Can H.O.A.s Ban Guns? Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mad Man

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
587
Location
USA
The previous thread, "Can HOA Ban Guns," was closed because

Unless we knows the setup of the charter of the OP article's HOA, we can't know from that squib if the guy is threatened or actually banned. We don't know if that particular HOA must have a super-majority vote to change the rules.

At this point, we're merely speculating from inadequate info. If somebody wants to monitor the deal and later on start a new thread, fine.

1. In my original post, quoting from the editorial (emphasis added)

Yet he has been threatened by his Homeowners Association and prohibited from earning a living as he chooses
...
But none of that seems to protect him from the Falcon Point HOA which has passed a rule specifically prohibiting residents from buying and selling firearms in the neighborhood

That seems pretty unambiguous that this is a prohibition.


2. If you follow the link to the original story, which I quoted in post # 18 of that thread, it states

A lawyer who represents Falcon Pointe Association sent a statement to KEYE which said, "The Association enacted a prohibition against operating a home based firearms sales business and did so in the best interest of the residents in the neighborhood."

Neighbors said they did not receive any heads-up about the amendment to the existing rule on home-based businesses.

"I pay dues. I expect somebody to tell me something when you change something that major," neighbor Wayne Williamson said.

Again, pretty unambiguous that this is a prohibition. And this also indicates that this rule change was not put to a vote of the homeowners.


3. The web site for the HOA in question is www.lifeatfalconpointe.com

The governing documents are available there.

The HOA's corporate Bylaws state (emphasis added)

C. Powers and Duties.

Section 17. Powers. The Board of Directors shall be responsible for the affairs of the Association and shall have all of the powers and duties necessary for the administration of the Association’s affairs and, as provided by law, may do or cause to be done all acts and things as are not by the Declaration, Articles, or these By-Laws directed to be done and exercised exclusively by the Voting Representatives or the membership generally.

The Board of Directors shall delegate to one of its members the authority to act on behalf of the Board of Directors on all matters relating to the duties of the managing agent or manager, if any, which might arise between meetings of the Board of Directors.

In addition to the duties imposed by these By-Laws or by any resolution of the Association that may hereafter be adopted, the Board of Directors shall have the power to establish policies relating to, and shall be responsible for performing or causing to be performed, the following, in way of explanation, but not limitation:

(a) preparation and adoption, in accordance with Article X of the Declaration, of annual budgets in which there shall be established the contribution of each Owner to the Common Expenses and Neighborhood Expenses;

(b) making assessments to defray the Common Expenses and Neighborhood Expenses, establishing the means and methods of collecting such assessments, and establishing the payment schedule for Base Assessments and any Neighborhood Assessments, if other than annual;

(c) providing for the operation, care, upkeep, and maintenance of all of the Area of Common Responsibility;

(d) designating, hiring, and dismissing the personnel necessary for the operation of the Association and the maintenance, operation, repair, and replacement of its property and the Area of Common Responsibility and, where appropriate, providing for the compensation of such personnel and for the purchase of equipment, supplies, and materials to be used by such personnel in the performance of their duties;

(e) collecting the assessments, depositing the proceeds thereof in a bank depository which it shall approve, and using the proceeds to operate the Association; provided, any reserve fund may be deposited, in the directors’ best business judgment, in depositories other than banks;

(f) making and amending rules and regulations;

(g) opening of bank accounts on behalf of the Association and designating the signatories required;

(h) making or contacting for the making of repairs, additions, and improvements to or alterations of the Common Area in accordance with the other provisions of the Declaration and these By-Laws after damage or destruction by fire or other casualty;

(i) enforcing by legal means the provisions of the Declaration, these By- Laws, and the rules and regulations adopted by it and bringing any proceedings which may be instituted on behalf of or against the Owners concerning the Association;

(j) obtaining and carrying insurance against casualties and liabilities, as provided in the Declaration, and paying the premium cost thereof;

(k) paying the costs of all services rendered to the Association or its Members and not chargeable directly to specific Owners;

