Gun Culture: Older generation vs. younger generation

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That attitude exists, as others have said, outside the shooting culture as well. I remember going to a Search and Rescue meeting once. Everyone there was nice and all, but I could still tell that they thought of me as a kid. During a conversation about backcountry first aid, I made a comment about my Wilderness First Responder training, and that seemed to change their minds a bit.

Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with self confidence: If you look like you know what you're doing, and talk and act like you belong there (Respectfully and politely, of course) people tend to treat you pretty good. Not that most of the shooters that I've met don't treat you well, but there is a noticeable difference.

Best thing you can do is to give them a run for there money on the firing line. Oh, and don't hold your gun sidewise. It ejects the brass straight up on some of them.
 
You've seen it here a lot. Young people that have been shooting for years. And then guys like me, 56 and just started 5 years ago. However, I've been REALLY busy shooting in those 5 years, and my experience has mirrored many of yours. Old experienced shooters, that by sheer luck haven't shot their foot, or something more essential, off.
HACKS, as we call them.
Then, yes unfortunately, there's the "gangsta sideways" shooters. I asked one of the "trap kids" at our trap range, when I spotted him at the pistol range, if he'd like to try my Walther PPS 9mm. He said sure, then proceeded to waste a full mag of cartridges in about 3 seconds. That idiot didn't learn jack $h1t about a Walther PPS. His loss. He'll never get another offer. Fool could've had a shot at a 1911, a Beretta, and a honey of a Smith revolver.

In short, you do your best, and if the fools don't appreciate it, it's their loss.

Thank you for your service.

(Incidentally, I heard that for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and my service was in the early seventies. I still get a warm fuzzy feeling when I think about it. It sure took a while).

Jeff
USCG '71-'74 / Semper Paratus
 
There are young idiots, and there are old idiots.

We got 'em around here too. But we have a different name for 'em. Starts with an A. Don't matter where you go or what you do.....they ain't worth gettin' upset over.



Sometimes us old farts get ornery. Sometimes we remember the days when we were kids and could actually see the target and it pisses us off that we're gettin' old. Sometimes making fun of youngin's makes our day and we can go home and enjoy our prune juice. Just put up with us, and ignore the combover. You'll be there before you know it....
 
Sometimes you just leave.

One day at the large outdoor FOP range close to my day job, I was in a pistol pit, and two guys drove up to the one beside me. Looked to be an 80-something grandpa and his roughly 20-year-old grandson, with grand-dad mentoring. To my surprise, granddad tossed a half-dozen gallon plastic jugs out on the ground and they commenced to shooting. (Very against the rules at the FOP range... there's a lot of rocks in the soil around here). After I heard the third ricochet, I thought of going over to remind them that what they're doing is not OK.

It's not like I was in any danger, the earth berms separating the pistol-pits are very high, but I even had dirt raining down on me on some shots. Then realizing how an old war-veteran (he had the black, high-crown ball-cap on that named his unit and theater) might react to me, a 52 year-old "kid" correcting him in front of his grandson, I thought the best thing to do was just leave. This was a very rare occurrence though, I generally don't run into any crabby or unsafe shooters of any age at the FOP range.

Les
 
I'm 76 so I suppose I can speak on behalf of the grouche o"phart generation.

But first, let me say that over fifty years ago when I was near your age and fresh back from Korea, I experienced the very same thing that you experienced often enough. But after seeing each other a few times and gradually becoming acquainted, those old geezers (mostly WWI guys) became friends and mentors. There is and always has been a generation gap and often it is very wide. And the greater the age disparity, the greater the gap in most cases.

Elvis was just breaking on the scene back then. You can't imagine how offended the older generation was. Rock and Roll was hardly a step removed from devil worship. It hurt the ears, it caused young girls to become nymphomaniacs. Preachers condemned it from their pulpits, city officials sought to ban it. It couldn't be played at school proms.

And guess what. Today I feel about rap and hip hop just the way those geezers felt about Elvis and Jerry Lee.

The generation gap isn't just about music, of course, it is about everything, a complete value structure that includes manners, mores, behaviors, tastes, dress, language, you name it. So obviously, these two old boys are sitting over there quietly, firing a single shot every few minutes, having a zen moment with their rifles, and you show up and fire more rounds in a six second burst than they have fired all afternoon. See, to them you are just turning money into noise. They don't understand that you could possibly be practicing and even having a few zen moments of your own. To them you may be violating everything they believe shooting is about.

