A used Glock would work great, as would a CZ.
Please Recommend a First-Time Defensive Pistol
- Thread starter SR9
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slabuda
Member
If you dont want it fo rcarry and only fo rthe house a shotgun isnt bad. You can get a used mossberg 500 20 gauge for under 200. Heck I got a field model for 210 from walmart.
A 20ga with buck shot is all you need. But dont belive the hype all you need to do is point it in the general direction as in most home all the shot will open up to is about 4-6 inches. They still need to be aimed just not as precisely.
A 20ga with buck shot is all you need. But dont belive the hype all you need to do is point it in the general direction as in most home all the shot will open up to is about 4-6 inches. They still need to be aimed just not as precisely.
SR9
Member
i would also love to come upon a mini 14 for a reasonable price...any suggestions?
I'm going to just inject my 2 cents worth in that I would not be close minded regarding a revolver for your needs. There are some police trade ins still coming onto the market that give one a chance to buy a quality & brand name side arm for under $300 .
If your concerned about a local shop charging to much, then do some research on the interent. Look at what is availabel on Gunbroker and other places to compare prices with. Look into a local dealer who will receive a gun for you ,and what their fee is. This will give you the option of buying on line , but don't forget to pay attention to the shipping and FFL transfer costs when doing it that way.
Another source is the forums for sale section whewre private folk sell off a firearm they no longer need or want. They have to also go through an FFL , but sometimes the price is worth it.
If your concerned about a local shop charging to much, then do some research on the interent. Look at what is availabel on Gunbroker and other places to compare prices with. Look into a local dealer who will receive a gun for you ,and what their fee is. This will give you the option of buying on line , but don't forget to pay attention to the shipping and FFL transfer costs when doing it that way.
Another source is the forums for sale section whewre private folk sell off a firearm they no longer need or want. They have to also go through an FFL , but sometimes the price is worth it.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
It's not gun snobbery to dissuade someone from purchasing a defensive firearm from a company who's products have a reputation for being unreliable, inaccurate, and made of components that are not built to last. Poorly built guns will ingrain poor shooting habits. It's much better to start off with something from a quality manufacturer that costs a bit more than to try to learn to shoot with, and rely on, a firearm that isn't worth the zinc alloy it's made of. In the long run, saving up money to buy a decent pistol from the start saves you more money anyway, as you'd only end up dumping the cheap gun for something of better build.
$200 is at the extreme low budgetary limit for a centerfire gun of reasonable quality, and if that's all that is available, then one has to make purchase choices very carefully. You'd probably be looking at used S&W revolvers, surplus Makarovs, or possibly a Kel-Tec.
On the other hand, if you can save up another $100, more options open up. At the $400-$600 range, you're at the prime price-point to pick up a used gun made by a reputable maker such as Sig, Glock, S&W, CZ, etc.
Also realize that you will need to budget for other accessories to go with your gun. In order of importance, this will include hearing protection, eye protection, cleaning supplies, ammo, spare magazines, holster and magazine carriers (if you intend to get your CCW.)
SR9
Member
a revolver would be fine as well
SR9
Member
i can carry a concealed or unconcealed weapon in Vermont without a permit..
HighStrung
Member
I know there's some bad press about them, but consider a used S&W sigma. Easy to operate, clean, etc and used prices are rock bottom. The newer models (ve's) aren't near as bad as the one's that much of the bad press comes from. I've got one and though it's not my favorite, it's always done what I've asked of it, goes bang everytime I pull the trigger and has been plenty accurate. Glock turn in's would be another great alternative. SR9, you mentioned that you have a relative in law enforcement. Even if he/she can't get you a deal on a turn in, you should take them with you when you go shopping. Possibility of getting a better deal with them there, plus it's someone who knows a good deal more than you may about the subject. *Please note, I was not saying that you weren't well informed about this subject, just the fact that people who live and breath firearms tend to be better informed*
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Even though a permit is not required in Vermont, you should still consider taking a basic pistol course from a certified NRA instructor. What you will learn will help you to build a solid foundation on which to build your skills.
SR9
Member
im not trying to be rude or anything im asking an honest question..Ive hunted my whole life so im not new to guns by any means..would the pistol course be still helpful? I know how to hold them...aiming what else would a teacher show me?
slabuda
Member
I havent had a pistol course before but my father let me shoot with him during a qual or two when he was a cop. I learned a bit there.
