Bad Guys are heavily armed in Houston

Problem with trying to move a rifle around in a car is just that. Situation awareness was probably what could have avoided that.

When the gun control activists say "Why would anyone need (fill in the blank) for self-defense?!", show them this.

I say over and over again, situational awareness is the key... If some shady looking people start walking in my direction, my hand instantly goes to my gun and I make eye contact and get ready for action. It sucks even worse that it happened to a family..

He will be treated fairly here in Texas. They say 40% of all people executed for capitol crimes are here in Texas. I say it won't come quick enoung!

He will be treated fairly here in Texas. They say 40% of all people executed for capitol crimes are here in Texas. I say it won't come quick enoung!

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Which has a flip side. There really is no reason for a selfish criminal to be taken alive if wanted for a capitol crime in Texas, they are assured to be killed anyways. Kinda encourages going down in a gun fight.
If they give up they will die, if they fight they may die or may escape for the time being.

I guess I have never considered I might come up against an AK 47.

Some magazines have suggested a car gun actually needs to be a rifle, but I have never given it much thought until now.

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Having a rifle is great, but not for personal protection in these type of situations. Someone comes to your door with a gun. You are not going to fumble for a rifle and swing the barrel in his direction before he opens up on you. Now a handgun or SBR (or non NFA handgun that is really more of a short rifle) you may get pointed and shooting in the right direction.
Really a rifle is going to be more for recreation, dispatching dangerous critters, or coming to the aid of others with accurate fire. Not for immediate personal protection.

Situation awareness was probably what could have avoided that.

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For everyone posting this. Yeah, right.

As you are loading your two kids into the back of the car and strapping them in the kids seats no one can sneak up on you because you are so good.

Relatives of the two fugitives state that the BG's vow not to be taken alive.

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Good. I hope the Houston PD does requests.

I do have to agree with the situational awarness people dont just appear behind you they came from somewhere. If you're looking around you would have seen them before you started loading the kids, again getting closer to you after one was loaded and you were going to the other side of the car and again before you got in the car, but regardless of "situational awarness" or not it is absolutly horrible what happend to that family. I hope the the bad guys get their wish and die at the muzzle end of a good cops gun... no reason for the tax payers to pick up their tab while they are on death row..... why settle on a rifle get a Judge load it with 45 LC or .410 0 buck shot and let em have it. To big to carry? maybe... leave it in the glove box

(keep in mind I have two kids and have been increasingly paranoid since they were born, as far as Im concerned everyone is out to hurt my family)

At least I now understand why many of you on this site suggest a 1911 in lieu of a .380 pocket pistol.

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We lawful citizen types have an edge we can exploit to overcome disadvantages in firepower, however, and that's training. We practice and hone our skills. We can take specialty courses. We can buy the highest quality arms and ammunition. The BG, on the other hand, probably doesn't train much. Whether he does or doesn't, though, doesn't mean that you can't out-train him.

So the BG and his associate are approaching your vehicle and they have an AK-47. You can draw and put a round into the gunman's face, ending the confrontation immediately. Even a .380, used correctly, could have saved that poor girl's life. And hell yeah, let's hope the perp gets his wish. Go Houston PD!

What a tragic event.

Which has a flip side. There really is no reason for a selfish criminal to be taken alive if wanted for a capitol crime in Texas, they are assured to be killed anyways. Kinda encourages going down in a gun fight.
If they give up they will die, if they fight they may die or may escape for the time being.

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Can it go that way? Sure.

However, it can go the other way as well. Criminals can also turn themselves in and plead for life in prison if they cooperate or roll over on their associates.

I'd like to keep a rifle as a car gun, but my CCW prohibits it.

I'm sorry for the family. However, I'm putting my money on Houston PD giving these guys their wish. Rightly so.

Someone that will kill a 3 year old little girl over some car rims deserves absolutley no mercy.

At least I now understand why many of you on this site suggest a 1911 in lieu of a .380 pocket pistol.

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If he hadn't spent $2000 on the rims, he might even be able to afford that 1911. Its too bad his little kids suffered for such a stupid possession. I hope the perps are not taken alive... as per their wishes. A few rounds of ammo is cheaper than a 15 year stint on death row.

KBintheSLC said:

If he hadn't spent $2000 on the rims, he might even be able to afford that 1911. Its too bad his little kids suffered for such a stupid possession. I hope the perps are not taken alive... as per their wishes. A few rounds of ammo is cheaper than a 15 year stint on death row.

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I didnt read it where it said he spent $2000 on wheels. I think he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If it wasnt him, it would have been someone else.

Seeing as we don't dwell on random violent crime stories here on THR, let's move this over to S&T and have a realistic discussion of how to apply situational awareness (1st) and realistic tactics (a distant 2nd) to avoid/survive the situation.

For my part I'll say that a fast-shooting moderately powerful HANDGUN that I've practiced firing in and around a vehicle -- one-handed if necessary -- is MUCH more of what I'd want in that situation than any rifle, SBR, or shotgun. You don't have to outGUN them -- (assuming no body armor) you "simply" have to out maneuver and outshoot them. Focusing on the total firepower of the attacker's one weapon is misleading. If you can place hits on him with a handgun, they'll be plenty effective. Trying to aim/point and fire a carbine from the driver's seat of a car, at an attacker standing by the b-pillar of your door opening, would be funny to watch if the consequences weren't so dire.

