.22 penetration?

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I was trolling around on youtube when I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i11CeTCNOg

it looks like two feet of ballistics gell and the .22 goes almost all the way through [isnt 18" enough to be considered a good defensive round?]

now dont jump on and start flaming me saying that I want to use a .22 as my carry weapon because no, I don't.

[[[interruption, there was just multiple shots fired across the street, I already called the police and rounded up the fam...it's all quiet now but im still on edge]]] anyways:

What I do want to do is justify getting a builders stamp to convert my 10/22 to full auto, I really just want it to blow away cans and carve my mark into paper but that wouldn't justify the tax stamp...so, would a full auto .22 [around 650 rpm] be effective in stopping a bg?

Man I hate my neighbors, I grew up in the projects and I felt safer than I do here! and the worst part? We are locked in till may of next year... Is it legal to mount a .50 cal on your roof?
 
Sorry to break it to you but unless you get something like a previously registered auto sear you won't be able to make the conversion. The licenses needed to become a manufacturer are prohibitivley expensive and not given to people who just want to "blow away cans and carve my mark into paper". And doing so without the tax stamp or SOT is bad juju.

Also, while there's nothing illegal per se in most jurisdictions about using FA in SD situations doing so in many jursidictions will probably garner a much greater degree of scruitiny than you'd prefer over your actions.

All that said, a burst of .22lr will probably be effective against a non-armored hostile human. Probably about like a single blast from a shotgun loaded with #1 or so buckshot (yes, yes, that's larget diameter than a .22, but its a sphere so it would need the extra mass to penetrate the same). Which is a far more appropriate weapon for such a situation. Its going to be more reliable in operation, doesn't require expensive tax stamps or licenses to possess, and won't raise so many eyebrows if actually used.
 
Simple - manufacturing an auto sear is one thing. It is considered a new auto gun by the atf. While there are manufacturers who can do this, they can only be sold to LE/Military. All full auto devices available to the public have to have been registered before 1984 I believe. It might be 1964. Anyways, you cannot manufacturer a NEW fully auto and have it in civilian hands. You can purchase one built before the registry was closed, but you cannot add one to the registry (due to it being closed)
 
Great Wrzesinski - It has been raining on your parade since 1986.

Evidently you forgot to read this section of the document you linked:
"Note also that ATF will not approve the making of a machinegun it determines would violate 18 USC 922(o). Section 922(o) generally prohibits the possession of machineguns manufactured on or after May 19, 1986."
Section 3.2.3 on Page 23. Sorry, friend. I hate to break it to you this way.
 
hmm...I am military, could I get one then? if so under what conditions? and how are all these videos on youtube with full auto 10/22's legal if nobody is allowed to make them?

the law sucks sometimes...but thats the price to pay for being such a great country.
 
No, the military can buy one, a soldier cannot. The difference is one is an organization, the other is an individual.

The 10/22 has been around for a long time. They very well could have been modified with sears built before the deadline. I didn't say you couldn't get one, I said you couldn't make one.

this very old thread might help you out a bit.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-154264.html

According to this thread, the trigger pack you need was 6-8k back in 2005.

Oh, as to being military. You have all the privileges of a civilian, but none of the perks of the "military" when you are purchasing stuff for yourself. While some stuff is available to the military, it is only available to a unit and not individual soldiers for purchase.
 
hmm...I am military, could I get one then?
No.

The military can get them, but you, as an individual soldier, cannot unless as issued to you as part of your combat equipment. And then, just like a select fire M4, SAW, M2, tank, F-18, etc you just get to use it for a while. It's not yours to keep.

and how are all these videos on youtube with full auto 10/22's legal if nobody is allowed to make them?

If they were made, and registered before May 1986 then they are totally legal to own and shoot, depending on local ordinances. Some of those may also be in other countries. Some places make it very hard to get a permit to own guns in the first place, but once you have that permit getting fun stuff is far easier than it is here. It's also possible (haven't seen the video so I don't know for sure) that they have something that appears to be full auto but isn't really (e.g. bump firing, hand crank systems, etc). The other possibility of course is that those people just made all the evidence needed to send them on an all expenses paid (by taxpayers) 10 year vacation to the Gray Bar Hotel.

Edit: scythefwd types faster than I do. And was more succinct.
 
it looks like two feet of ballistics gell and the .22 goes almost all the way through [isnt 18" enough to be considered a good defensive round?]
Unfortunately neither gelatin block was calibrated to verify resistance to bullet penetration. In addition many of the bullet tracks penetrated ordnance gelatin that had been disrupted (cracked) by previous shots, which reduces penetration resistance (both inertial and shear forces).
 
You don't even need a full auto .22 rifle to stop a bad guy - this is a retread of the same old argument that comes up every month, the long and short of which boils down to the fact that the 22 isn't really an effective self defense round, but on the other hand: "How many people have found volunteers to stand there and be shot with 22lr, to test the theory"?

If all I had in my hands was my 22 rifle, then that's what I'd use, full auto or not. But....there are many many more effective rounds than 22lr, full auto or not.
 
