If you have a firearm, do you need a self-defense knife?

I carry a Kershaw Blackout Tanto blade, SHARP, nice knife, works absolutely amazing, when in doubt, pack a Kershaw, I in no way regret getting a Kershaw...

armoredman, what handgun is that in your "Tools" picture? Looks nice, and defintely nice grips..

oooooooh, Im stupid, it's a crimson trace, wasn't looking hard enough I guess...

I carry a knife everyday for general purposes and as a means of self defense. Think about being attacked from behind. There are many situations, as others have mentioned, when your firearm may not be accessable. I have recently switched to carrying my knife in the off hand position as well. It's taking some getting used to.

I also keep a larger cheap folder with a serrated blade in the truck for emergency purposes. One thing is for sure, self defense situations seldom put you in a convenient position. A knife is not too cumbersome to keep clipped on or in your pocket.

I'm not thinking of getting close enough to a BG where a knife would be effective.

Click to expand...

You should just not think of getting in any situation with a BG, that would be even better.

There is no way to assure you might not be up close and personal with a bad guy. To think you can decide what precarious positions you can find your self in and which just wont happen to you is folly.

I always carry a knife in my pocket... Just because you NEVER know when you will need it... SD, box opener, cut fishing line, etc... I also carry a leatherman... I use it to pull stove piped casings when I shoot too many rounds out of my .22, screw in loose screws, etc...

I use a Utilitarian approach when I fill my pockets up.

I've been thinking about it; I guess it's nice to have, but not really a must.

There's also another consideration which makes carrying a knife a burden. In the state that I live in, laws regarding firearms are pre-empted at the state level, but knives and other weapons are not. If I were to carry a knife for protection, I wouldn't know if/when I'm breaking some local law. Some city might limit the length of the blade allowed (say, above 3.5" and you're in trouble); others may prohibit concealed knife carry whatsoever, if intended for protection. It's just too much of a risk, and there's no such trouble with the gun.

I carry a gun, a pepper spray, and my will to survive. Hopefully, if I or a family member ever find ourselves in trouble, that would be enough.

inclusion

I should have included in post #9, that I carry my SD knife on my weak side, as many others have stated.

I read that in a brawl, the assailant gets punched, jabbed, clubbed, and yet as any at the bar, or other places can attest to, some men will just shrug that off and keep coming. -Remain there, right in your face.
A blade; not cowardly, but effective, can cause the most determined assailant to back off and give you some distance.
That is of great value.

A blade; not cowardly, but effective, can cause the most determined assailant to back off and give you some distance.

Click to expand...

There are no rules about knife usage, but like a firearm, if you produce a knife you must be willing to use it. In a bar-type scenario, I'd prefer to have an auto-opener, hit the release while bringing it low against and in line with my leg while making an expeditious vay-cay.

Lee's post number 15...

...I suggest folks read again.

Defensive tool is the key to Lee's post.
Keeping in mind it is "mindset, skill set, then tool set"....

Me?
I currently daily am not without a Victorinox Classic SD, Rayovac one watt LED flashlight, Leatherman Kick, and bandanna.

I do not always carry concealed (firearm) , as I am prone to frequent NPE's ( non permissive to weapon environments).

FWIW, I carry a Glock Appendix-IWB, a waved Spyderco accessible by my off hand, and a Spyderco Native in another pocket for everyday cutting chores.

The waved knife is strictly for defensive purposes.

question

"shockwave:"

What is a "vay-cay"?

I presume a technique, but please elaborate.

Thanks

Two days ago, I was finishing up a clinical shift at a hospital, and, walking out to my car, noticed someone in the parking garage. He was looking at his cell phone, and very well could have just been there to visit a loved one. Regardless of his intentions, he still set off some alarm bells, so I set my hand on the 3" folder clipped to my pocket. Even if you carry a gun, you may find yourself in a place where having a gun is not an option.

Also, that same knife can be used to down a plastic bag to make an occlusive dressing, cut off shoelaces to facilitate removing a shoe from an injured and swelling foot, cut through seat belts, puncture an inflated airbag, open a package, or cut bandages out of a blanket.

Should you carry a knife for self defiance? That's your call, but I would recommend carrying a good one-hand-opening knife for everything else under the sun regardless.

I like to have a stout, sturdy blade handy, far stronger than the typical SAK. For fighting? Not likely, but remotely possible.

Once upon a time, when I was the first LEO to arrive at a crash scene, a Strider AR was in my pocket, and I pulled it out to do something that no tiny SAK could have handled*, prying a windshield off a Crown Vic, while a friend was bleeding out inside the car. A paramedic had used scissors to pry off the windshield gasket, and I was about to pry the windshield from its bedding, when the fire guys finally got the driver's door pried open with their bigger hand tools. (The Jaws of Life was still enroute.)

I had not intended to make such a monster folder my EDC, but I have carried it most days, since that night. Even though my knife did not actually play a part, it almost did so. I wish I could say that my colleague survived, but he did not.

*Victorinox does indeed make a big knife, intended for the emergency responder market, but I have only seen the two I bought on-line for my wife and myself. All other SAKs I have seen are the tiny ones. Victorinox actually had a on-line video showing a fireman using that particular large SAK to do exactly what I almost did that night, prying a windshield off a car.

Furthermore, I do carry a small fixed-blade knife, designed as a weapon, when in uniform, but I figure most readers of S&T are not LEOs, so I didn't mention it above.

My philosophy is "Espada e Dagga." Or today, (instead of a sword) we would say PISTOL and Dagger.

Because not every tool is as useful as the other. Just think about both, they have advantages and dis-advantages.

no i have fists

I have started carrying a folding knife less and a leatherman more.