As far as basic gun safety/marksmanship maybe not much.
But they may help you out with pistol tactics etc depending upon the course, just as a good huntng mentor could teach you to follow through with a shotgun etc...
As far as basic gun safety/marksmanship maybe not much.
But they may help you out with pistol tactics etc depending upon the course, just as a good huntng mentor could teach you to follow through with a shotgun etc...
Hunting with a rifle and defensive hand gun use are totally different worlds. If you are comfortable with the basics maybe look into a defensive hand gun course.
mljdeckard
Member
Not only would the pistol course be helpful, you need to commit yourself to continuing training pretty much forever. Look up Massad F. Ayoob. If he takes a week off of every year to train, you need to train too. There is no such thing as a soldier who is too good for training.
seriously SR9 and absolutly no offense meant here at all but even a louiville slugger is no match for a firearm toting baddy
when you in a home defense situation you are the "RE"actor and reaction is ALWAYS slower than action
im not trying to bash your size or skills but NEVER underestimate anyone i knew of a 98lb woman that cut an officers chin with a box cutter in half a second because the officer didnt take her seriously she almost got his throat
as for handguns for defense in the 200 range you could get used charter arms revolvers around that range also a few used glocks turn up every now and again (not often but they do) on gunbroker and a few other places
if it were me i would try to save a little more money for something like a used rock island 1911 (around 300-350 used sometimes less) or something of that nature
YES take a pistol course handgunning is an entirely different world than rifle hunting
i know many guys that claimed they were king of the hill shooters because they were hunters and the second they had a pistol couldnt hit a barn from the inside
if your serious about HD then you need to find a range and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
learn not only how to shoot your firearm but every aspect of it to the best of your ability
shoot it clean it maintain it to the best of your ability memorize not only mentaly but physicaly (muscle memory) every aspect and function of the firearm you choose loading unloading charging slide release (opening the cylinder on revolvers) make it all second nature
that may sound a bit overboard but seriously in the time of need (may it never come) you will not have the stable environment and time to think about what need to be done you just need your body to "do it" kind of like swirving away from a car accident you dont think about it you just do it
i hope any of this has been a help and again i dont want to discredit your abilities as they stand but Bill Jordan was right there are no second place winners and IMHO there is no limit to our skills as shooters the only cap is how little we train because we can always be better than we were yesterday
when you in a home defense situation you are the "RE"actor and reaction is ALWAYS slower than action
im not trying to bash your size or skills but NEVER underestimate anyone i knew of a 98lb woman that cut an officers chin with a box cutter in half a second because the officer didnt take her seriously she almost got his throat
as for handguns for defense in the 200 range you could get used charter arms revolvers around that range also a few used glocks turn up every now and again (not often but they do) on gunbroker and a few other places
if it were me i would try to save a little more money for something like a used rock island 1911 (around 300-350 used sometimes less) or something of that nature
YES take a pistol course handgunning is an entirely different world than rifle hunting
i know many guys that claimed they were king of the hill shooters because they were hunters and the second they had a pistol couldnt hit a barn from the inside
if your serious about HD then you need to find a range and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
learn not only how to shoot your firearm but every aspect of it to the best of your ability
shoot it clean it maintain it to the best of your ability memorize not only mentaly but physicaly (muscle memory) every aspect and function of the firearm you choose loading unloading charging slide release (opening the cylinder on revolvers) make it all second nature
that may sound a bit overboard but seriously in the time of need (may it never come) you will not have the stable environment and time to think about what need to be done you just need your body to "do it" kind of like swirving away from a car accident you dont think about it you just do it
i hope any of this has been a help and again i dont want to discredit your abilities as they stand but Bill Jordan was right there are no second place winners and IMHO there is no limit to our skills as shooters the only cap is how little we train because we can always be better than we were yesterday
$200 will be next to impossible to find a reliable pistol. Sorry man, but even if you were lucky enough to find one, you also have to factor in the costs of ammo, a holster, and a safe place to keep it out of your daughter's reach.
Save up a bit more before you take the dive.
Save up a bit more before you take the dive.
