Lancaster AK-74 issue
- Thread starter Babarsac
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Well, just an update; blaine helped me get a replacement rifle from lancaster - blaine has been an amazingly good guy to deal with - but unfortunately lancaster didn't do their part; the replacement has the same problem, as evidenced by this new video of my replacement rifle after 500-800 rounds...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fL2izajYoM
I've really lost faith in lancaster, as it turns out the issue is a known problem with a batch of barrels they got - the gas ports have been drilled out too large, which causes the bolt carrier to be sent back with too much force...thus the bent rivets and rear trunion problems. What bugs me is that they knew this was the problem, yet i still got another rifle with the same problem.
I am going to try and work with blaine tommorrow to get a different brand rifle to replace this one; I want no part of Lancaster Arms rifles anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fL2izajYoM
I've really lost faith in lancaster, as it turns out the issue is a known problem with a batch of barrels they got - the gas ports have been drilled out too large, which causes the bolt carrier to be sent back with too much force...thus the bent rivets and rear trunion problems. What bugs me is that they knew this was the problem, yet i still got another rifle with the same problem.
I am going to try and work with blaine tommorrow to get a different brand rifle to replace this one; I want no part of Lancaster Arms rifles anymore.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Wait. The bolt is hammering the rear trunion backwards out of the receiver? Bent rivets?
I obviously am no expert. Maybe the "too big gas port" story is correct.
But I have another theory.
We have a receiver that we've built into a rifle using a parts kit. The assembled rifle turns out to have been put together with the trunion holes too far back, so it won't hold the dust cover in. We drill out those rear rivets, egg out the holes in the receiver so we can reassemble the rear trunion 1/8" forward, and rivet it back together. A little spray finish and voila!
Only problem is, there's nothing but friction keeping those rivets from moving back to their old locations in the egged out holes. 500 rounds is like hitting the rear trunion (lightly) backwards with a hammer 500 times, and with all the holes elongated, back she comes.
I think you got a "repaired" gun that they hoped would hang together. You put it through its paces and proved that their repair was purely cosmetic.
Or, maybe, it could be that the gas port is too big. Whatever. Don't deal with those clowns any more. I'd ask for my money back and maybe a suggestion of a better choice of assembler.
I pity Atlantic for having to be the public face of that group.
-Sam
I obviously am no expert. Maybe the "too big gas port" story is correct.
But I have another theory.
We have a receiver that we've built into a rifle using a parts kit. The assembled rifle turns out to have been put together with the trunion holes too far back, so it won't hold the dust cover in. We drill out those rear rivets, egg out the holes in the receiver so we can reassemble the rear trunion 1/8" forward, and rivet it back together. A little spray finish and voila!
Only problem is, there's nothing but friction keeping those rivets from moving back to their old locations in the egged out holes. 500 rounds is like hitting the rear trunion (lightly) backwards with a hammer 500 times, and with all the holes elongated, back she comes.
I think you got a "repaired" gun that they hoped would hang together. You put it through its paces and proved that their repair was purely cosmetic.
Or, maybe, it could be that the gas port is too big. Whatever. Don't deal with those clowns any more. I'd ask for my money back and maybe a suggestion of a better choice of assembler.
I pity Atlantic for having to be the public face of that group.
-Sam
Sam - the rivets really do look like they are being bent outwards by the force of impact; i tried to get a good shot in the second video of it; you can actually see them 'prying away' from the receiver face. I suppose they could be repairing badly assembled rifles, but these rifles are built on US made NDS-2 receivers, which I was under the impression are brand new for this assembly. Given that they are new receivers, they should be able to drill the rivet holes themselves - or they could've been pre-drilled by nodak spud, I suppose.... I checked the rivets VERY carefully on this second rifle, and marked the location of the rear trunion before shooting - I didn't see any egged out areas around the rivets until after I had shot it some.
Oh, also, the rifle started keyholing after 2 or so mags last night. Picture attached.
