Trying out Limited (IPSC/USPSA)

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SHusky57

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I've been shooting production for about a year now and I want to try out limited (and I want to buy something new with tax refund money).

***
1. The case for the Glock 17L
Can a gun with minor power factor compete at all? I really want a Glock 17L.... with the 6" barrel it gets some wicked velocities, and I imagine the recoil wouldn't be bad at all. With Arredondo Mag Extensions (are these reliable, they seem to be popular for IPSC) - I would get 22+1 capacity. While I wouldn't get major scoring - so long as I can make A + B shots with that huge 6" barrel, I would think the extremely low recoil combined with the extremely high capacity would give a huge advantage in stages.

2. The case for a .40
(Glock 35 or G22 probably, what is the Glock 24? but open to suggestions).
Everyone has .40 ammo. .40 ammo is less than $300 a case right now. It makes major power factor. But I also think it's the snappiest of the 3 common calibers, which means slower splits.

Really, the hardest thing to get around will be my dogmatic personal belief that .45 alone is worthy of being considered a defensive pistol caliber. I think the 180 gr .40's can probably compete just fine with .45 for a defensive pistol - and for an IPSC pistol, the .40 gets a little edge on capacity. Really, deep down, I am afraid that a Glock 35 will end up replacing my Glock 21SF as preferred anti-zombie device.

3. Screw limited - buy a S&W 625 (is there one similar in 10mm/.40?) and shoot revolver.

4. Screw limited, shoot Single Stack - short question, are stock GI 1911's able to compete in Single Stack or is it only for people who buy $1200-2400 top-end 1911s?

5. Last notes: I don't like traditional double actions. The first trigger pull throws me off, and I don't like the transition. That's why I favor the striker-fired constant action-ish Glocks, DA revolvers, or SA autos. I don't care what the trigger pull is - just keep it the same every time and I can figure it out.
 
If you want to "compete" in limited, than you've got to go major. That means .40. It's been worked out time and again, and major is the way to go if you want to compete.

.40 is fine for defense.

9mm is fine for defense.

.45 ACP is fine for defense.

Shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement has proven time and again to be more important than size of round, and ALL handguns are pretty much underpowered compared to rifles anyway.

I shoot 1911's in single stack and CDP because I LIKE the recoil impulse of the .45ACP, the single stack 1911 fits my hands very well, and I can shoot it very accurately.

IMO, go with what you enjoy shooting and what you shoot well.
 
.40 is fine for defense.

9mm is fine for defense.

.45 ACP is fine for defense.

I concur. This isn't to start a caliber war - but there is a marginal advantage to certain calibers and bullet designs over others. I believe in taking every small margin I can get.... but that's a different topic.

***
What are some good .40 guns for limited?
I was thinking about a Glock 24 (although I don't know if it fits the size requirements of USPSA) - and if not that, then a Glock 35.

Will it beat an STI with equally skilled operators shooting both guns?... probably not. But it will probably suffice to make me competitive at the club level.

What are some other options?
 
If you want to shoot limited, and it sounds like you like the Glock platform, I'd recommend a G35 or G24. I second the comments by JoeSlomo on major caliber.

As I understand it, before the G35, the G24 was the cat's meow in competition sports. The G35 and G34 were designed to fit in the IDPA (I think) "box rule" which specified max dimensions to fit in some class (I don't know which one). I also believe that the G35 is a "3 pin" gun, where the G24 is not (could be wrong here). Most people believe that the 3 pin guns are stronger. Both the G24 and G35 are still very competitive, and both are currently shot by members of the Glock shooting team.

Regarding the single stack question, I compete (and am competitive) in single stack division shooting a $420 Rock Island Armory gun. I regularly compete with 4-6 guys in my classification with Wilson Combat's, Kimber's, springers, etc. and beat them, but the gun has nothing to do with it. I do not believe that you need a 1 MOA @ 25 yard gun to compete, and win, in USPSA.

Do you currently shoot USPSA in another division besides Limited or Single Stack?
 
MOST shooters cannot compete in the true sense shooting Limited Minor. Dave Sevigny can, but we ain't Dave.

Since you are already familiar with the Glocks, it does make sense to look there first, unless you simply want to branch out. If you go with Glock, go with the 35, as it'll be legal for IDPA, also, if that matters. (the 17L and 24 won't fit the box in either USPSA or IDPA) The G-35 also would allow you to shoot .40 minor loads in Production. It's almost like cheating.......

