Please critique my bug-out/bug-in system.

What would I use the camping saw for?

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Sorry I'm late getting back on this.

I got convinced of the use of this horseback riding. You would be amazed how effectively even a 2" diameter tree can block forward progress on even a horse, much less a larger conveyance, if it's at just the right height and wedged just the right way between other trees, and if the path/trail/road is on a hill or mountainside (BTDT). You could bull through it with a vehicle, but it will do either really expensive damage, or if really unlucky, disable the vehicle. This kind of stuff is common in natural disasters with high winds. Even if you are in flatlands like Fla., the non-pavement may be clear, but too soft to allow your vehicle to pass (especially in a natural disaster).

Collapsible "Wyoming Saws" take up little more space than a large hunting knife and can knock out an 8" diameter tree. Really useful. I keep one of those in the saddle bags and then also a Remington camp saw next to the Coleman stove to throw in the vehicle in severe weather/emergencies.

one thing that i haven't seen is a gun cleaning kit.

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I don't see that as all as a necessity. I can get a few hundred rounds out of even my least reliable gun before it needs a cleaning to ensure function. If it's a handgun, I can McGiver a cleaning kit out of a few pieces of cloth and some toothpaste. By the time I've had to expend a few hundred rounds in anger, I really hope to be behind "friendly lines," so to speak.

I don't see that as all as a necessity. I can get a few hundred rounds out of even my least reliable gun before it needs a cleaning to ensure function.

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What if there was a large flash flood and you found your firearm waterlogged and full of mud?

MrCleanOK said:

I remember cars backing up for blocks at the pumps after 9/11, and have seen similar situations (though not quite as bad) many times around tornados and ice storms. I hope you're at the front of the line

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living in south fl we have had 10+ hurricanes in the last 5 yrs (Katrina hit us 1st) Wilma left us with out power for 18 days ... i planed on a few days with no power ( had 10 gals of gas + a small gen.) the problem was the gas stations had no power ether and could not pump the gas out of their tanks the few that had gens ran out real fast and the sheep were fighting and all most ready to kill each other (this was 18 total days with no power) i was riding my atv around to scout out some gas and had to draw my pistol on a few winners while waiting in line to get gas (they wanted my atv) so my point is your gas stations prolly don't have gens (law here now) and 10gals of gas is nothing!!! so plan accordingly...

TonyDedo said:

Remember, I'm in the middle of the city. If I bug out, I'll be taking refuge in a hotel room or high school gym, not the middle of the woods.

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This seems like a mistake to me. Even if you're just planning for a local disaster or long term power outage, what makes you think that the Motel 6 across town or the local high school is going to be in any better shape than your own home? Most urban areas are five meals away from total disaster - meaning that within 48 hours all available resources will be depleted by the population density through consumption and illogical hoarding. Metropolises rely on a constant, daily influx of products - by truck, train and plane (and sometimes boat). When that influx stops, desperation sets in fast.

Matches, matches and more matches. As far as I'm concerned, any bug-out bag should be built around water, shelter, fire and food - in that order. You have no method of water purification (short of boiling, and you'll run out of stove fuel fast if you do that). Ditch one of the water bladders and invest in a quality backpacking filter.

Keep the crank radio but lose the police scanner. In a disaster situation, you'll get far more useful information off the weather bands than the police channels. In a public emergency you'll learn more from AM radio.

You've got a lot of gadgets. Cell phones, MP3 player, USB hard drive...
If the power's out for a week, how are you going to charge this stuff? It becomes dead weight fast. Wouldn't it be better to back up your data now and keep it stored in a remote location? Check out services like MozyPro and give yourself one less fragile electronic paperweight to worry around when the worst case happens.

My main critique here would be that you're planning for a disaster but assuming that relief and rescue will be right around the corner. Emergency services were stretched to the limit after Katrina - imagine what would happen if a hurricane hit the entire east coast with the same force. You might be on your own for weeks or even months. No, you probably won't be, but you might, and isn't all of this planning supposed to be insurance against what might happen?

There might be a refugee camp set up somewhere (at a hotel or high school gym, for example), but experience has shown that the relief camps are the worst places to be if you've got any other option. Assume that everything valuable that you're carrying will disappear if you seek refuge in an easily accessible, publicly announced location or camp. Cell phone, gone. MP3 player, gone. Firearm, gone. Cash, gone. You have to sleep sometime, and being prepared also makes you a prime target for those who didn't plan.

Don't stick around in an urban environment. Plan on spending at least two weeks in as sparsely-populated area as you can find. Disasters bring out the best and the worst in people and since you have no way of knowing who's on their best and who's on their worst, you have to assume everyone you meet is in a bad frame of mind. That being said, any emergency plan that relies on the decency of strangers isn't the best kind of plan. You seem to be aware of this, since you're including a firearm and a lot of ammunition (way too much, in my opinion).


Add matches, a lighter, a few emergency candles, a water filter and toilet paper.

o cash in small bills
o Roll of quarters

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Cash is light and can be used to start fires but what are the quarters for?