(l) keeping books with detailed accounts of the receipts and expenditures affecting the Association and its administration, specifying the maintenance and repair expenses and any other expenses incurred;

(m) maintaining a membership register reflecting, in alphabetical order, the names, Unit addresses and mailing addresses of all Members;

(n) making available to any prospective purchaser of a Unit, any Owner of a Unit, any first Mortgagee, and the holders, insurers, and guarantors of a first Mortgage on any Unit, current copies of the Declaration, the Articles of Incorporation, the By-Laws rules governing the Unit and all other books, records, and financial statements of the Association; and

(o) permitting utility suppliers to use portions of the Common Area reasonably necessary to the ongoing development or operation of the Properties.

It's pretty unambiguous that not every rule change requires a vote of the homeowners of Falcon Pointe Community Association, Inc. An HOA that requires a general election for every rule change is rare.


4. Since this took place in Texas, see the section of Barbara Hogan's "Handbook for Texas Legislators Relating to Homeowners' Associations Issues" that I quoted in post # 18 of the previous thread.


5. Is there any other requirement that must be met before we can discuss this topic?
 
Okay, most people who talk like the HOAs can do anything they want rest that supposition on #1 they are private businesses and #2 you enter into a contract with them.

#1 'they are private businesses' might hold to a degree. Just like this forum can have rules about what words are allowed without breaking the right to free speech and a news-stand can sell the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue yet not sell Penthouse without breaking the right to free speech, as the restrictions are on governments setting up those rules. Heck, a Porn store can refuse to sell the bible as well.

However, we have basic inalienable human rights, which means no one can take them away. It's one thing to kick someone out of your forum or newsstand, as you have the freedom to go to another forum or another news stand. Yet the law views the home as a bit different. You DON'T have the same opportunity to just abandon a home and go to another one. This is most reflected in laws that spell out a "tenant's bill of rights" and similar conditions. Saying a homeowner or even a renter cannot read Penthouse in his own house IS in my eyes a restriction on an inalienable right and hence isn't worth the paper it is written on.


#2 Contract law. You are free to enter into a contract with whoever you want whenever you want however you want. Well if we are so free, aren't we free to exit the contract if we so want? (In fact, thats why so many deals used to be 'cash up front')

I don't get why people think any contract, including an HOA is an immutable contract. We see all the time when bankruptcy enters the picture contracts get changed, or before a contract runs it's course a group will en-mass call for a re-negotiation or they will stop work (or stop playing a certain sport)

a contract does NOT make you a slave. I can sign a contract with you that I will mow your grass all year long for $100. If I stop, the MOST you can do is demand my $100 back, you cannot FORCE me to mow you lawn, even if the contract contained no provision on what to do if I reneg. Heck, we'd go before a judge and I would most likely have to only pay a part of the money back...and that is if I still had it.

Further, there are plenty of unsaid and unwritten stipulations in a contract. Luckily for us, there are thousands and thousands of case laws on these unsaid and unwritten stipulations, which make up "tort law"

One such restriction is 'reasonable and foreseeable'

If you put landmines in your lawn, or get a really mean dog and leave him on your lawn, our contract is null and void, even if such terms were never mentioned. If a volcano started venting noxious gasses all summer long and people were advised to stay indoors as much as possible, our contract would be null and void. If gas prices skyrocket to $100 a gallon, our contract would be null and void.

similarly a HOA can add in new rules and restrictions, but a HOA must keep it's actions reasonable or they will end up nullifying their own contract (or it SHOULD be viewed as nullified by the courts...this doesn't happen enough)


The HOA may have originally only covered lawn ornaments, well kept trees, flag poles, etc, but something like a windmill tower, while never envisioned 10 years ago and not mentioned in the HOA would be quite reasonable for them to add into their rules.

An HOA regulation stating they had to put monitoring cameras up in your bedroom would be beyond the 'foreseeable and reasonable' unwritten clause, even if it somehow passed all the written rules like a 66% vote etc. Same thing with a retirement community who slaps a regulation in to prevent grandkids from visiting because they are noisy (which was, IIRC, an actual HOA change that due to local media involvement got dropped)

I think banning any non-criminal, non-disruptive action that takes place within the home by an HOA violates the unwritten rule of 'foreseeable and reasonable' This goes double if it involves an 'inalienable right'
 
What would be the benefit of belonging to an HOA?

