+P or not +P

Well, you've identified the obvious reason behind using +P ammunition, which is to maximize a cartridges effectiveness (muzzle velocity or overal muzzle energy). So there are definitely things to be aware of when choosing whether or not to use it.

The first things I would consider are:
a) Is my gun built to handle +P ammunition? I'm not too familiar with P-11's, so I can't speak to that.
b) Can I comfortably handle +P ammunition without sacrificing my own performance in a situation that calls upon it?


I don't shoot 9mm myself, so I won't speak to specifics, but I do think you'll find there are many adequate non +P self defense cartridges out there. I think you're correct in concluding that shot placement is the key element. However "powerful" the round might me, it's worthless if you can't shoot it well.

As for the 147 gr bullets feeding in that gun; again, I don't shoot 9mm and I'm not familiar with the P-11, but in my experience with automatics, the thing that's usually going to hinder feeding would be bullet shape first, followed by OAL. Maybe there are 147 gr loads out there that offer a deeper bullet seating for a shorter OAL? <shrug>

It's about what you can shoot comfortably, while the gun can handle it, can you? the extra power makes it more likely to limpwrist and have other firing issues, I have a P40, so yes I know what I'm talking about, I have no problem with a P11, but with heavy .40 I end up with a FTE on the second or 3rd round of a 3 shot string.

At the range you are going to use the gun, focus on reliability and accuracy, it's more power in a smaller package than almost any other gun out there, better to shoot an extra 5 times than miss 11.

I can tell you that you won't want to practice with +p, normal 9 hurts enough, and .40 feels like you ran over your hand with a dump truck the next day, take that into consideration.

I have a KelTec P11 and I keep mine loaded with..

non +P ammo. The +P loads do recoil much more and in such a light weight gun it is more difficult to control. I don't feel I need +P in a 9mm because the new ammo that is out today gives excellent expansion and penetration without it in this caliber.

I only use Remington Golden Saber + P 124 gr. for my carry load in my P11. Never had a feeding issue and they aren't to pricey.
YMMV

Well my Walther PPS is loaded with Corbon 115Gr +P JHP bullets and the first round is the most important and I want to reach the CNS with it. Sure I also want to be ready to dump two more follow ups into the threat if it didn't stop it right there. I also keep my Glock 30 loaded with +P bullets as well. Can never be too much power to stop a threat right. I don't practice much at all with the +P bullets because they are for defense only and I can get enough practice with the FMJ bullets.

The snappier recoil generated by +P may help cycle the action if you don't have your wrst locked for whatever reason.

Function / reliabi;ity is the most important, after that is established I prefer the extra power afforded by a +P in 9mm.

not a big deal in 9mm

You need to look at the velocity differences out of the barrel length you are carrying. You will probably find there are negligible differences in velocity from the short barrel of the P11.

If the velocities are very close, you are not going to get better stopping power. All you will get is more flash and bang.

CDW
NO
look up limpwristing
what happens is that your wrist flexes to absorb the recoil, robbing the slide of power, the heavier the round, the easier the gun overcomes bad posture.

Now google the KT
or go to KTOG.org and search limpwristing, see it's really a problem with this gun, as it's so lightweight that it has no mass to absorb that energy and it all get passed to the web of your hand, if your wrist bends, the gun fails to eject, or fails to load.

I have heard that P-11s do not feed 147 gr bullets reliably, due to OAL issues

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I have the single stack cousin (PF-9) to your P11. I load mine with Federal HST 147gr JHP's. Mine is very reliable and accurate with 147gr ammo. I would buy a box or two of inexpensive (fiocchi, wolf or magtech) 147gr JHP's and see how they function in your P11. If it works fine, then spend the extra $$$ of a couple hundred rounds of premium (HST, winchester ranger or speer gold dots) 147gr ammo to function test it in your gun before you carry it.

I haven't had any problems with the 147 gr in my P-11. At the range I'll shoot a mix of 115, 124 and 147 usually for a total of about 100 rounds, then load the mag with the 147's for the trip home.

My gun functions fine with all bullet weights and I haven't found a brand that causes problems yet.

Mayby I lucked out and just got an exceptional one but thats not the way my luck usually goes.

Basically what's been said already....+p is going to be rather abusive, and not much of a gain if any.

