A Carjacking in Detroit- A true story. Read, comment, and contribute

Good Lord, if I read one more post about he shouldn't have been in Detroit at 9 pm getting groceries again, I'm going to flip. :banghead:

HE WAS BUYING GROCERIES for pete sakes. He lives in Detroit. Would you rather he drive 30 minutes to buy them somewhere else? Judas Priest.

Not everyone is blessed to live in a perfect little small town where every person knows your name and nobody needs to lock their doors.

Yes, he could have been more prepared and alert, but sometimes that doesn't even matter. There are plenty of examples of people just minding their own business and they simply happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes, it happens even in "SAFE" places, if you can imagine that. The only thing you can count on is some "well armed, super informed, deadly lethal, highly judicious, know it all on all subjects related to guns, High Road Jedi" will make sure everyone knows the guy involved was an idiot for even putting himself in that position in the first place.

I say the guy is lucky he didn't get killed. He did the right thing complying and begging/hoping that nothing more was done to him. He wasn't armed, he wasn't prepared, and the only thing that he could have done different was be more aware and more prepared. I.e. - know what is around you, be armed so that you can do something about it if needed.

Even if you had your car armed to a T, what would it have mattered. I'm all for common sense, and given that I have had a situation that was similar, (parking lot of a grocery store, 9:45 pm, 2 minority males, approach me and request I buy something from them, after learning I am not interested, proceed to hastle me and try to verbally intimidate and threaten), I would say being forceful, prepared, and alert is your best defense to most threats.

But EVERY SINGLE SITUATION IS DIFFERENT, and until you are there, who knows what will happen, who will be involved, where it will go down, and what the potential risks and consequences are. So do your best to be alert and prepared.

What he should have done and what he should have been watching and why he shouldn’t have been there at that time is now irrelevant to the then and there.

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Will Rogers said, "There are three kinds of people. There are those who can learn from books, there are those who can learn from others and there are those who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."

People who don't analyze situations like this, and figure out what he should have done -- so as not to make the same mistake themselves -- are a fourth category, those who pee on the electric fence over and over.

Looks like nothing has changed in the Motor City since I worked there in '86.

Detroit is a classic example of everything that's gone in the U.S.A.

You friend should count himself lucky to be alive and get out while the gettin' is still good.

I'd get down. A shotgun is hard to dodge. Stuff happens.

I had eight young men come after me once. I got in called the cops and waited patiently with my gun. One went to swing at my window and it almost cost him his life if the police hadnt shown up at that very moment. What amazed me was the cops wanted to let them go! I said nope I wanted them all charged for denting and breaking the headlights n windows on my jeep. Then he noticed my sidearm and decided I might be worth listening to, go figure. The officer asked what kept me from killing them I said about 2 sconds

Gee, how did the thriving, vibrant cities our ancestors built turn into such hellholes in the first place?

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A study of the history of weaponry will change your outlook on that. Even our "dangerous" cities are pretty good compared to those of times gone by. You used to have to strap on a sword, carry a "gentleman's gun" or whatnot because brigands and highwaymen were all over the place. Police, as such, didn't really exist in a standard way across much of the known world, and they were often as dangerous as the criminals. This is all very general, but it's a fact that carrying a weapon of some sort was as normal as putting on your shoes.

Those of us who arm ourselves today are - in most cases - just taking out an insurance policy.

Correct tactical move upon first impression that something was "hinky..." would have been what someone mentioned above: get directly into the car, groceries thrown on the seat, lock the doors, hit the gas.

Barring that, your friend did the right thing. How do I know that? Because he's alive.

The correct solution is the one that lets you leave the scene still breathing.

-Mark

hso, et al:

Correct! I call it live to fight the right fight, on another day. (In court when they are caught). He fought that fight the right way. Let them have the car; it's only steel, plastic and glass. Hades on high...it's insured.

My friend who shot the three perps in Detroit, believed they would kill him regardless of what he did. He drives a car worth about $300,000.00, and they wanted it! He felt he had no choice: die or die fighting. Understand, that not for one second did he believe that he was going to survive the encounter. His intent was to assure that he "...marked each perp for the police". That is what he and I were taught in Advanced Tactical Shooting, for those eventuality that we believed that there was no option other than to die fighting. What an ugly thought! I am in no way, shape or form thumping my chest here. As I have recently posted, in the bank robbery that I was victim/witness 2.5 years ago, I let the "gentleman" take the money and run. Chest-thumper I ain't.

