Lightweight 9mm's ?

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Ak Guy

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I'm looking for the lightest & smallest 9mm available today, for use as a pocket CCW. The Kahr PM9 seems like a good candidate. (I will not consider Kel-Tec, ie = POS). Do you know of a lighter 9 than the PM9? What are your thoughts about the PM9's reliability? ........Thanx.......
 
The Walther PPS 9mm is nice too. Slightly larger than the Kahr, I believe, but a very nice pistol for CC.


-Matt
 
I love the G26 but I don't consider it a pocket gun.

The two big players in the pocket sized guns in 9x19 are the PM9 and the Rorhbaugh.

Rorhbaugh R9:

Caliber:9mm

Barrel:2.9in

Length:5.2in

Height:3.7in

Weight:13.5oz w/o mag (mag = 1.6 oz)

Magazine Capacity:6 Rounds

Price: Roughly $1200

Kahr PM9

Caliber:9mm

Barrel:3"

Length:5.3"

Height:4"

Weight:14 oz w/ out mag (mag= 1.9 oz)

Magazine Capacity:6 Rounds (7 w/ extension)

Price Roughly $650


I'd likely get the kahr between the two of them. Size difference is fairly small. The Kahr has a lower bore axis for greater control and faster followups. It has a mag release where my other defensive pistols have it. It has a slide stop (useful not only knowing you've run dry but very useful for clearing certain malfunctions). The R9 is fairly ammo sensitive (it light strikes hard primers). The Kahr can handle +p ammo (whether it offers an advantage or is what you want to run is a separate discussion). One can also get a larger Kahr (perhaps as a primary) and have commonality.


F219.JPG
 
You probably won't want to hear this, but the nicest shooting of the pocketable 9's is the Taurus PT-709. By far. Soaks up recoil the best, has the nicest trigger. I figure you'll write off Taurus as crap like you did Kel-Tec though ;)
 
Thanx for the good responses! Good info. For the diff $$$$ I'll probably go w/ the PM9. (I'm not anti -Taurus, but would not choose the 709 due to DA/SA and greater weight).
 
Thanx for the good responses! Good info. For the diff $$$$ I'll probably go w/ the PM9. (I'm not anti -Taurus, but would not choose the 709 due to DA/SA and greater weight).
Click to expand...

The 709 isn't DA/SA like you're thinking. It's effectively always SA unless you have a failure to fire, in which case it will revert to DA and you can try again. It does have a trigger safety like a glock, and a firing pin block, so you don't have to carry it with the manual safety on if you have a holster that covers the trigger.
 
My "POS" PF9 has nearly 700 rounds through it with nary a problem. Since you have a prejudice against the lowly Kel-Tec, I wouldn't be afraid of the Kahr or the Walther mentioned above.

With that said, my Kahr (and most Kahrs, from what I've read and heard) are VERY stiff out of the box. Plan on running about 400 rounds through it to loosen it up good.

I have no experience with the Taurus. It could be a fine weapon but I'm very happy with my Kahr and would gladly own a Walther PPS.

FWIW, here's a comparison of the PF9 to the PM9: http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Kel-Tec-PF9-Kahr-PM9-t25301.html

My Kahr is a CW40 so not a direct comparison to my PF9 but I'd be happy to compare the two if you want.
 
My PF9, with almost 2000 rounds of Gold Dot 124 through it without a single failure, is offended by your comment on it's being a POS.

No...too late to apologize, it has a long memory and likes to hold a grudge.
 
(I will not consider Kel-Tec, ie = POS)
Click to expand...

That's seriously ignorant. What would you have to lose by giving it a fair shot and seeing how it compares rather than dismiss it from the get-go.
 
I regularly carry the Kahr PM9 in my pocket as long as the pants are loose enough. I prefer to carry it in a Crossbreed Mini-Tuck if I can conceal it.
 
I carry my Kahr PM-9 is a Mikva pocket holster. The gun has been totally reliable and surprisingly accurate for such a short barreled pistol. I can easilly place 7 shots within a 3 inch group at 7 to 10 yards.
 
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OK, OK, ALREADY.....I didn't want to bore everyone w/ my Kel-Tec story, but if you insist........

My first (and last) Kel-Tec was a P-3AT a few years ago. Pretty soon (maybe 50 rnds or so) the cross-bolt pin / dissassembly pin worked it's way loose and the frame got all chewed up by the slide. So I sent it back to Kel-Tec and they put a new frame under it, with the same identical pin and same design. So I shot it some more, and paid close attention to the pin, and it kept working it's way out, but I'd catch it before it tore up the frame, and I'd push it back in. I got on KTOG (owner's forum) and found out LOTS of folks had the same problem !! But there was a "fix" which was for the owner to cut a deeper groove in the pin so the detent spring would actually hold it in place. Did that. Of course then the pin broke. Explained all this to Kel-Tec, and they sent me a new pin, which was IDENTICAL to all the previous pins, and yes, it still works it's way out.

Therefore, I'm not a Kel-Tec fan, because this is a VERY poor design, and Kel-Tec seems to have no plan (or desire) to correct it. As far as I can tell, their solution seems to be "Keep an eye on it, and push it back in when it starts to come out". That's unacceptable to me, and consequently I won't be buying any more Kel-Tec products. (Yes, I knew it was a cheapo-plastic-$200 thing when I bought it, and it's proved itself out to be just that...... and no, I don't want any more of them).

To the offended Kel-Tec owners.......sorry.....I didn't intend to slam you or your working guns. I hope you (and them) live happily ever after........


ps......I was just about to hit the "BUY" button at Bud's Gun Shop for a PM9 for $625 shipped, when they went "Out Of Stock"..... Anyone got a source that's better or equal?
 
That Pocket NIne is beautiful.
Click to expand...

I wish they could have kept making them. I wish even more I would have picked one up when they did make them (at least I had the good sense to get a mustang, but if I could go back I'd buy a few more, couple ponies, and a couple pocket nines). They command a pretty good price now. I still wouldn't mind picking one up but the PM9 may be a more practical choice for a daily carry gun.
 
Then again, if you would consider the lowly, (but not POS), 9mm kurz caliber, you could always buy a TRUE pocket gun - the Seecamp LWS380.

4526835871_8fd6791590_o.jpg
 
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/\ Great pics, thanks! I was at Cabela's yesterday feeling out the PT709 and the TCP. I'm going to go with the 709 after spending some time comparing 9mm vs 380 ballistics reports.
 
I had the TCP and really loved it, but in the end, I opted to stay with the 9mm and up. Due to cost of ammo, and better ballistics, and didn't sacrifice concealability too much.
 
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