Besides, they are already predisposed not to like you much anyway. After all, you can still effortlessly pick up your brass, you can still see your toes when standing, and you don't have to ask your wife to tie your shoes. Moreover, you still have hair, and, crushingly, pretty women may look at you with some degree of interest. Something they will ever experience again. And finally, they are also aware that the high point of your day is not likely to be a really good BM. They have a lot of reasons not to like you too much.

Unfortunately, wisdom is not always a hand-maiden to old age. More often, the attitudes of elders become less flexible. They are less willing to "see the other side" of an issue. They are less likely to change their minds about anything. They have arrived at all the answers and your facts will only irritate them. And they will be impatient with you for not seeing and understanding that which seems so clear and obvious to them. This is why we call them grouchy old men and old fuddy duddies.

None of the foregoing excuses rudeness. But bear in mind that you and your friends see the world from a very different perspective than these old men. You are looking forward and they are looking backward so though you are traveling the same path, the view is quite different.

Regrettably, many old men, as well as many young men, are simply a$$holes, and neither is worth cultivating as friends. But friendships across the generation gap can be very rewarding for all concerned. So don't hesitate to be the first to extend a hand across the gap. You know where the old man is coming from. He has no idea where you come from.
 
You know ... about that whole slide locked back an sitting on the table, only to be carried in that position ...

I understand there's a lot of people who are arguably for a good reason leery about people who well, don't lock the slide back and have the bolt open and approach the shooting bench with trembling hands and a fearful look of respect in the almighty gun.

But when I walk into the range, I carry my weapon like I always do. Meaning concealed. so oftentimes I'll waltz into a range with a brick of ammunition in my hands, pull out my gun and sit it on the table (facing forward of course) and then go about setting everything up.

Please do tell me how this is any less or more safe than what I would call "bolt action hunter's safety?" I carry the freakin thing on my hip all day like that! (Although I do usually lay it with the safety pointing up.)

As for the age, I can only agree. While I personally haven't gotten (or noticed) nasty looks at the range I see it happening, too. I'm 27 and quite babyfaced. My wife is even younger and we really don't look like avid shooters.
Let's just hope our demeanor will keep on deterring folks like that. So far we've only gotten quite friendly receptions at ranges, shows and stores.
 
as L ASHCRAFT said it goes both ways...... last fall when i went to the range to sight in a new scope on the 1022 custom i saw both sides...i was joined soon by a a youger guy at the bench a couple down from me..... i'm 56 he looked to be 30 maybe.... very well mannered and practiced safe range skills..... he was shooting a centerfire bolt rifle of some sort so he was going at longer ranges than i...... after we both had fired a couple of groups he asked if he could go down and check his target... of course i put my rifle on the bench with the magizine out and the bolt locked open and said oh ya go ahead and then said the range is closed..... he was haveing trouble getting a good group he said when he returned and looking through my spotting scope i could see that.... i told him a couple of things to try like turning down the power of the scope because sometimes that helps rifles group better... he was a real pleasant kid and fun to shoot with.... then at the other end of the range a couple of loud young guys rammed in with aks and girl friends and started ripping off shots as fast as they pull the trigger.... the young guy and i just looked at each other and said well it's for me to go and he said me too... so there were kinds of shooters there that day... an old guy sharing a little guidence and nice younger guy wanting to shoot well and some other young guys acting like fools...........


LIFE IS SHORT.....
 
Ranges have all kinds of rules. Not all of them of them are intuitive, self evident, or even posted. Those old guys probably know the rule book by heart. Heck, they probably wrote it. Chances are you were violating some obscure rule, or three, you weren’t even aware of.

For example, and perhaps I don’t understand how your range works, but I’m surprised a private range lets you bring in four non-members at a time. My club allows a member to sponsor one visitor per day, and that visitor can only shoot on the range once per year. If they want to shoot more than that, they need to buy their own membership. Otherwise, what’s to stop five or ten guys going together to buying one membership and all shooting as a big group?

Not saying your range has that rule, but maybe something like that is what had them jacked up.
 