Need is too strong a word here. But, it's good to have. The main problem though is you want a 4" or longer blade to be able to penetrate to internal organs, and cause sufficient damage to stop an attack. (if you have such a knife you can cause much worse damage than your average pistol round). Without a blade atleast that long, stabbing will be
mostly superficial. Your main weapon then is slashing if you only have a shorter blade.

Two issues though:

#1.) Justifying stabbing someone (which you would likely have to do more than once), when you have a gun. (Why didn't you just shoot them?) And, though it is silly, we as a society have a more judgmental view of using a knife than using a gun. (also, keep in mind, if you are using a knife, that means your assailant likely also had a knife.... so why didn't you just run?). All things to consider in court.

#2.) In order to use a knife, you need to practice using a knife. And learning to use a knife is an artform that takes years. (It takes months of intense training just to be barely competent). There are many styles of knife fighting. Basically, it's alot more involved than using a gun.

the issues

Morty:

"I stabbed this attacker, even though I had a gun because it was an attempt to prevent my not having to shoot him."" I thought it would be less of a force."
Or, "I had two stronger men upon me, I was upon the ground, and they were trying to get to my gun and use it on me." One had grabbed my gun hand and was pinning it with both his hands. I needed it to get them off me."

I think that in order to use a knife, I simply have to employ it in my defense.
Yes, training would make me more efficient. But not to the level you describe.
Though it may take years of training to learn to knife fight, I have no interest in being involved with fights with knives.

Should someone attack me with a knife, I will have to do my best, and resort to my firearm.

Sir, please explain why if I use a knife to defend myself, it means that my assailant will likely have a knife? Why?

#1.) Justifying stabbing someone (which you would likely have to do more than once), when you have a gun. (Why didn't you just shoot them?) And, though it is silly, we as a society have a more judgmental view of using a knife than using a gun. (also, keep in mind, if you are using a knife, that means your assailant likely also had a knife.... so why didn't you just run?). All things to consider in court.

Click to expand...

I do not think these concerns accurately characterize self defense and use of force laws where I live. A knife is not a superior or lesser degree of force than a gun. It is deadly force. Tactically speaking one may be more justified than another in a given circumstance. Legally they are both deadly force and must pass the same hurdles and analysis.

#2.) In order to use a knife, you need to practice using a knife. And learning to use a knife is an artform that takes years. (It takes months of intense training just to be barely competent). There are many styles of knife fighting. Basically, it's alot more involved than using a gun.

Click to expand...

In order to use a gun you need to practice using a gun. Learning to use a gun is an art form that takes years. It takes months of of intense training just to be barely competent. There are multiple shooting styles and a plethora of theories and systems. Basically it is a lot more involved than you understand.

I consider edged weapons to be an area I am much weaker than empty hand or with firearms. I am not, however, totally ignorant. I have trained with multiple members of the dog brothers and others who focus on edged weapons. Being competent with a knife does take lots of work it also teaches you just how damn easy it is to get killed in a knife fight.

Guns are not magic and it also takes a great deal of work, practice and training to use them competently as well.

Should someone attack me with a knife, I will have to do my best, and resort to my firearm.

Click to expand...

Do you do any training to that end?

I don't think that a defense-type knife is necessary if you're carrying a gun. Maybe if you weren't confident in your semi-automatic's reliability it would make sense, but it would also make a lot more sense to just buy a better gun in that situation.

I don't think that a defense-type knife is necessary if you're carrying a gun. Maybe if you weren't confident in your semi-automatic's reliability it would make sense, but it would also make a lot more sense to just buy a better gun in that situation.

Click to expand...

I don't think the justification for a knife (at least for many people) is that the gun might fail. If it was wouldn't a BUG make more sense? Rather, I believe it is that there are scenarios in which a knife might be a better primary choice. Again does that equate to "need"? The individual will be the one to answer that. Further is just having it of benefit if one hasn't thought through such scenarios and is not well versed enough with the knife to make good use if it?

What is a "vay-cay"?

Click to expand...

In this case, that meant "an expeditious egress."

By the way, when I was picking up some ammo the other day, I ran into this: The Gerber Fast Draw:



From the description:

Gerber Legendary Blades is proud beyond description to introduce our first assisted opening knife. The FAST Draw relies on our proprietary new blade opening concept—Forward Action Spring Technology— that's so lightning-quick, so pleasingly easy to open with just one hand, its already drawing a lot of attention among knife folks everywhere.

Click to expand...

I had to get it, because this is a unique knife that is perfect for my range bag. It isn't a one-hand knife where you use the thumb stud on the edge to open it, and it's not an automatic, but rather it's a hybrid of the two. You select the open-lock button to "open" and give the stud a slight nudge and then it opens automatically, fast and buttery smooth.

It goes in the range bag because you often run into situations on the range where a knife is useful. I carry a knife purely for its functionality in countless situations where it's an all-around tool. One of those jobs might be defense, but that's not my reason for carrying one. If I had to pick a knife for defense it might be a thrower, some kind of tonki, a Judge's pen, emei piercers or something similar. These weapons have multiple uses and are designed for combat. Normally, you add them to your fighting system rather than train in them specifically.

For example, the wado-kai karate kata for bridge defense works great with a knife or similar held in each hand. You just do the kata you've done for years, but with blades. Same with Chinese internal systems. If you're more proficient in classical fencing, then longer blades and daggers may be your best go-to option.

Having a blade is always handy. I'm an office dweller and somehow I always find a use for it. I don't carry a tacticool knife, but the one I have could be used to open up a bad guy should the need arise.