From my experience 22 long rifle is not a good penetrator on humans. I would go with something different.
 
22 Penetration

One night I caught a couple of 22 rounds in the thigh. I finished what needed to be done and then went to meds. One went clean through and one was under skin in back of leg. They did not put in a condition to have to stop work, but it hurt some to walk on it.

Some guy was arraigned for severely beating his wife. Seems she shot him 7 times in the head with a 22 revolver of some sort. There were no rounds in the cheeks or eyes. It did not stop him from beating her.

So.....
 
I wouldnt want to be hit by a .17 caliber airgun , much less a .22.LR. A good hit to the heart and lung area would be quite fatal . More so to the head leaving for a high probability of brain trauma and subsequent vegetative state.
 
22 caliber lethality.

Howdy,
Over several years, I have read reports on the lethality of the lowly 22.
One thing that seems to be common is that a shot to the skull (into the brain itself(not through a jaw or something similar), can be a quick, fatal wound. Most 22lr head wounds are more likely to disable the victim quickly(picture Bobby Kennedy, lying on the floor, unable to respond in any way), but kill more slowly, with little chance of a full recovery.
Shots into the vital areas of the body do not seem to disable the victim quickly, and many victims make a recovery, but, in a surprisingly high percentage of instances, they will make partial recoveries for a few days or weeks, then succumb to various effects of the wound.
I know of one individual (my uncle) who; bought the cheapest pistol he could find and a single box of 22cal, SHORT hollowpoint cartridges; spread a plastic sheet on the floor of the living room in front of the sofa(to keep the mess to a minimum); loaded 1 (ONE) round into the chamber and shot himself in the temple. He fell onto the plastic and was dead when they found him, a few hours later.
There was no evidence that he moved at all, from where he fell.
The point is: you can argue that the 22 is nothing but a pipsqueak of a cartridge, but IT WILL KILL YOU just as dead as any other, although it may take a while to do so(but maybe not too long either).
The key to quick lethality is a combination of the exact location of the wound, the velocity(distance the bullet traveled) and the type of bullet(solid vs hollowpoint).
Extremely deep penetration is not a requirement for a fatal wound if it happens to be in the brain, and there are several openings in the head which allow entry into the brain without penetrating any bone at all.
There may have been more deer dispatched, quickly, quietly and in the dark of night, by poachers using a 22 and flashlight, than any other method, if the truth be known.
I most certainly am not advocating this practice, which requires precise headshots, but know that it is used and has been used, a long time.
I am aware that this is the age of MAGNUM everything being thought of as a MINIMUM requirement for anything, but people have been stopped, dead in their tracks, by obsolete firearms and ammunition, as long as they've been around. More, I am sure, have only been wounded and were able to function for some time after the wound. Many probably recovered, more or less completely.
You can nitpick over many related subjects forever, but in real life, any gun can kill anyone.
That's why we go to all the trouble of trying to teach folks how to handle/use all firearms.
Thanks for your time.
 
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paducahrider - I'm sure we all know about the lethality of the "lowly" .22lr. I lost an acquaintance in high school to one shot in the chest (got his heart). We don't argue that the .22 won't kill you, we argue that there are many better suited rounds for SD.
 
"we argue that there are many better suited rounds for sd"

Howdy!
To scythefwd:
That may be YOUR argument, but the original poster specifically stated that that was not his intent.
His fundamental question was: "would a full auto 22(around 650 rpm) be effective at stopping a bg?"
The answer isn't so simple because of the multiple factors involved: type of bullet(s), velocity and bullet placement.
It would undoubtedly stop a bg, but a compounding factor is the exact definition of "effective".
That tends to be thought of as "how quick will the bad guy drop?", and even that will be further complicated by factoring in the exact nature of the bg; weight, mental attitude, distance and whether or not he is armed (and what with).
The 22 isn't "quickly" effective enough, in my opinion only, to be considered the top choice of sd weapons, but if I had a full-auto or even a semi-auto 22 with a full magizine, I wouldn't feel too naked.
I'd sure feel better with something like a side by side 12 or 16 gauge full of buckshot, or even a pump, of similar gauge.
The impact of a bunch of .22 pellets, hitting almost the same spot, at the same moment, would be far greater than more widely scattered 22 caliber bullets, hitting one at a time.
The right pellet or bullet, hitting just the right spot, would be "effective", but the question in many minds would be; "which is the best way of delivering it?".
Once again, from my point of view, the shotgun has more of a chance to prevent even having to fire at all, as long as the bg can see and understand what he's up against, which, unfortunately, isn't the case, many times.
I would tend to answer the original poster's question with a "NO", simply because there are better comparitive ways for most situations.
Thanks for your time.
.
 
On penetration:
I've played with penetration tests using catalogues and textbooks.
Versus the catalogues/books a .22LR HV HP (el cheapo Federal 36 grain) from a 22" barrel had about the same penetration as a 9mm FMJ (115 gr. Winchester and some S&B) from a 4" barrel. I've posted results for several calibers in other threads.
I still wouldn't choose a .22 as a HD tool unless there was nothing else available.
 
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