And yes, that is a serious question...I'm just a dumb ole hillbilly who lives up in the hills and I don't understand the concept of a "homeowners association".
 
If I stop, the MOST you can do is demand my $100 back

Actually he could get more if it cost more than $100 to get someone else to finish the work.

If a volcano started venting noxious gasses all summer long and people were advised to stay indoors as much as possible, our contract would be null and void. If gas prices skyrocket to $100 a gallon, our contract would be null and void.

Probably not in these cases actually.

Why people live in HOA neighborhoods is beyond me. It's the same as moving in to a neighborhood with a huge bully but I guess assuming the bully will only bother other people.

What would be the benefit of belonging to an HOA?

You can have yet another group of people telling you how to live your life. And the monthly dues around here are usually $25-$40. Wonderful, no?
 
^^Ridgerunner,

The main benefit, according to those who like them, is that they act as a protector of property values in the area.

They give the neighborhood, as a whole, an enforcement arm against people who do things that make the neighborhood less attractive to live in. If your neighbor lets his grass grow, his dogs bark, or parks ugly cars on his lawn, you have a method to stop him.

I'll never live in any HOA for any reason, at any time, but that's the main argument for it.
 
OK...I just looked it up.

Basically, its an organization where you sign away some of your freedom to save some money.

I'll stay poor and free...


I don't have any neighbors...but if I did the LAST thing I'd ever do was tell him what he could do on his own property, I don't care if he mowed the lawn nekkid.
 
They give the neighborhood, as a whole, an enforcement arm against people who do things that make the neighborhood less attractive to live in. If your neighbor lets his grass grow, his dogs bark, or parks ugly cars on his lawn, you have a method to stop him.

The in our city, city ordinances cover all this stuff anyway. I think HOAs are more about controlling the color you can paint your house, can you park in the front of your house, what kind of fence you can have and what color you can stain it, ect. One HOA around here made the news because they banned some guys USA made automobile from being parked in front of his house because it wasn't "expensive" enough. I kid you not.
 
I've lived under two different home owners associations, and I will NEVER do it again. sure they make sure your neighbors mow their laws, but they also do stupid things like tell me I can't store some boxes under my car port for a couple weeks until I find someplace better to put it. They give you a couple of benefits (the last one I lived under mowed the lawns and fixed the fences, etc), in exchange for having to deal with a long list of additional rules that cover everything from what color you can paint your house to how many days you can have a yard sale (they once gave me a "ticket" for having a yard sale three days in a row on a long weekend when their rules say that you can only do it for two days every six months).

I'm tired of rules. There are so many layers it is literally impossible to keep it all straight. Federal, state, county, municipal, HOA, and now they're proposing world government.

Just not worth it.
 
"It's pretty unambiguous that not every rule change requires a vote of the homeowners of Falcon Pointe Community Association, Inc. An HOA that requires a general election for every rule change is rare."

And,

"5. Is there any other requirement that must be met before we can discuss this topic?"

Answer: You say it's not ambiguous, and thus the HOA can do what it did. So, what's to discuss? All you can do is vent about the unfairness of a done deal--and that, basically, is a political viewpoint.

About all I see that could be helpful is some legislative change as to the requirements for HOAs to amend their rules--which goes far beyond any firearms issues. Even this particular thread is not really about firearms as firearms; it's about the ability of the HOA to change the rules for whatever reason.
 
You say it's not ambiguous, and thus the HOA can do what it did. So, what's to discuss?

Because it is perfectly legal for an HOA corporation to ban guns at home, without any type of due process, there is nothing to discuss?!

To say that I'm shocked is an understatement.


Even this particular thread is not really about firearms as firearms; it's about the ability of the HOA to change the rules for whatever reason.

The previous thread, "Can HOAs Ban Guns?" was most certainly about a legal issue related to firearms. However, it was locked because you didn't know if the HOA corporation in question could change its rules without homeowner approval.