Its funny as I am 30 and when I started shooting at my local range the same thing happened to me. Some of the older members were abrasive and mildly hostile to anyone not old enough to qualify for AARP, the vast majority of the older guys were and are very polite and repectfull men that have helped make me a much better shot. they are the reason I got into C&R guns. Now I take my stepdaughter(11) and stepson(13) shooting and they enjoy shooting clays, smallbore rifle, and plinking with just about every gun I own. My kids are part of the next generation of shooting and my friends will one day be the old men when they grow up. The old men that I shoot with have seen such a radical change of our society that it is hard for me to imagine (my HS had a trap team)try and get one of those past the PTA nowadays. I think at times they look at some of us youngins and get grumpy about what ever has been botherin them.. a few of the guys have appologized for being rude to me for "some other crap going on". Everyone has an off day.
Personally my daughter gets a little miffed when she is working on shooting groups at distance and "some guy" as she puts it unloads a mag and disrupts her concentration, which effects her trigger pull. She has aked to leave cuz it just aint fun when that happens. I think my daughter may be a grumpy old man in disquise. My son on the other hand will have a good time as long as he is at the range, people talking while shooting clays....all you see is a smile for each break and a shrug when he misses. I am proud of my kids abilities and their level of sportsmanship, they are starting to shoot with the old men that taught me and so far all the old men have said has been positive about saftey,skill, attitude and respect.
If I saw the old men that left in a huff I would appologise for what ever it was that upset them and that i felt bad they they ended their range session over it. I would hope that would instill some good will and try and befriend them. If they still have a stick up their @#$ then you tried and you cannt befriends with everyone. but you can always be polite
 
OP, can I inquire as to what type of clothing your group was wearing?

Also, were you assuming a menacing stance that the old people might have seen on TV?

Precise movements with the firearms, as if you had been born with a firearm in your hand?
 
I bought my first AR in 1971 when I was in my 20s. Since I wasn't raised with guns (both of my very conservative parents disapproved of them), I had a steep learning curve, some of which was less-than-gently supplied by wiser and older gentlemen and which, in retrospect, I appreciate. On the other hand, I have had older gentlemen advise me on firearms with information that caused me to bite my lip to avoid laughing. That's the way life is.

I'm 60 now and I try to be courteous to all, young and old, because I am old enough to know I can learn something from either. I find it's a good philosophy.
 
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Unless I know you I usually just ignore everyone at the range.

Including the gray hairs.

At one time I tried to appease them while they plink away at one shot a minute with their scoped twenty two pistols.

Had one tell me that my guns were "too loud".

I don't try to appease anyone anymore.

If you don't like noise take up golf. :D
 
It could be it wasn't all about age.

a group of 5 combat veterans, 2 with Purple Hearts, and all with extensive and formal firearms training

It may have been that to them your gear and shooting style was too "tactical".

So they thought video games, not real life.

P.S.
Thanks, glad you made it back home.
 
I'm just a bit older than the 20 somethings coming back from Iraq and Afganistan. My last range trip some Young guys came in and were shooting their ARs. I overheard them talking about comparing them to the AK. I had just put away my AKs for the day and was finishing up with the .22s for fun. They struck me as military / former military. So, I quickly retreived one, loaded a 30 up for them and passed it off.

Keep an eye out for these guys. It used to be that veterans were all much older (From my view point). The Vietnam guys are turning 60. WW2 guys are in their upper 70's-80's. But there is now a group in their 20s & 30's SOME OF THEM HAVING MUTIPLE DEPLOYMENTS.

A BIG Thank you to the OP and the other Vets that hang around here.
 
Shame. Sounds like you guys were doing just fine.

There are certain control freak asshats out there who are compelled to run their mouths.
They cannot control it nor would they care anyway.

I daily thank my good fortune for my own range on my own farm I retired to.

I shoot, my neighbors shoot-no asshats.

I try to keep noise levels appropriate at various times and we all get along fine.
 
"But when I walk into the range, I carry my weapon like I always do. Meaning concealed. so oftentimes I'll waltz into a range with a brick of ammunition in my hands, pull out my gun and sit it on the table (facing forward of course) and then go about setting everything up.

Please do tell me how this is any less or more safe"

Okay, here's the answer, based on the rules at many of the ranges I've used over the years. Loaded guns must be pointed down range. When you pull your gun from the holster it's loaded, a round is chambered and it's not pointed down range. It may be just for a moment, but when you pull the gun up out of the holster it's loaded and not pointed down range. A small thing, but if that's the rule, that's the rule.

john
 
"Older generation vs. younger generation"? It's not a battle...it's just life.
Cro-Magnon youth looked down on those crusty old dudes who could no longer throw their spears more than 50 feet without assistance. Old Cro-Magnons remembered the Neanderthal wars fondly. Nobody liked the music. Youngsters have been thinking old guys don't get them for as long as there have been humans on the planet.

