Range incident - opinions wanted

"That seemed to be the end of it, and during another break I wandered over to the stall "Jim" was using. "Joe" approached, and asked the man about the woman he was shooting with. "Oh, that's my ** yr old daughter"
"Oh, she's not under 21? Good for her, looking so much younger then her age." "Joe" replied. "Well, then, according to NY State law she shouldn't be shooting your guns." Joe added."

If I'm reading this right, Joe asks the age of Jim's daughter. Jim says something to the effect that she is over 21 years old. Then Joe state's she looks younger than her age, then goes on about how the law says Jims daughter shouldn't be allowed to shoot {as if Joe didn't hear the part about her being over 21}.

Now to me it would seem that Joe just called Jim a liar.{I didn't read where the girls age was verified or not}.......which would make me mad as well.

Unsupervised range, not stepping away from the firing line when people are forward of it. It is everybody's right to keep from getting shot.

I don't think it's my responsibility to enforce unreasonable or unconstitutional gun laws. I don't care what you roll up next to me shooting...I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and leave law enforcement to those who are paid to do so.

Do as you will at the range, as long as you're being safe.

Unchecked profanity is the sign of a small mind, in my opinion, so my impression of Jim follows that belief.

Joe is a unique kind of irritant...the one so mild that any resistance to his interference comes off as rude or reactionary. Obviously Jim was out of line.

I wouldn't want to be around either. Fortunately there's only one busybody at my range, and he's an RSO who actively seeks any opportunity to call somebody out, even when no violation is observed. I just ignore him, mostly.

Joe's are also very prevalent at car shows.

I know that I am young, but I hope I can still contribute to these discussions. Since I became a gun owner, I have become extremely non-confrontational. I will still stand up for what I believe in, but in a calm manner, or else I will walk away and deal with it later. There are disagreements all the time, and I think the man who keeps his head cooler usually ends up with the upper hand. Obviously, if guns are involved, that just ups the ante of the whole situation. I personally would not antagonize anybody at a gun range, in the interest of self-preservation.

OP is right, both at fault. I always say the proper range courtesy is mind your own business unless they are doing something crazy unsafe, such as muzzle sweeping people, being unsafe while people are changing targets, ect.
Jim needs to chill out, Joe needs to shoot more, talk less.
Also: if the girl is actually over 21, why did Jim flip out? or am i reading it wrong?

yeah, i understand about saying something about a safety violation. But anything else, people just need to left alone, live and let live so the other guy can have some fun with his guest (who happened to be his daughter).

Joe needs a tall glass of ST*U and Jim needs to take a chill pill.

I think Joe needs to mind his own business.

Edited to add: and I don't care how old Joe is.

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Feel the same way.

They closed the range where I used to shoot, so I found another. When I paid my money and was speaking to the cashier, I asked him if there were any special range rules I needed to be aware of. He said no, just the usual, and that they were safety oriented. I said "Good, then basically don't do nuthing stupid". He laughed and said right.

I go to the range and started shooting and after a while they called a halt so folks could go down range. Almost everyone went down range, but I didn't need to, so I opened the bolt to my Mauser stood up and looked around. A guy started talking to me and I responded. Since people were milling around I put my hand on the open received so I'd know if someone was messing with the rifle while my back was turned as I talked. This was the preferred method at my previous range. At the new place, one was supposed to step three feet back and not touch a gun, but I didn't know that. I had asked.

I had my ear plugs in and couldn't hear anyone more than a few feet away. Finally I hear someone yelling and I turn to see ths other shooter that was red-faced screaming and swearing at me. The range master was also looking at me, but was upset at both of us and confused at what to do. I removed an ear plug so I could hear what was going and the guy screamed you blankety-blank get your #$%%^& hand off that gun! Don't you know the *&^%%$# rules!?!?!?!

Remainig calm I stepped away and said sorry, I in fact didn't know the rule against that, and would stay away from the rifle. He continued to scream about getting me kicked off the range and banned from the facility, but I said nothing and just leaned up against the table and relaxed while the range master told him to resume his position. No one else said anything, and I was the last one to my position when the range went hot just so the range master could see that I was trying to cooperate. The guy kept looking aver at me and glaring for another 30 mins as my son told me, but I never looked his way or said anything.

Now, I could have gotten into an argueent for his graceless action and foul mouth, but I was new at the range and don't like negative incidents anyway. The guy finally left, and as I was leaving I asked the range master for a list of the rules. He smiled and handed it over. The only one I hadn't obeyed was the hands off rule when all were down range. I know better now, and I've never seen the guy there again. Everyone there seem to be a great bunch of guys and there have been no problems fitting in. If I'd have reacted in a negative manner, then that might not have been the case.

jim

Fremmer said:

I think Joe needs to mind his own business.

Edited to add: and I don't care how old Joe is.

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I'm a bit of an old fart myself and I've learned,over the years, that few people appreciate anybody of ANY age just walk'n up and stick'n his/her nose into his/her business.

