and if legal in your state, if you do not have to tell an officer your armed. DON'T!!!
I know it's asinine to you and me but there are plenty of officers that have some unsubstantiated fear of legally armed citizens.

You're not the only one bud, hang in there - I know it sucks. I've been stopped and then given hell when an officer from another agency finds out I work for a competing agency. They kept me on a non-traffic walk up-n-talk for over 2 hours. Looking for everything they could to try and pin something on me. It went from 3 officers, to 2 sergeants, and finally a good lieutenant who was there all of 30 seconds before he knew as I did they had nothing and cut me loose.

Sometimes (I dunno why) officers go fishing like that, they run the gambit. Knowing your rights, and respectfully enforcing them is the easiest and best thing to being on your way again.

For the other officers here:
May just be semantics, but (in Texas) you don't need probable cause to make a traffic stop, only reasonable suspicion. And it goes without saying, that its not hard to find a reason for a stop. Follow anyone for a mile and you'll have some form of violation. I don't say this to exhonerate what a bad officer did, but without stating why, we'll never know if it was legitimate or not.
Being left to do so, I will still assume the original poster was indeed stopped for the reason he mentioned.

My hats' off to ya, partner. We're stuck with a black-eye on this one.
 
I would venture to say that the Cop was looking for a black male named Dawson that looked a lot like him.I have been white all my life and I was a LEO for 32 years and believe you me,I would much rather pull over white guys than blacks.Much less hassle all around.Trust me,if a white cop hassles blacks all the time he is in for a world of aggravation and problems.
 
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