I don't recommend a semi auto (at any price) for someone that is not going to shoot it a lot. Operating a semi auto is not rocket science but if you are on a budget and only buying a $200 gun then it's not likely that you will shoot it enough to really get familiar with the gun or even break it in. Sooner or later all semi autos will jam if you shoot them enough. You need to put about 300 rnds (Kimber says 600) through most of them before they are considered broken in. Some are picky about magazines. Others are ammo picky. How many rnds of ________ hollowpoints are you going to shoot through your new gun to be sure that it is reliable with this brand? Are you going to shoot it enough that the operation becomes second nature when things go bump in the night and your heart is pumping? How about your wife? Is she going to put in the time?
Generally when you hear about somebody accidently shooting themselves it's because they don't know what they are doing with a semi auto.
You are obviously smart enough to research your purchase so you are on the right track but do you have the time and money to really master a semi auto? Does the wife? Again, it's not rocket science but we all read stories about cops shooting themselves with their own guns and I remember case after case of accidental discharges in the Marines when we were switching over from the Colt's to the Beretta's. This was due to lack of training.
You cannot go wrong with a revolver. Pick it up, squeeze the trigger and it goes bang. Speedloaders are cheap and fast. The only reliability issue I can remember seeing about revolvers is a very small number have the cylinder fail to rotate when they get dirty. This is an easy fix.
But back to semi autos. Some mentioned CZ and Bersa. I would second their opinions. Kel Tec seems pretty reasonable and a quality brand as well. Perhaps some owners can give you an opinion on Makarovs. I see them at the shows for a reasonable price.
By the way, there seems to be a shortage of .380 ammo out there. Should you buy a gun in that caliber expect to pay more for target shooting and breaking it in. It might be worth it to look at 9mm. As it's going to be a concealed carry gun (small, lightweight) and you're a new shooter you may not want to get a larger caliber than 9mm.
Good luck to you and let us know how it works out.
Generally when you hear about somebody accidently shooting themselves it's because they don't know what they are doing with a semi auto.
You are obviously smart enough to research your purchase so you are on the right track but do you have the time and money to really master a semi auto? Does the wife? Again, it's not rocket science but we all read stories about cops shooting themselves with their own guns and I remember case after case of accidental discharges in the Marines when we were switching over from the Colt's to the Beretta's. This was due to lack of training.
You cannot go wrong with a revolver. Pick it up, squeeze the trigger and it goes bang. Speedloaders are cheap and fast. The only reliability issue I can remember seeing about revolvers is a very small number have the cylinder fail to rotate when they get dirty. This is an easy fix.
But back to semi autos. Some mentioned CZ and Bersa. I would second their opinions. Kel Tec seems pretty reasonable and a quality brand as well. Perhaps some owners can give you an opinion on Makarovs. I see them at the shows for a reasonable price.
By the way, there seems to be a shortage of .380 ammo out there. Should you buy a gun in that caliber expect to pay more for target shooting and breaking it in. It might be worth it to look at 9mm. As it's going to be a concealed carry gun (small, lightweight) and you're a new shooter you may not want to get a larger caliber than 9mm.
Good luck to you and let us know how it works out.
I agree with you on the Sigma. I had a .40 cal Sigma for years (sold it last year to buy new toys) and it was a decent, reliable gun. I see them at the gun stores for a little under $300 when they have S&W specials. I don't know why I didn't think about them earlier.....too early and too little coffee. I was also thinking about small, concealed carry guns too.
SR9
Member
thank you for all the opinions and recommendations its all very helpful..who cant benefit from some constructive criticizm? Ok so it seems the consensus is recommending a revolver...any suggestions?
joe_security
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Consider a revolver as a good starting point, and work your way up to an auto if you feel more firepower is an advantage.
Al LaVodka
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Find a small, relatively inexpensive, used, QUALITY name revolver. Best part is, as it is already broken in and worn, you won't care about maring it...
Al
Al
MedWheeler
Member
Guns McRae wrote:
You're right. The $800 remark is what threw me off, since there is so much leeway between that and the lowly $200 the OP offered up. Pouncing so quickly on that high a number as the least acceptable starting point for a HD/SD firearm just came across as elitist (I appreciate that you acknowledge that it was probably too high as well.)