I follow the range rules and mind my own business. I let the RO deal with anyone not following the range rules. If I don't care for the behavior of the folk next to me on the line, I have the option of leaving.
.
 
Thanks for all the response, I will try to answer some questions.

Range rules do not require slides or bolts to the rear. Just to make sure I double checked, a copy of the rules is posted at each range. Its a moot point anyway, I never observed a pistol sitting on the firing line that did not have its slide to the rear.

Funny thing is, I had a nice conversation with one of these guys earlier, talking about handloading for 30.06. When the handguns came out the attitude changed.

It was a hot day, we were all wearing shorts and tshirts. So were the older gentlemen.

This incident didn't really bother me much, I have thicker skin than that. However it is one example of a larger trend that does bother me. I am not going to get turned off to shooting or change my habits because of a few grouchy old guys. I do worry about the younger, newer shooter who is turned off to the sport by the very people who have the most experience to share.
 
The ranges I use don't have the "bolt to the rear" rule, oddly. The one that is huge and bolded is the "point the barrel downrange" one.

I guess I'm spoiled?

Oddly enough though, speaking of trends that may turn shooters off, the gunshop we don't frequent anymore for pretty much a lousy attitude is run by one guy in his 50s, his wife and one guy in his 60s. So not really old enough to qualify as an "old fart," but rather just a dink.
To me it seems almost as if the notion "live and let live" is a booboo in the gun world. Because I can sense a lot of ... not disrespect .... but rather a certain sense of leeriness of other shooters oozing off of most "experienced" shooters. Or at least those who consider themselves the cream of the crop.
 
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When the handguns came out the attitude changed.
These are the self-appointed "experts" that cry foul when we talk about long range shooting with pistols. They can't do it, have never and would never even try, so to them it is impossible.
 
i have been on the receiving end of similar treatment. fwiw, i'm a 31yr old black male. most of my friends (many of whom are black, but definitely not all) have never fired a gun. i spend most of my range sessions with them teaching/coaching.

i am VERY aware of a few "factors" (age, style of dress, race, etc) that may be at play when i show up to the range. i make a habit of making eye-contact and speaking to everyone at the range (that makes eye-contact with me). it usually helps take the edge off of everybody else.
 
I guess I am an "Old Fart". My son thinks he is the gun expert though he has never own one. He uses my rifles and hand guns. I tell him to pull the rifle (8MM Mauser) tight to his shoulder before pulling the trigger. He goes Ok but does do it and it smacks hard in shoulder and bruises him and cries about it. Most young shooters learn about firearms for Hollywood or Inet. I learned from NRA classes. When I took the class we had to put orange weedwacker line in the barrel to show it is cleared before we walked down to changed targets. Don't knock us old guys thats how we got to be old guys. Now I have learned things from young guns too. I am retired and go to the range at least once a week. I hear guys complain why can we not rapid fire here? The reason is some idiot started shooting the ceiling lights. Just you common sense and the most important safety feature you brain.
 
Dear essayons21

First thank you for your articulate and well written post, as I am what you and your peers would consider the “older generation” I will share my thoughts based only on my experiences. By the time you have reached a certain age we don’t move as fast as you young guys do, and what we perceive to be sudden movements can surprise/startle us. Large crowds can be a little upsetting, new and different things take a little getting used to, and not all of us adapt to change as well as we should. If you and your five friends were shooting pistols at what had been primarily a long distance rifle range that is change. I would also assume that you were shooting more rounds per minute than was the normal rate of fire at that range. For many of us who were brought up to believe that shot placement is everything, not to down play its’ importance, what we believe to be fast fire = reckless shooting. Sadly there is the rare yet obnoxious mall ninja and sadly we can all fall into the bad habit of stereotyping.
I’m sorry that you and your friends had such an unpleasant interaction with several members of my age group, but I will make you a deal, if you promise not to think of anyone over 50 as a cranky old fart, (even though I can be at times) I won’t think of all of you as young know it all smart asses, OK?

Safe Shooting
 
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