This thread is the evidence you required. If it seems to be going a bit off-track, it is because you locked the original thread and requested this one.

If you think a discussion about whether a private corporation can regulate your gun rights within your house belongs in a forum other than "Legal", please feel free to unlock the original thread and move it (along with this one) to the appropriate section of this site.
 
About all I see that could be helpful is some legislative change as to the requirements for HOAs to amend their rules--which goes far beyond any firearms issues.

Best way to deal with HOA's, IMO is to boycott them! If the whole idea is to protect property values, if enough people simply refuse to buy a house with a HOA attached, that will go out the window.

Sadly, I doubt enough people will. Too many Americans are willing to let someone else tell them how to live in exchange for not having "weird" neighbors.

As far as the situation of the FFL is concerned, couldn't he claim a grandfather clause or some kind of victimization? Seems like he was singled out by this rule, ought to be something out there already that can help this guy.
 
Most HOA prohibit the operation of a =commercial= enterprise from a home within the HOA, as do many local zoning codes.

They are not saying he can't own guns, they are saying he can't run a retail business out of his residence. Very common in many many residential areas, HOA or not. The firearms thing, although specifically mentioned, likely had little to do with it. They wouldn't let him run an auto parts store either.
 
There's a line of cases involving similar issues of HOA's creating CC&R's banning blacks from living in the neighborhood. The short answer is, such covenants are DEAD LETTER and cannot be enforced because enforcement requires some level of judicial enforcement, which in turn violates the 14th Amendment. In this case if there's a total ban on ownership, a strong argument could be made that the clause cannot be enforced.

However, in this case the ban appears to be on the business of selling firearms. That's another matter entirely.
 
Did Shelley v. Kraemer address the Second Amendment, or just the 14th in regard to race-restrictive covenants?

The Supreme Court ruled that such race-restrictive covenants are unenforceable, not that they are invalid. This is why such covenants still exist, even though they cannot be legally enforced.

See here and here.
 
Why anyone would buy a home under HOA control is beyond me.

In some parts of the country it's very hard to find a decent home in a neighborhood that's not under an HOA. Many areas have essentially no neighborhoods under 20 years old that are free of them. And since most people don't want to live on large acreage out in the country that really limits the choices for avoiding HOA's in certain areas.

We're in the process of buying a house that's under an HOA. I'm not thrilled about that, but I've yet to find a home that meets our desires that's not. And this is not typical suburbia. Nearly 5 acre lots, and in red-neckville WA. That said, the rules are pretty loose, and fees are only $100/year (that covers maintenance on the retention ponds and similar things). Livestock is allowed except for pigs. Outbuildings are supposed to match the color/design of the main house. There are height restrictions (42"??) for fences except for garden areas where there's no height limit. That's to keep from interfering with the movement of the elk herd. No restrictions on gun ownership, or reloading or anything else. Gunfire is prohibited but I'm OK with that (except for SD of course). It's 5 acres, not 500, and it's flat enough that there's really no backstops - even a .22lr can still be deadly after crossing several boundaries. If I remember right I could hunt elk on the property but it would have to be archery. 'Course it's around 0.1% draw odds to get a tag for that GMU anyway.
 
In some parts of the country it's very hard to find a decent home in a neighborhood that's not under an HOA. Many areas have essentially no neighborhoods under 20 years old that are free of them.


The following from Evan McKenzie's FAQ sums it up (Professor McKenzie used to be an HOA lawyer):


How do cities mandate or require community associations?

Many cities require that all new construction must be in CIDs. They do this in several ways, but the most common takes advantage of PUD zoning. Cities have planned unit development zones where housing is exempt from setback and other density requirements. Developers want access to PUD zones to obtain higher density and thus higher profits. So, the City requires all development in PUD zones to have certain features (open spaces, landscape vegetation, perimeter walls). They, the City requires that there must be an entity to maintain features in perpetuity. HOAs are the recommended option.

Result: the City in effect mandates HOAs in all new construction within PUD zone.