It's not just you; I get weary of so many people here responding in similar fashion, and they trash all the "low-end" guns, such as Bersa, Taurus, Charter Arms, Kel-Tec, etc., many of which offer quite satisfactory options well south of 800 bills. I also acknowledge and appreciate your mention of the High-Point. They do it with caliber choice, too.
If you had said three or four hundred bucks was a better starting point, I would not have responded the way I did, and those amounts get many suitable options added to the list (for most of us, at least; there will always be gun snobs, even if you aren't among them.)
By the way, I don't consider "gun snobbery" to be a bad thing. I don't have contempt for any one who likes products of a "higher" grade than I do.. not with cars, clothes, guns, or anything. I can understand the appreciation. I didn't mean any offense. I apologize.
You're right. The $800 remark is what threw me off, since there is so much leeway between that and the lowly $200 the OP offered up. Pouncing so quickly on that high a number as the least acceptable starting point for a HD/SD firearm just came across as elitist (I appreciate that you acknowledge that it was probably too high as well.)
It's not just you; I get weary of so many people here responding in similar fashion, and they trash all the "low-end" guns, such as Bersa, Taurus, Charter Arms, Kel-Tec, etc., many of which offer quite satisfactory options well south of 800 bills. I also acknowledge and appreciate your mention of the High-Point. They do it with caliber choice, too.
If you had said three or four hundred bucks was a better starting point, I would not have responded the way I did, and those amounts get many suitable options added to the list (for most of us, at least; there will always be gun snobs, even if you aren't among them.)
By the way, I don't consider "gun snobbery" to be a bad thing. I don't have contempt for any one who likes products of a "higher" grade than I do.. not with cars, clothes, guns, or anything. I can understand the appreciation. I didn't mean any offense. I apologize.
Zundfolge
Member
Considering your budget, one of the police trade in S&Ws at J&G are a good place to start.
click here and click here
Of course you'll have to add a few bucks for shipping and a few more for your local dealer to transfer it to you (you can't have guns shipped across state lines to your home, you have to go through a dealer) so add $30-40 to those prices for all that.
You might hit the local pawn shops and gun shops and see if there is any local online trade ... then its just cash and carry. In that case I highly recommend you read this thread first to learn what to look for when looking at used wheel guns.
Hi SR9, and welcome to the forum!
I whole-heartedly recommend a good revolver for your SD needs. At my age, (50's) I've finally got plenty of guns, and I shot competition for years with all types. That being said, my favorite handguns are S&W revolvers. My high capacity autos, and 1911s usually stay in the safe, but my revolvers go everywhere with me.
My "always" CCW gun is a 1971 S&W Model 37 "Airweight" snubbie. It was virtually brand new and unfired so I paid a premium price for it a year ago ($400) but one with some honest wear could be had in the $200-$300 range. Also, the 4" S&W revolvers from the 80s' can be had for the $275-$350 range if you look hard.
Another suggestion . . . and really my favorite for your needs right now . . .
A Ruger .22 Automatic. Ammo prices are high today but .22LR ammo is still relatively cheap so you can practice a LOT for very little money! It can also save your life in a pinch, especially a big fella like you.
Why the .22? With very low recoil and noise, you AND your girlfriend will truly enjoy shooting the handgun. Plus, these guns are very accurate! Low noise and recoil, plus cheap and plentiful practice ammo will allow you to avoid handgun flinch, which ruins so many people from becoming a fine handgunner.
Plus, after you've shot a bunch of .22, you'll have time to be exposed to which type of centerfire handgun to choose! AND . . . the kids will have a wonderful introduction when the time is right to shooting handguns via the .22.
IMHO, everyone's first handgun should be a .22 and . . . since .22 autos are cheaper than .22 revolvers . . . they are the best way to go! A local shop offered me two new Rugers last Christmas for my two sons for $250 each.
Food for thought!
I whole-heartedly recommend a good revolver for your SD needs. At my age, (50's) I've finally got plenty of guns, and I shot competition for years with all types. That being said, my favorite handguns are S&W revolvers. My high capacity autos, and 1911s usually stay in the safe, but my revolvers go everywhere with me.
