22 vs 460 Wtby

I think people agree that shot placment on an elephant is key. And shot placment with a .22 on a man would also be key.

A single shot 460 on an elephant, well placed, probably has the same affect as a single .22 on a man, well placed.

Energy is a meaningless measurement to attempt any comparison like that.

Penetration might prove more meaningful when it comes to elephants.

rc

I have thought abouth the same thing, roughly.


I rescue inner City Birds who are sick, hurt or as may be, provide first aid and or other procedures, care, convelescence, release when possible...and, I deal with quite a few Pellet Gun injuries and perforations.

Most of these Birds weigh from 140 to 350 Grammes....some lighter, depends on species.

Pellets range from the .177 to maybe .20, Wadcutters and BBs.


Dunno attributed Ft Lbs.


But, more like if a man were shot with something the size of an old 35mm Film Can, proportion wise.

That comparison would hold more water if you were hunting a man with a .22 and waited to line up the perfect shot on his vitals.

Try thinking in terms of thickness of skin and distance from surface to vital organs, rather than pure mass.

By that same logic, a 600# man would receive 3x less "effect" than I would (me being 200#) from being shot by the same bullet.

If energy was everything, then you would be right. Bullet placement, size, weight, etc are all factors. What if you fired a bullet the size of a bucket of paint with 100ft-lbs of energy at a guy...it wouldn't penetrate or kill him.

They do have one thing in common. I dont want to be shot by either-

Non-linear relationship

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Exactly. Too many other factors, it's not a simple equation.

Also to consider, as with many things (biological and inorganic alike), as size goes up, structural integrity/strength goes down. Pound for pound, a man is much stronger than an elephant; A man in good shape can lift at least his own weight with relative ease, while an elephant could not stand up with 5 tons on it's back. Similarly, a cat 1/15th our size has strength disproportionate to that ratio (try holding one that's pissed off). Then consider an ant...........

never hunted elephant, but isn't the recommended shot placement on one a brainshot rather than vitals?
with an appropriate caliber it still usually requires a follow-up shot.
i'd think a couple rounds in the melon with a .22 would have similar effect on a man.
that being said, i'd have to agree with the apples-to-oranges sentiment.

It only takes 2 PSI for a number 8 nail to penetrate a human skull, so a 2x4 must be stronger than a man.

Interesting number crunching but its kinda comparing apples to oranges.

It only takes 2 PSI for a number 8 nail to penetrate a human skull

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I just love these tidbits, like the "it only takes 8 pounds of force to rip off an ear" and such.

Hold a nail to your head and apply 2 pounds of pressure. I gaurantee it's not going in. It'll barely leave a red mark on the skin.

well, to be fair about the nail thing, 2lbs of force applied to the head of a nail is multiplied several times that value at the point of the nail.

Remember the Dr. Shoals shoe insert commercial about the woman in high-heels and how the amount of pressure at the tip of her heals, under her normal weight, was actually equivalent to the weight of several elephants? Same principle.

Just clearing that up.

What about knockdown isn't anyone going to say there is no such thing.

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"knockdown" is a marketing term plain and simple. You have clearly ingested your share.

I bet a bullet the size of a bucket of paint fired with 100 ft lbs would knock him down though.

also a big key factor, ft. pounds over distance, and velocity.
a .22lr will penatrate a elk shoulder blade at 20 yards, so you could argue a 22lr can take down a elk, shot placement and distance is key.

i could argue that if i threw a rock at a brick wall it would have the same effect as pulling the wings off a fly.
dot dot dot

i could argue that if i threw a rock at a brick wall it would have the same effect as pulling the wings off a fly.

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What caliber for fly?

A better measurement would be how big a hole it makes. MacPherson estimates that you have to destroy 22 grams of lung tissue per 100 pounds of body weight, to kill an animal rapidly with a double-lung shot that doesn't hit the heart or aorta. For a 16,000 pound elephant, that's 352,000 grams, while a .460 Wby, even if the bullet tumbles (which even the roundnose bullets tend to, due to their length; recovered monolithic solids are usually bent slightly from tumbling), will crush maybe 500-700 grams tops.

Of course, a double lung shot on an elephant will result in it running several hundred yards, if not a good fraction of a mile, trumpeting and spraying blood from his trunk the whole way.

To kill an elephant cleanly with a .460, you'd want a heart, aorta, or brain shot.

On the other hand, a 200 pound human needs 44 grams of lung tissue, while a .22 roundnose crushes only about 10. Maybe 15 if it tumbles. A little better proportionally, but still pretty far short of the goal.

And similarly, while a double lung shot on a human with a .22 is probably going to be lethal eventually, they'd have quite a bit of time to get even. You'd once again want a heart, aorta, or brain shot.

What caliber for fly?

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kudos!
lmao at that one.
(.22WMR, by the way)

i still say the answer to the larger question is a headshot.
if you're undergunned for your prey, you'd better be able to put two into the noggin.
and you should seriously reconsider your caliber of choice.

if you're trying for a double-lung shot on an ELEPHANT, you must want to be trampled repeatedly by a soon-to-be-dead elephant.

Many years ago two Ph hunters were in a bar in Kenya discussing just such a question. Now, I think alcohol was involved, but who can say. (Short version) They proceeded to shoot an elephant in the soft area near the stomach and in direct line with the heart. The elephant showed no reaction. Took a while, but it died from the lowly .22.

Now, you may cast aspersions upon this story, but I've heard it from another PH who was there (I've been on 4 safaris), and he wouldn't ever inflate a story ...