I have a sccy (same weight, approzimate ergonomics and similar design to a P11) and it's painful enough to shoot blazer through it....+p would just make me not want to practice.

Look in the manual to see if the manufacturer says "OK with +P" or not. For example, Glocks can shoot +P exclusively with no problems whatsoever, because they were designed to handle the hottest 9mm NATO loads. Not sure about the Kel-Tec, but the manual should say yea or nay on it.

You need to look at the velocity differences out of the barrel length you are carrying. You will probably find there are negligible differences in velocity from the short barrel of the P11.

If the velocities are very close, you are not going to get better stopping power. All you will get is more flash and bang.

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It does depend on the load and what powder they use, but there are +P rounds out there that do better from short barrels than standard-pressure loads. For example, compare Cor-Bon 125gr JHP +P to Federal 124gr Hydra-Shok; out of a 3" barrel, the Cor-Bon is going 1170 fps from a 3" barrel, the Federal is going 988 fps.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html

One load I would like to try in my 3.5" 9mm is Speer's relatively new Gold Dot Short Barrel +P loadings. They supposedly use faster burning powders for better velocity and less flash in short barreled pistols.

should I remind people that said gun is 14oz??

think ball peen hammer
every time you pull the trigger
how heavy the blow depends, but not comfortable

benEzra just wanted to say thanks for posting that link showing the many different loadings and their performance. Some great information there!

I shoot Doubletap's 147g +p loads out of my PF9, the feed perfectly and, even though it sounds crazy, I dont really feel a whole lot of diffrence in recoil compaired to WWB ammo.
I feel the +p aspect will aid in building up some velocy from the short barrel and give the 147 gold dots an even better chance of expanding.

I personally don't use +P ammo in my semi-autos as I don't really see a need for it. However, in my GP100 with the 6 inch barrel, I'll use the .38 Special +P ammo. Go figure, right?

Shadow 7D:
CDW
NO
look up limpwristing
what happens is that your wrist flexes to absorb the recoil, robbing the slide of power, the heavier the round, the easier the gun overcomes bad posture.

I never mentioned bullet weight.

I don't have to look up anything . In either Street Stoppers or Stopping Power they discuss 9mm ammo and one of the benefits of +P was cycling the pistol even if the shooter didn't lock their wrist (not necessarly in practice, but in a SD situation).

I shoot +P and +P+ in a 16 oz. (including magazine) Kahr PM9. It works fine, no malfunctions. I put the same ammo in my wife's P9 and her pistol is also 100% reliable.

OP can use whatever they want, asked for input and I gave mine.

a) Is my gun built to handle +P ammunition? I'm not too familiar with P-11's, so I can't speak to that.

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They are.

b) Can I comfortably handle +P ammunition without sacrificing my own performance in a situation that calls upon it?

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That is the important question. As mentioned, the +P loads will not benefit as much in the 3" tube of the P11, so mostly you're just tolerating more abuse in an already very snappy gun.

I've run +P in my PF-9, but after testing in clay, decided to stick with standard pressure 115 or 124 gr. HP's. They're less abusive and, for all intents and purposes, just as effective from the short tube.

In full size guns with 4"-5" barrels, the +P loads shine, nipping at the heels of .357 Sig. But if I'm gonna carry a gun bigger than my PF-9, it'll be a .45 or 10mm.

I use +P in my XD sub9c because of the 3" barrel, if you chrono you'll see it reachs the normal fps for a 5" barell.

+p ammo has exceptional expansion and accuracy, the penetration is average but the wound channel will be devastating.

The way I see it right now is:
Pros of +P:
- more powerful
- more reliable expansion (?)
- better penetration (?)

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Not so fast! The assumption is that operating at higher pressure will give you increased velocity and hence greater power. That is not necessarily the case. Lots of studies show that the increased pressure does not lead to increrased velocity on all guns.

I have done a lot of chronograph studies on 9 mm pistols and a variety of +P ammo types. In most cases there was not statistically significant rises in velocity and in a number of cases there was absolutely no increase in velocity at all.

So, while I got the increased pressure (and the increased wear and tear on the gun) it did not turn into increased bullet velocity.

It would appear that the increased expectations of higher energy/velocity are highly gun specific and shoud be checked out first.