Geno

DS:

The police took about 45 minutes to arrive to my Detroit hit-and-run. I was carrying my G26. When the officer arrived, he was not in the very least concerned that I had my pistol on my ankle. He was a fantastic officer. I must say, Detroit really does have some excellent police!!! Some may be bad, but I have had many Detroit officer as graduate students, and they are top notch!

Geno

Good Lord, if I read one more post about he shouldn't have been in Detroit at 9 pm getting groceries again, I'm going to flip.

HE WAS BUYING GROCERIES for pete sakes. He lives in Detroit. Would you rather he drive 30 minutes to buy them somewhere else? Judas Priest.

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Do you know anything about Detroit? Note how many replies are from people in Michigan. I don't go into Detroit even if I can be armed. It's not worth it. Very few US cities compare, and several of the ones that do are also in Michigan (Flint, Saginaw, Pontiac). (Others: East St. Louis, Camden, Baltimore?)

I mean, would you want to be a tourist in Mogadishu? Sail your little cabin cruiser off the Somali coast?

Anyway, I havent heard your guys responses on your car guns? Anyone keep any in the trunk, front seat etc? Im really starting to thinking of carrying more than one gun. Im not looking for a fight at all, and would evade one at all costs, but if push comes to shove there's no point keeping them at home

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You can't carry anything useful (loaded and/or in the passenger compartment) unless you have a CPL.

If you have a CPL, I would still worry about the gun being stolen or even used against you in a Detroit type environment.

I would be more inclined to carry two guns on my person, or one and just be really sure I could draw it quickly in all situations. I would also try to do things with a buddy who was also armed.

Do you know anything about Detroit? Note how many replies are from people in Michigan. I don't go into Detroit even if I can be armed. It's not worth it. Very few US cities compare, and several of the ones that do are also in Michigan (Flint, Saginaw, Pontiac). (Others: East St. Louis, Camden, Baltimore?)

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Yes I do know some things about Detroit, but I have never lived there. Only visited for business several years ago, which hardly qualifies me for an expert. If it is really as bad as you say comparing it to Somali, then what you are saying is it is completely lawless. If that is the case, society has broken down and getting groceries probably isn't the highest priority, survival is.

I don't take issue with the conditions of Detroit, I take issue with all the Monday Morning Quarterbacking from the Uber-elite here on THR that would never, ever, get caught in a situation where there could be a threat. Plus if Detroit is really that bad, then shouldn't you have a sidearm ready to go at all times in all places, based off your description of how things currently are? (that is if you have to live there)

As to the original question, I'll reiterate, I don't think a gun in the car would have done you any good at all. Using a gun requires access, availability, and proficiency. The smart thing to do would be to be alert of your surroundings, be armed with a gun that is ready to go (fully loaded and minimal actions to unsafe and fire the weapon), and then proficiency with the firearm so you could defend your or your families life. In this case it is fairly clear your friend wasn't in any position to do any of those 3 things and thankfully he came out alive. If you noticed a threat, identified it and put eyes on them and they still proceeded to come at you, that is when you make the decision to pull your firearm and use it. If they are smart they go find easier lower hanging fruit, if not be ready to fire and make it count.

Too many variables to get into anything specific in my opinion, as every encounter is going to be different.

The best thing your friend can do is move to a safer area. Its a big country, why live in a hell hole?


In my area I can run into such a store and leave the car running without having to worry if its going to be their when I come out.

I don't take issue with the conditions of Detroit, I take issue with all the Monday Morning Quarterbacking from the Uber-elite here on THR that would never, ever, get caught in a situation where there could be a threat.

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I haven't read anything that I would consider "uber-elite" in this post. Most of the replies stem around better situational awareness, which applies anywhere.

Its a big country, why live in a hell hole?

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Truer words can not be spoken.

You can't out draw a gun that's already pointed at you. I would have dropped the keys, phone, wallet. What else can you do? Die for those material things? Not me.