Instead of being some type of civic club for homeowners, HOAs are corporations created by and for the developers before the first homeowner -- who is forever bound by the corporation's governing documents -- has moved in or has any input into those governing documents.

Over time, those governing documents have become standard boilerplate, written by HOA attorneys (for their benefit, of course):

Consumers find their choices constrained in many ways. Although there is great variation in architectural features among CIDS, there is much less variation in many of the basic terms of governing documents, which tend to be standardized by the legal profession and the mortgage insurance industry. Leading community association lawyer Wayne Hyatt has criticized the “legal inertia” and “reliance upon forms” that produce this standardization (1998, 336). Even where variation among CID regimes does exist, the ability to make informed choices is reduced by the standard practice of encumbering each unit with voluminous sets of governing documents drafted in legalese, instead of simple guidelines written in plain English. Many provisions are incomprehensible except to an attorney—and a specialist at that.

...

Choice is further restricted because in the most CID-heavy areas, some governments virtually or literally mandate CIDs in new housing. This reduces or eliminates the ability of consumers to express a preference for CID versus non-CID units at a given price

-Evan McKenzie
"Common-Interest Housing in the Communities of Tomorrow" (PDF)
2003

The entire paper is 32 pages long. The section on "Real-world CIDs versus the Tiebout model" of Rational Choice Theory should be read by every libertarian-minded person.


As "The Myth of Privatopia" explains it:

What's more ominous, now that more than 80 percent of new housing in the country is being built within CIDs, is the professional industries that have grown around them -- complete with their own lobbying groups -- eager to make sure government oversight remains at a minimum.

...

To help me understand how homeowners associations have evolved, McKenzie offers a thumbnail history. "The original reason for all HOAs was to enforce race-restrictive covenants," he says, explaining that such organizations predate the invention of the CID, with its shared responsibility to maintain property. "But in the 1960s and '70s, as land prices were getting more expensive, developers started creating [CIDs] in order to create more density and therefore increase profitability."

In devising CIDs, developers managed to build more houses on less land -- avoiding local density codes -- through creation of "private communities" with their own roads and utilities infrastructure. "They build a shared infrastructure with common utility lines so the physical infrastructure is a lot cheaper," explains McKenzie. "Then they build private streets, which are very narrow and not as deep, so they're cheaper streets. So they need a lot of repairs."

But who will take care of the infrastructure and the roads? Not the city, of course, because these are private communities. Instead, the HOA, run by volunteer homeowners with help from profession property managers and lawyers, must levy assessments from homeowners to pay for the cost of maintaining the property. With such an arrangement, developers get the best of both worlds: an escape from city planning ordinances that restrict their profits, and an entity that inherits the results of their cost cutting.

...

With these conditions, why do Americans keep flocking to CIDs? In part, it's because if you want a new home, there is little else to choose from. But it's also because these developments offer a taste of the American dream that's ideal for a fraction of the cost of a discrete single-family home. "Instead of everyone getting a big yard with a swimming pool, developers figured out how to do the same thing," explains McKenzie. "They build amenity-rich developments with golf courses, swimming pools, game rooms -- all exclusively for the homeowners."

These features, says McKenzie, offer the promise of class and racial exclusivity without breaking antidiscriminatory fair-housing laws.

"They can still sell exclusion without being formally racially exclusive," he says. "It's become an important marketing feature for a very lucrative form of housing."

The problems in these private communities tend to erupt a few years down the line, though, after the developers have sold off the last of the houses and the HOA has taken over. Once the statute of limitations for suing the developer -- usually one to three years -- has expired, the association is on its own. Suddenly, roofs begin to leak, streets break down and the HOA realizes it needs to begin serious repairs.

"When the developers leave, the incoming association directors often find that they're 'underreserved'," says McKenzie. "The developers have almost always set the fees too low -- they set them low to sell homes -- so the HOA begins raising fees. And sometimes the assessments are huge -- $600 a month."