If you shoot Limited, shoot a .40. Major scoring with maximum mag capacity. It's fun not to reload after every 10th shot, too.

S&W has their M&P 5" Pro coming out in .40 this year, and the XD-m holds 16 before after market mag extensions if you're interested in moving outside of Glocks.
 
There's no "box" for USPSA, but David E is correct that the G24 is not legal for USPSA Production, because it is not on the approved gun list. The G35 is.

To me, the G35 is one of the most flexible guns to shoot in competition. With the modifications, you can shoot it in Limited, Production, Limited 10, and Open.

If I was new to the sport and and looking for an inexpensive platform to start with, I'd go G35, but that is just me...
 
Yes, there IS a box for USPSA, but only the Production and Single Stack divisions must comply.

These dimensions are found on page 74 in the online rulebook. http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2008HandgunRulesindexed.pdf

Here are the dimensions for those not inclined to look it up:

Maximum size:

Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted
must fit wholly within a box with internal
dimensions of 8 15/16” x 6” x 1 5/8” (tolerance
+1/16”, -0”) (8.938”x6”x1.625”)
(227.01mmx152.40mmx41.28mm)
 
I stand corrected. Thanks for posting with the actual source to prove the point.
 
I agree with the advice already given. To shoot limited class, minor is doable but major is best.

If you want a Glock for limited, a G35 is probably the best pick. I used a G22 in limited for a couple years. Arredondo mag extensions work just fine. I got 20+1 in .40 and they were every bit as reliable as stock mags.

I later switched to a Para-Ordnance P16-40 after which my scores immediately improved. I do prefer a single action trigger and the heavier gun softened recoil noticeably. A DA/SA trigger gets me every time on the second shot if I'm in anything resembling a hurry.

For a revolver, S&W makes the 610 which shoots 10mm and .40 and uses moonclips. I have one and have used it in USPSA matches. This is an N frame which is on the large side but that's not such a bad thing for competiton use.
 
Will it beat an STI with equally skilled operators shooting both guns?... probably not. But it will probably suffice to make me competitive at the club level.

The reason STI's are so popular for limited and open is the fact that they are based on the 1911 platform, which means that those triggers can be made OH so SWEEEET!!! That, and a metal gun helps with recoil management. IMO, you just CAN'T beat a well tuned single action trigger.

For club competition, I would not hesitate to use a glock in limited. The price is right, they are reliable, and with enough practice you can get used to (what I consider) a crappy trigger. :)

A lot of folks think the gun will do most of the work for them, and they shell out mega cash for awesome limited and open guns that they don't shoot any better than a simple glock. Don't fall into that trap.

What are some other options?

For limited, I would stick with any of the polymers in .40. All of them run pretty well, and they have decent magazine capacity. The price is right to boot.

After you get your A card, and need that extra little boost to make master, than maybe think about upgrading to an STI. Or, if you become rich and or win the lottery. :)

Just don't get mad when us single stack dorks beat you on stages 8 rounds and 5 mag changes at a time.... :)


Have fun brother, and best of luck!
 
Joe, you shooting the Single Stack Nat's ?


I would like to, however, I am in a transitional period and am having to keep a tighter control of my budget.

Hopefully that lottery ticket finally comes through. :)
 
I fully understand!

I didn't shoot it last year for the same reason, but I got a slot this time.

Maybe I can win another gun!!
 
chbrow10 said:
Do you currently shoot USPSA in another division besides Limited or Single Stack?
I shot production last year, about 5 months of it with my actual USPSA membership. My club is a public range and so the shoots are open to USPSA and non-USPSA members.

I've been running a Glock 17 in production. We'll see what happens, but I'm thinking about the G17L. All of my pistols are 9mm and .45. I don't want to have to add another caliber to the mix. The G35 is cool, but not enough of a jump over the G17 not to get the G17L. At least that's what I'm thinking. I'll just have to figure out whether I want the G17L to be 3.5#+NY1 or not (that's how my defensive Glocks are set up).

David E said:
MOST shooters cannot compete in the true sense shooting Limited Minor. Dave Sevigny can, but we ain't Dave.

I'm pretty sure Dave has nothing supernatural about him, although it appears so. I'm guessing if we all shot 1,000 rounds a day, or even a week, combined with a heavy training regimen for a few years - we could seriously narrow the skill gap.