My "always" CCW gun is a 1971 S&W Model 37 "Airweight" snubbie. It was virtually brand new and unfired so I paid a premium price for it a year ago ($400) but one with some honest wear could be had in the $200-$300 range. Also, the 4" S&W revolvers from the 80s' can be had for the $275-$350 range if you look hard.
Another suggestion . . . and really my favorite for your needs right now . . .
A Ruger .22 Automatic. Ammo prices are high today but .22LR ammo is still relatively cheap so you can practice a LOT for very little money! It can also save your life in a pinch, especially a big fella like you.
Why the .22? With very low recoil and noise, you AND your girlfriend will truly enjoy shooting the handgun. Plus, these guns are very accurate! Low noise and recoil, plus cheap and plentiful practice ammo will allow you to avoid handgun flinch, which ruins so many people from becoming a fine handgunner.
Plus, after you've shot a bunch of .22, you'll have time to be exposed to which type of centerfire handgun to choose! AND . . . the kids will have a wonderful introduction when the time is right to shooting handguns via the .22.
IMHO, everyone's first handgun should be a .22 and . . . since .22 autos are cheaper than .22 revolvers . . . they are the best way to go! A local shop offered me two new Rugers last Christmas for my two sons for $250 each.
Food for thought!
jakemccoy
Member
Think it through guys: He's new to handguns.
Whatever gun you decide, add at least $300 for practice ammo, carry ammo, range fees, a lesson, hearing protection, eye protection, replacement parts, holster, cleaning supplies, etc. The lesson will actually save you money because you won't waste 200 rounds on the wrong grip and wrong form. That additional $300 is just to get you up to a minimal level of proficiency. You're betting on your luck if you don't reserve sufficient money for these things.
You'll need even more money for a small safe or other locking device. You have a kid and you'll be a new handgun owner. Handguns are not a part of the culture in your house (right?). I recommend locking the handgun whenever the handgun is not under your immediate control. I highly recommend NOT using something like a shoebox under the bed. No offense, but it seems that in all the cases involving kids shooting themselves, there are parents that went half-ass on everything.
For a first timer, I recommend a new gun if you can. That way, you'll have no question if everything is there. Unfortunately, I don't know anything new and good for under $200.
Thinking through the budget here, it's highly unrealistic to expect to get started, the right way, with only $200. That's bad advice to say you could get started, the right way, with that little amount of money. But then again, plenty of guys max out their credit cards on everything gun related, don't track their spending, and don't tell their wives what they've bought. They may be the ones who are saying you can get started for $200.
LOL...OK
In total, we're talking $700+ to get you started the right way. That's not exaggerating at all. By the way, if you're actually NOT going to carry this gun, then I recommend a shotgun for you, but that's a different thread.
Whatever gun you decide, add at least $300 for practice ammo, carry ammo, range fees, a lesson, hearing protection, eye protection, replacement parts, holster, cleaning supplies, etc. The lesson will actually save you money because you won't waste 200 rounds on the wrong grip and wrong form. That additional $300 is just to get you up to a minimal level of proficiency. You're betting on your luck if you don't reserve sufficient money for these things.
You'll need even more money for a small safe or other locking device. You have a kid and you'll be a new handgun owner. Handguns are not a part of the culture in your house (right?). I recommend locking the handgun whenever the handgun is not under your immediate control. I highly recommend NOT using something like a shoebox under the bed. No offense, but it seems that in all the cases involving kids shooting themselves, there are parents that went half-ass on everything.
For a first timer, I recommend a new gun if you can. That way, you'll have no question if everything is there. Unfortunately, I don't know anything new and good for under $200.
Thinking through the budget here, it's highly unrealistic to expect to get started, the right way, with only $200. That's bad advice to say you could get started, the right way, with that little amount of money. But then again, plenty of guys max out their credit cards on everything gun related, don't track their spending, and don't tell their wives what they've bought. They may be the ones who are saying you can get started for $200.
LOL...OK
In total, we're talking $700+ to get you started the right way. That's not exaggerating at all. By the way, if you're actually NOT going to carry this gun, then I recommend a shotgun for you, but that's a different thread.
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EMT40SW
Member
You can get any new 9mm or .40 Glolck for $399 by joining Glock Shooting Sport Foundation for $30. Great way to get a Glock at cost!!!
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