At other times, an expense is so big and so urgent that the HOA must levy a "special assessment" to pay for a new roof or a rotting deck. "So the board votes for a special assessment of, say, $10,000 [per homeowner]. And if you can't pay, they'll slap a lien on your home. The HOA has a fiduciary duty to maintain the property."

Why would cities allow developers to circumvent planning ordinances and create communities that may not be up to the task of maintaining their own infrastructure?

"The cities get something for nothing," says McKenzie. "They still get the property taxes without building or maintaining the infrastructure, the pipes, the streets, the parks. Essentially, it's a form of double taxation." Although New Jersey recently passed a law compelling cities to provide homeowners in private communities with a snow-removal and leaf-removal rebate (since they don't use those city services), most states have been slow to enact legislation acknowledging the double-taxation issue.

Far from being a result of a free-market, ]the growth of HOAs have been supply driven by the government and developers, leaving consumers with fewer choices.

If I was an anti-gun politician (or political party or special interest), I would be looking into using HOAs as a method to enforce gun controls that would be unconstitutional for governments to enact. Because Libertarians and Republicans tend to support HOAs, such a tactic (see the other thread on this subject) could be frighteningly effective.
 
Last edited:
This is really a court issue.

I'll add my two cents based on my experience and knowledge of what is permissible by HOA. Again, its a court matter at this point.

An HOA can ban home based businesses. The most prevelant position they take is that it affects parking.

But... when challanged, it seems to usually end up being zoning laws. The condo's are usually built in an area zoned for Residential; not commercial, not industrial.

The HOA has every right to keep consistant with zoning laws.

Even if there wasnt a HOA, chances are that he has to file for permit to run a business out of his house in a residential area. Rarely done and rarely enforced.

While restrictive, HOA do have up sides if you're willing to accept the downsides.

Having lived in a Townhouse complex with an HOA and my front door being about 25 ft from both of my neighbors front doors, I could honestly say I wouldnt want any home based businesses that may get 30-50 people a day into each house. I don want to live in a small strip mall hence the reason I chose a residential area to live in.


Having said that, if it was a mail order business with no foot traffic, I have no complaints as long as UPS etc wasnt showing up 100 times a day.
 
The HOA has every right to keep consistant with zoning laws.

From the information in the stories, the HOA corporation is being more restrictive than the zoning laws.

If it was a zoning issue, the municipality would be dealing with it.

Getting the proper zoning permits from the municipality has been a requirement for an FFL since 1993 or 1994 (which is why I did not renew mine when it expired in the mid-1990s). As most people here know, this was part of an effort by the Clinton administration to drive 70% of FFLs out of business. I guess if a private corporation does it -- which is what HOAs are -- it's OK.

Since Andrew Clements was able to obtain the "right permits from the federal government," I am going to presume that he is abiding by zoning regulations, unless evidence is presented otherwise.

If so, this certainly disproves the assertion made elsewhere that HOA regulations cannot be more strict than federal, state, or local law. If you think about it for two seconds, that notion is silly anyway; HOAs can't permit activities that are forbidden by law. If so, I'd start my own HOA where machine guns, gambling, and hookers are legal.

If HOAs couldn't be more restrictive than the law, HOAs would serve no purpose (at least in the case of single-family housing).
 
Last edited:
1) From the information in the stories, the HOA corporation is being more restrictive than the zoning laws.

2) If it was a zoning issue, the municipality would be dealing with it.


3) If so, this certainly disproves the assertion made elsewhere that HOA regulations cannot be more strict than federal, state, or local law.

4) HOAs can't permit activities that are forbidden by law. If so, I'd start my own HOA where machine guns, gambling, and hookers are legal.

5) If HOAs couldn't be more restrictive than the law, there would be no need for HOAs.

1) HOA's can be more restrictive than zoning laws as defined in the CC&Rs and voted by the collective owners.

2) Not neccessarily. They dont usually do anything until someone prompts them to.

3) Exactly, they can be more restrictive.

4) And this is the notion behind it. They cant permit activities forbidden by law. Stripping away rights is forbidden by law. Not allowing a business in a residential area is not forbidden by law, thereby they can do it.