Really, the part that really bothers me is this: Lancaster KNEW when I called that these barrels were causing this problem; they admitted so when I spoke to them the second time - but Shane STILL told me to 'hammer out the back of my dust cover' when I first called. Secondly, Lancaster KNEW when I called that they did not have a rifle that would not break to send me; Shane was non-commital and said they 'might not have a rifle for me' when I called on the day they told me it'd be shipped to get a tracking #... Then when blaine got in touch with them, they reversed their story.
I believe that they shipped me a rifle that they knew was not good to go.
Last of all, they said they were shipping a replacement, but did not do so. When I called for a tracking #, they gave me a tracking # and indicated the rifle had been shipped - but in reality, the tracking # was on a pre-printed sticker and they really didn't ship out the rifle until the day afterwards. This is what i'd normally consider a small thing, but tied with other things that I believe were shady or dishonest, it all adds up.
Third, They promised me free magazines for the hassle, but none were included with the rifle. As with above, this is what i'd consider a small thing and normally wouldn't even bother to call them and ask about the mags...but with the rest of it, it all adds up and makes me very frustrated. Blaine has been the shining star in this entire ordeal - I believe i'd still not have a replacement rifle from the first time without his help.
The really irritating part is that it cost me almost 2 tins of ammunition just to be sure that I have an AK74 that won't fall apart after 1000 rounds are shot through it. I like shooting at much as the next guy, but that 200$ of ammunition could have bought me a red jacket built AK instead of a rough rider, AND i wouldn't have been without a rifle for 20 days while trying to get a working replacement.
I've entirely given up on lancaster and will be talking with blaine later today about getting this POS out of my life and replacing it with a better build; perhaps one by In Range, or by Red Jacket (I think Red Jacket is winning the race at this time)
Oh, also, the rifle started keyholing after 2 or so mags last night. Picture attached.
Really, the part that really bothers me is this: Lancaster KNEW when I called that these barrels were causing this problem; they admitted so when I spoke to them the second time - but Shane STILL told me to 'hammer out the back of my dust cover' when I first called. Secondly, Lancaster KNEW when I called that they did not have a rifle that would not break to send me; Shane was non-commital and said they 'might not have a rifle for me' when I called on the day they told me it'd be shipped to get a tracking #... Then when blaine got in touch with them, they reversed their story.
I believe that they shipped me a rifle that they knew was not good to go.
Last of all, they said they were shipping a replacement, but did not do so. When I called for a tracking #, they gave me a tracking # and indicated the rifle had been shipped - but in reality, the tracking # was on a pre-printed sticker and they really didn't ship out the rifle until the day afterwards. This is what i'd normally consider a small thing, but tied with other things that I believe were shady or dishonest, it all adds up.
Third, They promised me free magazines for the hassle, but none were included with the rifle. As with above, this is what i'd consider a small thing and normally wouldn't even bother to call them and ask about the mags...but with the rest of it, it all adds up and makes me very frustrated. Blaine has been the shining star in this entire ordeal - I believe i'd still not have a replacement rifle from the first time without his help.
The really irritating part is that it cost me almost 2 tins of ammunition just to be sure that I have an AK74 that won't fall apart after 1000 rounds are shot through it. I like shooting at much as the next guy, but that 200$ of ammunition could have bought me a red jacket built AK instead of a rough rider, AND i wouldn't have been without a rifle for 20 days while trying to get a working replacement.
I've entirely given up on lancaster and will be talking with blaine later today about getting this POS out of my life and replacing it with a better build; perhaps one by In Range, or by Red Jacket (I think Red Jacket is winning the race at this time)
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
What a crock of poo... The sooner you're rid of it...and them...the better.
Kudos to Atlantic for treating you right. Shame they're associated with these slobs.
Enjoy your Red Jacket Kalashnikov!
-Sam
Kudos to Atlantic for treating you right. Shame they're associated with these slobs.
Enjoy your Red Jacket Kalashnikov!