Your in the city, which sucks. I live about 45 minutes Nord of Boston.

I would definitely keep a small bottle of bleach on you. A small amount can be used to disinfect a lot of water. In Boston, clean water's coming in from the Quabin, so when if/when it stops flowing you're on your own to desalinate or distill your own water.

I would also keep a couple gallons, quarts of used motor oil around. You never know when you'll need to make fire bombs or light something on fire.

Couple needles and kevlar thread.

Matches, lighters, matches, and more matches. Whenever I go camping or whatever I'll bring several ligthers and matches. Double bagged matches, 2-3 different bags in different parts of your pack. They are small but your life depends on fire. I would even go as far to buy some flint stones (whatever you want to call them) from the army/navy.


Don't worry about driving. Major highways will be backed up and people will begin to abandon their cars on the roads. When you finally leave your home I suggest punching some holes in the gas tank and removing the tires so nobody really takes it. If it's a situation where you won't be coming back, just burn it.

You're basically screwed in the city. I would say, that if you don't get out in the first 12 hours sit tight until the majority of people are gone. You may be dealing with roaming gangs or criminals, but that's probably better than a couple thousand panicky idiots.

I'm glad I found this topic, because I'm going back thru all my contingency stashes now.

One thing to keep in mind, is that a BOB can be useful in times other than "crisis", however that's defined. I travel a lot by air. There have been times when, due to family emergency, I've had to fly back to a city other than my origination point. Rather than try to 'splain to the wife what stuff to pack and meet me with, I just tell her to grab my Apocolypse bag and meet me at the new destination. I likely won't need everything in the bag, but weight is no object for my approach, and it's pretty much a sure thing that anything I need will be in the bag.

As for specific suggestions, I'd put a coupla pair of blue nytril (sp?) gloves in the first bag. A glow-stick/chemlight or to. I bought into the new TomTom/Nuvi GPS road guides, so my old Garmin E-trex is in the bag. I have a few disposable rain ponchos, not much heavier than Saran-wrap, along with the obligitory mylar "space blanket". Some hot-hands chemical handwarmers.

I got a gentle reality-check when I was weathered out of the destination airport. I was diverted to another small city ~ 150mi distant, with only the stuff I "knew" I'd need on this trip, one that I'd made scores of times before. There I was, somewhat disoriented, long overdue for a meal, no knowledge of the road in front of me, rent-a-car map, and a cellphone that was almost out of battery, late at night, on a Sunday.

Not every deployment of a contingency kit is caused by TEOTWAWKI.

gun cleaning kit? oil and a bore snake at minimum.

Have been at this a bit and have refined our preps into three distinct but interlocking levels.
First out is the BOB of course and it is set for three days.
Second are the three week kits which are mainly web gear and backpacks that we keep loaded.
Third are large Aluminum shipping containers that contain virtual kitchens/etc. We have tarps big enough to make houses complete with floors.
Also we keep several plastic flip top containers so we can "sweep" our pantries/etc. No need to leave goodies behind IF and big IF we decide to bug out. Not planning on going anywhere but one can never tell what is on the horizon. We have gatherings in April/Oct. and cover lots of subjects like these plus put in lots of range time. If within "striking distance" of NC/SC let me know and will get you some links to past events.

gun cleaning kit? oil and a bore snake at minimum.

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Regardless of what it is some firearm maintenance is required imo.

I think that the whole idea of the Bug out Bag has been somewhat warped. These turn into expeditionary packs instead of small light bags with necessities so that you can grab it in an I AM ABOUT TO DIE event and be better off than most.

Bryan, Texas - a plant caught fire, evacuations were ordered. Get out ASAP or risk death. In that circumstance, a light bag with CD copies of your important papers, ID, Cash, some food and water, matches, flash light, weapons, ammo, first aid kit is about all you need. Sure, things like can openers and eating utensils should be in there, but the world wasn't ending, it would if you stayed though.

I think for those of us that live in the suburbs you need a work pack IN CASE you have to evac out of the zone to your house or other location on foot. Everything else should be stored in crates and cupboards, as few places as possible so that you can load in 30 min to 1 hour and get out. Other than that, the BOB at home and car kits should be skimpy (not so skimpy for the car) kits that allow you to move quickly. Better to use the car kit to augment your home BOB and the crates to augment both that way depending on the emergency that is in front of you, you know how to proceed and the time horizon available...

That being said, I like your pack and agree with the modalities you laid out 100%. I didn't see anything there that was OBVIOUS from my end anyway.

Good luck

I think that the whole idea of the Bug out Bag has been somewhat warped. These turn into expeditionary packs instead of small light bags with necessities so that you can grab it in an I AM ABOUT TO DIE event and be better off than most.

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Traditionally the BOB is supposed to get you through 72 hours. Last year up here, we had a bad ice storm that knocked out power across two states. Some people had the power on by the end of the day, others were left in the dark (in the middle of winter) for more than a week. This was "only" a power outage and hardly rates as a natural disaster yet many people were without heat or water for more than 7 days - to the point where temporary relief camps and shelters were set up. The National Guard was even activated.