5) Pretty much nailed that one. Oh, the HOA's also give the buttinsky neighbors something to do. ;)
 
Because it is perfectly legal for an HOA corporation to ban guns at home, without any type of due process, there is nothing to discuss?!

Wait a second, you're saying two different things. This is the covenant, as you presented it:

But none of that seems to protect him from the Falcon Point HOA which has passed a rule specifically prohibiting residents from buying and selling firearms in the neighborhood

This is not a ban on firearms, but a restriction on transactions involving firearms. Such a restriction would be as enforceable as a restriction banning garage sales.
 
Stripping away rights is forbidden by law.

Cite me a law, cite me a regulation, cite me a court ruling, that prohibits HOA corporations from banning guns in their privatized common interest communities.
 
Here is some more information on the original story in question, to meet some of Art's requirements.

It turns out that the guy had been operating another home based business for 7 years, without any objection.


http://pflugervillepflag.com/2010/05/26/hoa-covenant-takes-aim-at-resident’s-weapons-business/ (emphasis added)

Business / News
HOA covenant takes aim at resident’s weapons business
Wednesday, May 26, 2010 | James Rincon

A Pflugerville homeowners association approved an amendment that has at least one resident up in arms.

Andrew Clements has lived in Pflugerville for seven years operating an at-home business within the structured serenity of the Falcon Pointe planned community. Earlier this month Clements took steps to start a second business from his home selling guns online, but the HOA won’t let him pull the trigger.

“The HOA went out of their way to file an extra covenant to say I can’t have that type of business, but any other business is OK,” Clements said. “They don’t have a problem with all the Avon, Advocare, insurance people, but they’re going to be bias to a guy because they don’t like firearms.”

The Falcon Pointe board, managed by Realmanage property management company, amended its declaration of protective covenants by adding Section 12.24.2, which states:

“The business activity does not consist of the sale of fireworks, incendiary devices or material, firearm ammunition, or firearms, including but not limited to firearms of a size which may be concealed on the person, shotguns, rifles and semi-automatic weapons.”

Clements said the HOA’s actions came after he filed applications with all necessary local, state and federal regulatory bodies, and was waiting on approval from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

And avid hunter and gun collector, Clements said it wasn’t until he asked ATF officials about what additional requirements exist to sell National Firearms Act firearms that the HOA became gun-shy.

“I asked the ATF guy what if I want to deal in things like machine guns, short barrels, suppressers for the police and the sheriffs, because they have it for the S.W.A.T. team,” Clements said. “I only applied for normal license. I never filed paperwork about NFA weapons.”

The HOA board approved its amendment May 13, shortly after Clements’ NFA inquiry.

“Number one, it’s discriminatory, number two it’s unconstitutional in my opinion,” Clements said.

Falcon Pointe issued a statement standing by its action.

“Falcon Pointe Community Association, Inc. is the homeowners association for the Falcon Pointe community in Pflugerville, Texas. The Association is committed to the safety and well-being of the residents within Falcon Pointe and to preserving home values and quality community living within the neighborhood. Recently, the Association enacted a prohibition against operating a home based firearms sales business. The Association made such decision in the best interest of the residents in the neighborhood and the entire Falcon Pointe community. The Association stands by its decision and will continue to uphold its commitment to serving the needs and interests of the residents within Falcon Pointe.”

It's interesting that the board, managed by professional management company, was able to amend the "declaration of protective covenants" without a vote of the homeowners.
 
Last edited:
The title of your thread is deceptive. In no way are they trying to ban guns and that's what you were trying to portray to get our hackles up. It didn't work the first time and your thread got closed. Now you're trying it again. Don't count on this one being open much longer either.
 
“The business activity does not consist of the sale of fireworks, incendiary devices or material, firearm ammunition, or firearms, including but not limited to firearms of a size which may be concealed on the person, shotguns, rifles and semi-automatic weapons.”

... which is not an attempt to "ban guns" as your title suggests. It's a restriction against the business activity of buying and selling firearms along with fireworks. I see no problem with it whatsoever. CC&R's almost always restrict or outright forbid all sorts of business activity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top