-Sam
Talked to Blaine - looks like he'll be shipping out an In Range rifle tommorrow and arranging for lancaster to pick up this rifle. And so ends my lancaster debacle. A big thumbs up + kudos to Blaine @ atlantic; it's been nothing but good dealing with him.
Atlantic Firearms
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 314
The replacment In Range 74 was boxed up this morning & will ship out today via fedex ground , we had the guys add a few extra mags in with the rifle . We will have the factory get in touch with you to retieve the faulty unit.
grilledcheese
Member
Great. Now I'm getting nervous. I'm gonna run a couple hundred more rounds through mine this weekend. If my rifle shows evidence of the same problems, I will be highly PO'd.
Darn it.
Jeffrey
Darn it.
Jeffrey
Atlantic Firearms
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
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- 314
FYI we have shipped over 300 of these rifles and only had approx 3-4 issues so there is not reason to brand every rifle as having the same issue. Yes things like this can arise but often it gets swept up into a mass hysteria via the internet . If any customers have bought a rifle from us and a issue crops up please rest assured we will work with you to get it resolved in as quick and painless manner as possible.
grilledcheese
Member
Oh dear, where to start...
I finally made it to the range this morning to test out my new Lancaster Bulgarian Red Wood AK74. The first magazine of surplus 5.45 fired at an old silhoutte target yielded this:
Yep, that's right. Keyholing at twenty-five yards. Headless, I feel your pain.
We then tried a magazine of new production Wolf 5.45 which produced similar results, and even tried a few rounds with the muzzle brake off. Same results.
As per their excellent reputation, Atlantic Firearms is on the case, and I have no doubt that the matter will be resolved.
I'm just a bit bummed that such a beautiful and seeming well assembled rifle would have such issues.
Drats.
Jeffrey
I finally made it to the range this morning to test out my new Lancaster Bulgarian Red Wood AK74. The first magazine of surplus 5.45 fired at an old silhoutte target yielded this:
Yep, that's right. Keyholing at twenty-five yards. Headless, I feel your pain.
We then tried a magazine of new production Wolf 5.45 which produced similar results, and even tried a few rounds with the muzzle brake off. Same results.
As per their excellent reputation, Atlantic Firearms is on the case, and I have no doubt that the matter will be resolved.
I'm just a bit bummed that such a beautiful and seeming well assembled rifle would have such issues.
Drats.
Jeffrey
Slvr Surfr
Member
What is causing the key holing ? I have never seen bullet holes like that without the round striking something first.
That is crazy!! Is that the rough rider version?? stainless barrel or the chrome lined?Oh dear, where to start...
I finally made it to the range this morning to test out my new Lancaster Bulgarian Red Wood AK74. The first magazine of surplus 5.45 fired at an old silhoutte target yielded this:
Yep, that's right. Keyholing at twenty-five yards. Headless, I feel your pain.
We then tried a magazine of new production Wolf 5.45 which produced similar results, and even tried a few rounds with the muzzle brake off. Same results.
As per their excellent reputation, Atlantic Firearms is on the case, and I have no doubt that the matter will be resolved.
I'm just a bit bummed that such a beautiful and seeming well assembled rifle would have such issues.
Drats.
Jeffrey
HorseSoldier
Member
Most likely improper barrel twist that's not adequate to properly stabilize the round, or maybe just an improperly dimensioned barrel (like Century's use of 5.56mm barrels on some of their Tantal builds).
I have seen one well made 74 from a reputable builder (and using the original barrel, if I recall correctly) that had zero accuracy issues with mil-surp ammo, but keyholed at 25 with 70 grain Wolf ammo -- theory was normal AK-74 barrel twist is just marginal for the heavier bullets. OP says this one is keyholing with standard ammo as well, though, so my guess would be wrong sized barrel.
Just to chime in. Blaine from Atlantic runs a great business. I had an issue with a Vector RPK years back, and he called me personally and took care of it. Very professional and inspired a lot of confidence.