But I'm leaning towards the G17L simply because .40 would be a huge inconvenience. A G24 wouldn't share mags with my G17, would require me to stockpile another caliber.... and as one of my ZS buddies pointed out - "A" hits all score the same.... the key is to make "A" hits as fast as you can. That's the key to winning.
 
SHusky, you're going to be disappointed if you buy a 17L for Production. It won't fit in the box, and it's specifically prohibited on the approval list.

Honestly, for Limited, I'd do a G22. Save the $100--you're going to change the sights, trigger, and controls out anyway, and the extra 3/4" doesn't do much for you at 10 yards anyway. I shoot a G35 now, and wish I'd gone with a stock G22 starter platform.

Arredondos are good, but don't overlook Dawson or Taylors either. You may have to play with followers to get 20+1 reloadable with any of them, but you'll eventually hit the mark.
 
SHusky, I see you're in OK.

Where at? Close to OKC ?

Let me know !
 
I'm guessing if we all shot 1,000 rounds a day, or even a week, combined with a heavy training regimen for a few years - we could seriously narrow the skill gap.

Wouldn't that be nice...

Are you familiar with the Benoverse?

If not, check out the Brian Enos forums.

The forum is pretty much strictly USPSA / IDPA competition based discussion, has most of the best shooters in the country that contribute, AND it has a swap section for guns and kit. You can probably find a good limited rig for a decent price.

I've got a buddy that has swapped so many guns on that forum, he ended up getting a gun that had a frame he once owned before! LOL!
 
If you already shoot G17, transition to G22 should be easy.

I shoot production with stock G22 and shoot within 80% of the limited shooters.

Have fun!
 
HKDan - I have a G17 for production. That's why I figured buying the G17L for limited would make more sense than buying a G35.... the G35 can do production and limited - but the benefit over the G17 in production would be marginal, and it would be marginally less of a limited gun than the G17L. Yeah I would get major scoring.... but for my non-IPSCiness.... I would have to stock a new caliber, buy new mags, etc. Doesn't sound like much - but I have to get the most bang for my buck right now. I'm kind of thinking that since I'm so new anyway - focusing on getting "A" hits is going to be a more tangible benefit than going too fast and letting myself get "C"s and "D"s.

Besides.... to take ISPC lessons to self-defense - shot placement is #1 in self-defense, so I might as well start on improving that. Speed can come later.

David E - Does your last name start with "El" and end with "ge"?

JoeSlomo - I'll check out the Brian Enos forums. A lot of what I do is going to be dependent on my tax return. The only thing I really need to get is a reloading press.... I can't believe what ammo prices have done the past 3 years. Until my student loans are paid off though - I have to be realistic. Glock + military discount = good bang for buck.

ISPC for me is a hobby. It's not defensive pistol training - but it's a great supplement - and I can almost guarantee that anyone who shoots in a competitive pistol sport is better at shooting and handling than someone who doesn't... just a case in point.... I've got two friends with CHLs. About a year ago we shot about equally. Then I started shooting USPSA.... went to the range a few weeks ago.... I can shoot much smaller groups, in much faster times than they can. Accuracy + Speed = win for self-defense.

Since it is a hobby and I don't have unlimited money.... it makes the most sense to get the most bang for my buck.
$70 more per case and another $100-200 in mags = more buck (Glock 35).
 
Last edited:
David E - Does your last name start with "El" and end with "ge"?

No.

By the way, it's not "ISPC", but IPSC (International Practical Shooting Confederation)
 
I'm kind of thinking that since I'm so new anyway - focusing on getting "A" hits is going to be a more tangible benefit than going too fast and letting myself get "C"s and "D"s.

I would agree - trigger time is very beneficial. I am thinking about running my matches with G27 instead of G22 and been practicing my double taps. :D

A good drill I use is tearing a sheet of plain copy paper (8x11) and putting them on the target cardboard side by side with one piece a few inches lower than the other. I practice single shot and double taps to each piece. This has helped me work on my quick aim and accuracy for "A" hits.

Once you get used the 1/2 sheet pieces, then do 1/4 sheet next - and now you will get used to head shots "A" hits.

Have fun!
 
I meant "El" and "ton."

don't know where I go the "ge."

I've been studying too much.
 
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