The Tennessean said:

You can't out draw a gun that's already pointed at you. I would have dropped the keys, phone, wallet. What else can you do? Die for those material things? Not me.

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AMEN!

If you can beat 1.5 seconds from holster to shot on target, you're better than most cops, not just most permit holders.

Guess how long it takes Chuckles to put buckshot through your spine? A lot less than 1.5 seconds.

-Mark

i think the guy should have kept the robbers in front of him. what ever side of the car the guys were on he should have went to the opposite side and placed his groceries in through the other door while keeping his attention focused on the threat.

i live in a small town and the crime rate there is actually growing due to the amount of enemployment. i have been stepping up my situational awareness due to this fact. i get off work at midinight and do most of my shopping, errands after work. if at all possible i don't let anybody get very close. i scan the parking lot while i walk through and don't put anything in my trunk so as not to have my vision obstructed or be bent over.

When I was learning to be a mechanic the guy showing me the ropes once said to me that the most important thing he could ever tell me was to be aware of my suroundings, or be aware of what was going on around me at all times. He said it in the work invironment, but it applies to running arrends and the rest of daily life also.

As far as Detriot goes. I remember seeing this thing about the seven deadly sins and what parts of america each sin was prevelant in. Like the northeast was greed. Lust or sex would be the west coast. Or maybe that was the northwest? And the north central area, like Michigan/ Illinios was murder.

I think he did the right thing by letting these things go. After all its only stuff. and theres a chance he'll get it back. A friend told me a story about his dad who was a whatever degree black belt, he taught karate. Was taking the elevator up in a casino in Reno. A man gets into the elevator with him and pulls out a gun and demands his car keys and wallet. He gives him the keys and wallet. So the criminal runs out and drives away whith his new red Ford mustang. Luckily there were alot af cameras that caught it all going down. He called the police and they had the criminal in custody within about 15 mins time.

situational awareness has got to be one of, if not the most contributing factor according to the story. Glad this guy lived to see another day.

They'll kill you for your shoes in Detroit. I know of one time, who knows how many other shootings have happened in similar ways. When possible, get out of the city, it's really the only option..I don't see crime improving in any meaningful way for a long time, even as the city becomes a ghost town. And anywhere in Michigan, I'd still be sure to carry. And don't move to Benton Harbor, they're about due for a riot, methinks.

Im still going to ccw, but it's situations like these that have got me thinking. Most people that carry aren't in Compton or Detroit etc. It seems like the thugs here are a different breed of criminal if you will- harder, more hateful, callous, and doesnt care if you live or die let alone if he does. Am I over-thinking this? Has this gone through anyone else's mind? Is this just an excuse? Id like to know your opinions.

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This reminds me of some arguments I have had with anti-gun morons that accuse me of being paranoid or a Rambo wannabe. They always ask, why I feel the need to carry a gun, do I think I'm going to be attacked all the time or at some place in particular? To which I reply, "if I thought I would need a gun because of the place I was going, I wouldn't bother going there".

This is a tough question. If Detroit is literally a place that is basically lawless at this point and it is survival of the fittest, then moving would make sense. It doesn't sound like you are in a position where this is possible at the moment, so if it were me, I would go to plan B.

Plan B: I would change my perspective, preparation, and plan. What I mean by that is I would first change my mental approach to how I lived and I would basically become much more careful in my patterns, trips, errands, public outings, etc... Also I would automatically become more aware and wary of any and all subjects surrounding me at most times, especially in more vulnerable times and places. Finally I would reconcile in my heart and mind the challenge of actually pulling my gun and using it for defense. What I mean by that, is preparing so that I had no issue, hesitation, or problem pulling my weapon and using it in a lethal manner if faced with a lethal situation.

Keeping in mind every situation is different. I think many and hopefully all CCW permit holders actually do a good bit of this already, but you never know.

I don't think your overthinking it at all, in fact that is the most important thing you can do at this point, think about it, decide on a course of action, and then follow through with it. You can't prepare for everything, but you can sure prepare for a lot. 99% comes down to what is going on between your ears, and it will allow you to survive versus not.

JMHO.