Again, though, if your situational awareness (including everything from choosing an advantageous place to park in the beginning, to noticing who is loitering in the area as you approach your car) is so weak that you find yourself confronted unexpectedly by multiple assailants, one of them armed with a Kalashnikov ... well, your odds are pretty bad.

[EDIT to say: As this is now in S&T, we don't need to discuss any further the grisly ways we wish these criminals would be executed, or how we'd like the cops to administer final judgment. That's off-topic for S&T, and THR in general.]

I think I would get a short barrel AK for the car.


$399.00 right now on GB 12" barrel

I think I would get a short barrel AK for the car.
$399.00 right now on GB 12" barrel

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Can you place center-of-mass hits on a bad guy quickly and accurately with an AK pistol, when firing across your body and out of position in the seat of a car?

Would you be more successful doing the same exercise with a service-size handgun in a common pistol caliber?

What does an AK pistol give you? What make it a good choice? We can assume won't be likely to need 30 rds. And that you aren't likely to need the energy and velocity of the 7.62x39mm cartridge -- in fact, they'll probably hurt more than help.

It might seem reasonable to say, "well if he's got an AK, I want an AK," but I maintain that this is false logic.

Another incredible moving, shrinking thread. Let's keep it real, and keep on topic for S&T now that it's here. No more references to crocodiles, vigilantism, etc. are necessary, or welcome. Contribute to the discussion in a positive, useful manner, or just read the thread and pass on by...

lpl

Okay, just a couple of thoughts.

One, this guy is in my thoughts and prayers. Catching and hanging every murderer in the Houston metro-area won't bring this guy's kids back.

That being said, I hope they get these bastards. And if they wish to fight, I hope they get a gift of lead.

As for the tactics, the fact these guys had atleast one AK isn't nearly as important as whether they had Body Armour or not.

We don't know the exact tactical situation this guy was faced with, but I would rather have a high-cap 9mm in this situation than a rifle. I could pull it and open fire alot more easily than the same with a long gun. And the attacker would be just as dead with 9mm in his body as he would with .308 or .223...

Personally, I like the Tokarev or CZ-52 for a car gun more than just about anything. At most, a Kel Tec .223 pistol would be the ticket.

Really, a rifle in this situation only gives those attackers a distinct advantage at range. If they came up real quick, and closed to within 10 meters or so, their advantage was in numbers and ammo capacity. This guy was in a really bad situation. Leave the kids, and who knows what happens. Get in a gunfight, you almost certainly get killed simply because the number of assailants.

even if the man had fired on the assailants the chances of stopping all three of them before any of them could open fire with his family in the car are slim and none. he probably presumed that cooperating would save his family, sadly this was not the case.

as far as the situational awareness goes it is easy to get distracted when dealing with kids, having a second parent there can help keep your awareness in check by watching the kids while the other checks the area but even then sometimes it is not enough. if the attackers had been in a car before they attacked they may not have appeared as a threat beforehand.

i think the victims in this case were really just outgunned, outmanned, and had no options. sometimes the bg gets the drop on good people and bad things happen. all we can do is try our best to be prepared for the worst and carry on living our lives.

I'd like to keep a rifle as a car gun, but my CCW prohibits it.

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Nick, it sounds like you don't live in Texas.

I prefer a M1 Carbine for the car/truck gun. Mine just fits perfect in the car. But really, anything from a Mini-14/AR/AK/M1 cabine/Levergun/12 guage/etc... will do for most situations.

But for those of you who can't have a long gun in the car, I do suggest your handgun be as capable as you can get it.

Might keep the 642 J frame or P3AT for the walk around gun but I suggest a Glock or something like that for the bigger one you keep in the cars console (or carry when you can wear a coat.)

Won't the Five-SeveN defeat some armor? I think it would be a good alternative to a rifle in the car.

According to the article this wasn't a carjacking at the typical red light but was right outside their apartment as they were getting into the vehicle. This points to a situational awareness failure. Not sure how else this could've been avoided. A car gun (of any kind) wouldn't have been accessible in this case. 1st Step: Situational awareness between your house/apartment and your vehicle. If it's dangerous, don't go outside yet. 2nd Step: Have your CCW accessible in the event your situational awareness failed you.

Regarding the other kind of carjackings while the vehicle is in motion: companies out there can armor most any car for an arm and a leg (maybe $10,000+), at least against most pistol rounds. Not sure what else would be good here. One thing I've been trying recently (learned from THR) is to allow wiggle room at a red light so if you need to escape, you can. Don't tailgate at an intersection.

Edit: I also wanted to point out that the article called the AK-47 in question an "assault rifle." It is confirmed to be select-fire?

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I'd like to keep a rifle as a car gun, but my CCW prohibits it.
Nick, it sounds like you don't live in Texas.

I prefer a M1 Carbine for the car/truck gun. Mine just fits perfect in the car. But really, anything from a Mini-14/AR/AK/M1 cabine/Levergun/12 guage/etc... will do for most situations.

But for those of you who can't have a long gun in the car, I do suggest your handgun be as capable as you can get it.

Might keep the 642 J frame or P3AT for the walk around gun but I suggest a Glock or something like that for the bigger one you keep in the cars console (or carry when you can wear a coat.)

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Nope I live in Iowa and open carry is very much looked down upon in my state. And the only restriction on my CCW is "Not valid for loaded long guns in motor vehicles." But I suppose I could get a Kel-Tec PLR-16 or CIA Draco AK-47 pistol and fully load it as a car gun?

and my main carry piece is a Glock 22 with 3 15 round mags of winchester ranger 180gr BJHP