This was what I was referring to as a safety violation.

Note that we have a rule here that I'm sure a lot of ranges have, as well - when people go out and change/setup/break down targets, everyone steps back from the firing line and no weapons are handled.

"Jim" seemed like a perfectly fine fellow at first. When I greeted him during target setup, we talked about the guns we brought with us. Everything seemed OK with the guy, although he answered my questions with a slightly unusual degree of zeal.

Once our targets were set, we took up our guns and shot them. During another break, I heard "Jim" say something like, "OKAY! I Got IT!" when "Joe" most likely reminded him about the "step away" rule.

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Does it make it a little clearer now?

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From this quote alone we really don't know exactly what Joe was saying to Jim when Jim said "OKAY! I Got IT!"

As far as we know, there had been no safety violations at all.
Just some old man sticking his nose where is doesn't belong.

Well that is your opinion!

It sounds like this is an unsupervised range, which usually means anyone seeing unsafe acts becomes a RO.

Even the Mod here sees that Jim needed to cool down.

Lets just let Jim go on about his business and continue to fool around with his weapons during a cold range period and someone gets shot or hurt, range shut down, Jims charged with whatever, sounds like a cool way to handle things. Ya right!!!

Looks like very few here never shot at an NRA controled range.

I removed an ear plug so I could hear what was going and the guy screamed you blankety-blank get your #$%%^& hand off that gun! Don't you know the *&^%%$# rules!?!?!?!

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I confess that I do tend to lose respect from the get-go for folks who feel it absolutely essential to use profanity to get their point across.
Why some folk want to sound like they've just sucked a sewer pipe is beyond me.

Lets just let Jim go on about his business and continue to fool around with his weapons during a cold range period and someone gets shot or hurt, range shut down, Jims charged with whatever, sounds like a cool way to handle things. Ya right!!!

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Nowhere in this thread did the original poster ever state that he witnessed "Jim" do anything that was a safety violation.
He never said that "Jim" was "fooling around with his weapons during a cold range period.

Don't read more in to the thread than what was actually typed.

How did Joe know that Jim's daughter didn't have her permit?

I mean that one can have a permit, but still take lessons to improve their skills.

Nowhere in this thread did the original poster ever state that he witnessed "Jim" do anything that was a safety violation.
He never said that "Jim" was "fooling around with his weapons during a cold range period.

Don't read more in to the thread than what was actually typed.

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Soo Jim is yelling, OK, I GET IT, just to hear himself yell.

"Joe" most likely reminded him about the "step away" rule.

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The step away rule is to keep folks from "fooling around". Didn't read anything into it.

However, I fended him off by assertively stating that it was a pistol cartridge and perfectly acceptable for that venue. I didn't go "ape crazy" on the guy like the other fellow did, and in fact he let me shoot his guns and gave me some info about cheap .38 spl ammo he buys online.

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So, did "Joe" ask to see your permit before letting you shoot his guns?

How did Joe know that Jim's daughter didn't have her permit?
I mean that one can have a permit, but still take lessons to improve their skills.

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Exactly what I was thinking. I wouldn't have cussed the old man out, but I'd have darned sure told him that it was time for him to be moving on and worry about himself and let me worry about myself and daughter.....

Lots of assumptions here...

Always love it when folks decide to add facts to what the OP posts. Two guys both wrong, that's about it

I am a firm believer of minding ones own business. I personally have had only TWO bad experiences at my private club.

In one I remained calm and bit my lip. I was in the right.

On the other I told the guy to go &%*# himself. I was in the right. He was rude and trying to pull the age card. What can I say, I was young (at the time) and full of piss and vinegar.

Best to get along with everyone. If things get real heated, best just to leave.

"Joe" has quite an effective interrogation technique, doesn't he?

1) Engage mark in casual conversation.
2) Jump on all possible violations mentioned during the "casual conversation".

Makes me think of the advice to not talk to "Officer Friendly" during a traffic stop.

DD

Joe needs to mind his own business.

Soo Jim is yelling, OK, I GET IT, just to hear himself yell.

Quote:
"Joe" most likely reminded him about the "step away" rule.
The step away rule is to keep folks from "fooling around". Didn't read anything into it.

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Think about what you read.

The original poster states that he heard Jim say "OK, I GET IT".
The original poster ASSUMES that Joe is merely reminding Jim of the "step away" rule.
But the original poster does not really know what Joe was saying to Jim.
The original poster never said that he ever saw Jim "fooling around" with his weapon while the range was cold.

Joe sounds like he is just an old busy-body trying to get in to everyone business and be a self appointed range officer.
Shooting is better off without folks like that.

The ranges "and thats not singular" that I go to always has someone as the self appointed RO because none of them have a RO on duty. Its everyones place to see that safety rules are obeyed, whether they are old, young or anywhere in the middle, if this construes them to be a busy-body then so be it. If a class act like Jim doesn't like it he knows where the gate is and at lest hope it doesn't hit him to hard on the way out.