I also can speak in support of Lancaster (and Chet). I have a Polish AK from them and its really good (no issues). As Blaine pointed out- its the few that needed to be sent back which cause a big stink on the internet.
I'm actually buying my next Lancaster from Blaine and wouldn't think twice about it.
Absolutely agreed, Buck00. Blaine is a great guy and takes care of his customers. In fact, I think he'd be the only place i'd be willing to try a lancaster from
GrilledCheese - damn, that sucks. I guess you do feel my pain
I actually took a real close look at another one of my targets from the first RR rifle that I took out - it was replaced by the rifle that keyholed badly as shown by my picture in post #81:
There are 2 keyholes in my target from that first rifle too. Not as bad - the second rifle had bullets hitting the target totally sideways - but the target from the first rifle has a couple of keyholes that at first I thought might have been 2 shots close together also.. Both of my lancaster rifles had about 500-650 rounds put through them. Now that I have a chrome lined barrel to observe and compare to, I am confident that neither of my RR's came with the chrome lined barrels, just an FYI. I didn't get a chance to test my second barrel from dead cold after it started keyholing to see if it only did it when hot, or if it started doing it permanently...
GrilledCheese - damn, that sucks. I guess you do feel my pain
I actually took a real close look at another one of my targets from the first RR rifle that I took out - it was replaced by the rifle that keyholed badly as shown by my picture in post #81:
There are 2 keyholes in my target from that first rifle too. Not as bad - the second rifle had bullets hitting the target totally sideways - but the target from the first rifle has a couple of keyholes that at first I thought might have been 2 shots close together also.. Both of my lancaster rifles had about 500-650 rounds put through them. Now that I have a chrome lined barrel to observe and compare to, I am confident that neither of my RR's came with the chrome lined barrels, just an FYI. I didn't get a chance to test my second barrel from dead cold after it started keyholing to see if it only did it when hot, or if it started doing it permanently...
grilledcheese
Member
I wanted to wait until I had newsworthy info to post, so here it is:
First off, Blaine and the folks at Atlantic Firearms have once again upheld their excellent reputation. When I called them on Saturday I was assured that they would contact Lancaster Arms Monday morning and have them contact me same day about pickup and repair or replacement of my rifle, and that's exactly what happened. John from Lancaster called Monday afternoon, and Tuesday morning I was able to make arrangements for pickup of my rifle with Penny. My rifle was then picked up today by FedEx at no charge to me.
According to John at Lancaster the barrel on my rifle will be changed because...
...wait for it...
...an issue concerning a batch of improperly machined U.S. made barrels has been identified, with the gist of it being the bores are a tad over-sized, resulting in key-holing. The defective barrels are being identified and new barrels brought in.
**Sigh*** It would appear that the Boom-Stick gods above are angry with 5.45 caliber US-made barrels...
I will add that the folks at Lancaster have been prompt and pleasant. I'll post again when my rifle returns and I have had a chance to fire it.
Jeffrey
First off, Blaine and the folks at Atlantic Firearms have once again upheld their excellent reputation. When I called them on Saturday I was assured that they would contact Lancaster Arms Monday morning and have them contact me same day about pickup and repair or replacement of my rifle, and that's exactly what happened. John from Lancaster called Monday afternoon, and Tuesday morning I was able to make arrangements for pickup of my rifle with Penny. My rifle was then picked up today by FedEx at no charge to me.
According to John at Lancaster the barrel on my rifle will be changed because...
...wait for it...
...an issue concerning a batch of improperly machined U.S. made barrels has been identified, with the gist of it being the bores are a tad over-sized, resulting in key-holing. The defective barrels are being identified and new barrels brought in.
**Sigh*** It would appear that the Boom-Stick gods above are angry with 5.45 caliber US-made barrels...
I will add that the folks at Lancaster have been prompt and pleasant. I'll post again when my rifle returns and I have had a chance to fire it.
Jeffrey
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