Personally, I'm much more comfortable packing my bag around the idea of sustained survival rather than "just enough to get me by", because you cannot predict when a disaster is going to be over or how quickly an aid response will reach you.

I do agree that packing a 100 lb. expedition pack and hauling a shopping cart of still more gear is excessive, but a practiced camper/backpacker can very easily plan for a week-long excursion in a modest 3200 cu. in. pack. I take 3 litres of water and a filtration pump; it's far lighter than lugging gallons around with me and lasts longer in the end because I can safely replenish my supply on the go. Every puddle, stream or pond becomes potable.
Similarly I don't bring 3 days worth of solid MREs with me. I have a half dozen meal replacement bars, two freeze-dried backpacker meals and have the knowledge and experience to make up the rest with pine nettle tea and eating birch bark.

I think as the BOB concept expands and warps, it seems to be because people want their survival experience to be comfortable and easy. It's not going to be, but it can be comfortable and easy on your shoulders if you lighten the load.

Fire starting kit..(Could be as simple as cotton balls rolled in Vaseline, small container of Diesel and some WP matches)...Water purification..(Bleach can do this) but I think for the Bang Katadyn makes good stuff...Another note.. A space blanket or Bivi Bag made out of the same material..I chose Thermo-Lite 2 Bivvy.. To keep you warm ..It is worth its weight in gold..

The heavier the backpack, the more expensive it needs to be. Expensive backpacks feel light. Cheap ones will dig into your muscles.

My friend had me try his REI framed hiking backpack. A world of difference to my tactical backpack duffle bag with wheels. The REI was far more comfortable. I couldn't walk more than 50 feet in my duffle bag.

As for the Fuel why not try moonshine, or Everclear. Good to burn, drink or clean that old carbon out of the car.

throw a few rolls of duct tape in there, just a thought and gun cleaning is a must.

yosemite sam said:

* Question: How do you keep water from freezing in your trunk in the winter? Sounds silly, but that's what happened to me.

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Try insulation of some type... Obviously the type of insulation will vary greatly depending on the amount of water you are trying to insulate, and how it is originally stored.

Please understand though, if the weather is cold enough for long enough, the water is eventually going to freeze if it doesn't have something to warm it up. Thus, for winter use, I'd recommend a camping stove that is capable of melting snow/ice for water (MSR XGK II is one of the best... it is a mountaineering stove, and it is expensive. But, I've melted snow with it when the temperature was -25F, and the winds were in excess of 50 knots).

If you are only looking to store a small amount of water, you might try a vacuum bottle... They'll keep things hot or cold for a very long time, even in the worst of conditions.

forgive me if anyone mentioned this already, but I didn't notice a portable/backpacking water filter unit, and I think that'd be really good to have in your car kit, and one in your bug out bag (I'd use water purification tablets as back up).

Here are some reviews of various units:
http://www.thebackpacker.com/gear/water_filters/

You're a whole lot more prepared than I. A lot of food for thought . I won't presume to improve on your excellent level of preparation.

Telephone book for whatever area you are heading to.

No need to use the camping gear if you can call ahead and make a reservation at a motel.

No need to use the camping gear if you can call ahead and make a reservation at a motel.

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This works if a tree falls down on your house and makes it unlivable inside because of rain or winter cold. This does not work when 8 million other people are also trying to make reservations at motels and are clogging the highways trying to get there.

I have not read all the responses, so, if I am repeating something somebody else said, I apologize, and if I am 180 out from what somebody else said, that is OK, too....

I would replace the shotgun in the car kit with the handgun. I'd have a really good "blind the bad-guys eyeballs out" tactical flashlight in the day bag, with one extra set of batteries, and then another light with spare "bulb" plus several extra sets of batteries in the car kit. At home, I would have one of those hand-crank radios as well as two or three of those hand-crank flashlights with spare bulbs.

Other than those notes, I think you have done one helluva good job thinking about it and how you want to handle any adverse situations. Everybody is different, with different considerations and different environments. What works for you in your area might not work for somebody else somewhere else.

The fact that you are thinking about it, and taking stock of what you might want is 98% towards your not just doing well, but actually thriving in a bad situation.

Well done, Compadre!!

Interesting thread with lots of well reasoned ideas.

What about a predetermined destination, place A,B, or C.? My very rural farm is Bug out destination for my entire family. Food on the hoof and a large larder of home canned goods. 480 ft deep well and ample solar and wind power. Not to mention plenty of that shiney brass colored stuff.

Not everyone has access to property bbut having a destination(s) in mind will allow you to more precisely determine your list of supplies.

Sommerled

One thing I dont think I saw anyone mention, space blankets. They are very light weight and small, can be used to keep warm, form a rain shelter while collecting the water and a ton of other things. A rain poncho might be good to throw in as well.

The camp saw is a useful thing to have, you can take down medium to small sized trees down easily with less stress to your body than the hatchet in your car.

OK - good info - but what are these kits "stored" in... does anyone have pics?