FBI arrests 21 at SHOT 2010 Show

People working in the US are not supposed to bribe anybody, including foreign nationals, period. It's illegal. A vp of sales for a major company would know this. Indefensible.

Traditionally, sales men, middlemen, brokers, finders, deal-smoothers, 'Agents', Consultents, information-providers, in pretty well all walks of Life and of Commerce, get 'Commissions' or 'Consideration' financially or otherwise for Services Rendered.


How or when a payment or Commision for Services Rendered is formally construed to be a 'bribe' ( instead? of a traditional and universal recompense-fee-consideration ) , is sometimes less than clear.


For any branch of the US Gov't to cast asperions like this, is like a giant Caldren calling a Thimble 'Black'...


The FBI does not pay 'informants'? Outside Contractors? Deal-smoothers? Consultents?


One truly needs hip waders, if not a Wet Suit AND Scuba Gear, to swim in the BS stew of those gameboards I recon...


The real moral of the story?


Somebody forgot to grease the right lofty-enough guys in the operatively right way...

These are the laws of our country. The the government or various agencies being corrupt does not make it okay for a business to be. Two wrongs don't make a right.

The the government or various agencies being corrupt does not make it okay for a business to be.

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Sure it does. Of course the government wont see things that way, but there have been many wars throughout history fought, at least in part, for that very reason. It should also be noted that many (if not all) of those laws were written and passed by those in charge.

you know its against the law to step on the toes of the feds, how do you expect them to make any bribes and or sell weapons to those same folks, they were just trying to cut out the middleman, the fed.

Ron

Maybe our commie leader IS working a different angle!

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Oh, right. Suddenly Obama is powerful enough to telepathically induce grown adults to willingly break the law.

Get real. Believe it or not, every bad thing that happens in the world is not Obama's fault, as much as you want it to be.

If they actually violated laws and it is proven as such... lock 'em up. No excuse no matter what the industry.

Or...the 'African Country' was one not presently favored by the administration...( pending their own 'deals' and quid-pro-quos being smoothed out...)


If I want to be in Business, anywhere in the USA, I am obliged to pay ( and keep paying ) for protection against the violence of a mechanised state, in the form of a 'bribe', which then sees me handed a 'Business License', co-memorating on record, the bribe having been accepted.


If I wish to be employed, or to have an income, I must offer bribes to the IRS, for protection against their violence, and, to preserve for years, the paper co-memorations of the offers of bribes being accepted, according to their whim.


So...hmmmmmm...


No?


Yes?


Maybe?


Lol...


Yeeeeeeeesh...


Like our government and also sanctioned contractors and businesses do not 'bribe' other country's leaders and other potentates in endless ways for favorable business, military, trade, and other co-operations and concessions?

And if they refuse to be bribed, the CIA (and or sub-contractors ) remove ( tacit, and or security related ) 'support'?


Of course...


Anyway...


What is the definition of 'bribe' anyway? Where all other forms of remuneration/pay/kickbacks/financial incentive, up-front-admission-fees or other quid-pro-quo etc are distinctly different/deiferentiatable?

Guilty or innocent, that will come out.

My problem with this is, as usual, the media's spin machine.

If these guys were arrested at a Mc Donalds would that be in the headline?

No, only the SHOT show makes it sensational.

"FBI arrests 21 during Happy Meal" doesn't sell newspapers.....

BCC said:

People working in the US are not supposed to bribe anybody, including foreign nationals, period. It's illegal. A vp of sales for a major company would know this. Indefensible.

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Pretty much anybody that works for any company that exports anything outside the US knows this. I don't even work in sales, but I have to take an annual export compliance course. US companies are bound by US law when doing business overseas. That means no bribes and no gift beyond a $50 value. The fines are huge, your company can be denied the ability to export and you can end up in jail.

Interesting.

Pretty much anybody that works for any company that exports anything outside the US knows this. I don't even work in sales, but I have to take an annual export compliance course. US companies are bound by US law when doing business overseas. That means no bribes and no gift beyond a $50 value. The fines are huge, your company can be denied the ability to export and you can end up in jail.

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Sounds like a good reason to not have a US based company.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

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Mom, I didn't know you were on THR!

Yochanan Cohen - "the chief executive officer of a San Francisco company that manufactures security equipment, including body armor"
Israel Weisler and Michael Sachs - "owners and co-chief executive officers of a Stearns, Ky., company that designs, manufactures and sells armor products, including body armor"

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HighCom Security and US Cavalry respectively.

Wonder when the FBI will run another sting on members of congress? I really liked ABSCAM.

OMG... I cant believe how many people are taking the ANTI-THR here.

Business is business and a bribe is a bribe. Learn it.... love it... or go to jail.

IF Glock was found doing this to get US contracts over S&W the forums would be flush with lynch mobs looking for Gaston.

S&W does it and its "why not... that how the rest of the world does it?".

Yea... a lot of the rest of the world doesnt have human rights like we do. By your logic, why dont we just forefit some more of our human rights because thats how it is in other countries.

Im proud to live in a country that protects good business practices. If some of you dont like it.... plenty of other (more) corrupt countries for you to move to.

Absolutly dumbfounding :banghead:

People working in the US are not supposed to bribe anybody, including foreign nationals, period. It's illegal. A vp of sales for a major company would know this. Indefensible.

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Chances are the head sales guy is the one calling these shots. Of course, the CEO knows nothing about it..... Let's not forget that the money used for these bribes is often times very big bucks. An employee just doesn't go to the finance office and asks for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars for incidental expenses!

Business is business and a bribe is a bribe. Learn it.... love it... or go to jail.

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Unfortunately this is not the case. Facilitating payments and grease money are a cost of doing business overseas.

atblis said:

Sounds like a good reason to not have a US based company.

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Pretty much any civilized country has similar laws. So unless you want your corporate office in Mogadishu, you will have similar restrictions.

Even countries that have a history of bribery still have laws against it. If you don't bribe the right people, they'll be used against you.

The FBI did search warrants all over the country but decided to arrest them all after having attended the biggest gun industry assembly, INTENTIONALLY bringing bad press to our hobby's most anticipated event.

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More likely it was an event the brought all or most of the persons to the same area at the same time. Large numbers of persons arrested at a time and place tend to give better pr in the feds opinion.

We'll see where they go with this. Seems a lot of times they arrest everyone that might be involved hoping someone will roll over on the persons or organizations they are really after.

When selling to a private business there are alot of ways to bribe your way to an order. Has anyone ever had lunch bought for them by a sales rep? How about a day hunting trip on a company lease? While it is considered normal business practice in a privately owned business, when it comes to selling to a government entity it is not allowed. Those people are making decisions with all the peoples money and should not be influenced when spending everyone's money and not their own.

Our competitiveness in foreign markets is horrible and part of it lies with the regulations our country has to follow to compete.
If we intend to keep any manufacturing base here at all we must reform the way we buy and sell to foreign countries and compete in those markets. If it means tariffs and incentives then so be it, if not we will fail to compete completely with Europeans that bribe and get unfair subsidies or Asians who use slave labor and substandard materials as well as bribes and companies being owned by the government.
I also agree with those who posted on the bribes thrown out to get votes in congress.
It's to bad these guys felt they had to do this to conduct business but in a world market it is believable. Substandard equipment is what concerns me more, that is a crime that should have the harshest concequence.

I'd like to know how this investigation got started in the first place. Was there shady dealings before hand with the apprehended individuals? Was there a single catalyst that started this investigation? Os did the case get bigger as the investigation proceeded?