No self defense in Canada?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Old Guy

Member
Joined
May 28, 2005
Messages
980
Location
Florida
In working for a defense Lawyer as an Expert Witness (I know all the sayings about Expert Witnesses) the Lawyer I was employed by introduced me as a Small Arms Expert (his words not mine) the media had me as a Small firearms Expert!

But what won the day for the accused, the Crown (DA in Canada) the charge was First Degree Murder, witnesses described the shooting of a gang leader as a shot to the body (the accused took the .380 pistol from the belt of one of the gang, same person lifted his shirt to show the targeted accused, the .380 pistol tucked in his pants, mistake! he was shot with his own gun) then "Toughie" the gang leader, who was trying to get a revolver out of his jacket pocket, hammer stuck in the lining, was shot once in the body, and went down, a step to the right, then a head shot! RIP Gang leader.

But what won the day for the accused,
you thought I had forgotten? The assistant crown said that it was premeditated! Because he had time to calm down in that step to the right!

I asked the Judge if I could ask the Jury a question, this was somewhat irregular, from a witness, and vigorously argued by the Crown.
The Judge said it is his Court, and he can stop the proceedings instantly, if the question was improper.

'"This is a question on any one on the Jury's personal knowledge of increased levels of blood pressure based on a car accident" (a look at the Judge?)
"Proceed" He said (Judges get nosy as well don't you know)
"Raise your hand if you have been in a bad car accident" four raised their hands; I asked each one in turn how long before their blood pressure/adrenalin fueled heart rate returned to normal? The answers were not in minutes or seconds but in hours.
The Crowns whole case was based on the premise that it was cold blooded killing. And none of their “Experts” knew anything of fight or flight, only the FIREARM! Owoops!
The accused walked out of Court! Not guilty of all charges. The largest self defense case in Canadian history, and self defense is alive and well North of the Border.
 
Good call.

I usually puke for days after a event or incident. I can be cold and calculating during the problem but the moment's it is over, I need a smoke and a quiet place with big bucket or trash bag.
 
...self defense is alive and well North of the Border...

Well sure...as long as your able to disarm your assailant and use his weapon against him.

God forbid you should have your own, though.
 
Is it unusual to completely block out a really bad situation after it's all over?

Of the six life-or-death, face-to-face situations that I've been in (and know about), I only remember two. And those two were the ones that involved firearms, not hands, knives, and (in one case) a golf club.

I've pieced together what happened in the other four situations from what other folks said, hospital and police reports, and physical evidence. I'm just glad that I've never had to defend myself in court over these actions.

I'd be a really terrible witness.
 
Well sure...as long as your able to disarm your assailant and use his weapon against him.

God forbid you should have your own, though.

Exactly. If there was even a question in this case of pre-meditated murder then just imagine if someone actualy went and retrieved thier own firearm.
Home invasion? If you had time to go retrieve your gun then you had time to sneak out the back window! Nevermind if you had time to retrieve your legaly stored, unloaded, and locked up gun, and then load it beforehand. Clearly that time could have been better spent retreating in the opposite direction. The decision to perform all those tasks instead shows a clear pre-meditated intent to murder the poor home invader rather than attempt to flee.


Illegaly carrying a gun? (Because you could not legaly be carrying one.) Well clearly that would demonstrate pre-meditation to murder. No civilized person would be walking around with a gun unless they were planning some mischief. So clearly you brought a gun to do harm to the person who ended up attacking you (who you defended yourself against.)




Ususaly you are not going to be given a weapon by the bad guy.
I guess in those rare cases in Canada where the bad guy provides you with a weapon, and after a lengthy and expensive trial you can still retain your freedom and begin to work towards paying off those tens of thousands of dollars (if not in the six figures like some murder trials) in court costs.
But maybe not, if the bad guy had not had another gun he was going for and merely physicly attacked in an attemp to take the firearm back when shot it could have still gone against the accused. Fortunately it was still a firearm vs firearm conflict which helped him in court.

What a victory. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah. Canada has to start somewhere.... but there has to be a mindset change first that one can defend himself/herself without the world collapsing. When Zoogster said "civilized" he put it all into perspective.

A society that looks at armed self-defense as uncivilized is perhaps the most uncivlized culture of all.
 
Improper storage

Improper storage, is a charge laid when you are gone from your home, you are only "Storing" when you have left.

The law (as we all know) is strange any where, in Canada you can only discharge a firearm in certain places, but till you fire a gun, that offense is null and void, so having a loaded gun in your house, whilst you are in it?

Not storing! Not firing! So Canada has loop holes, but when Cops can not carry off duty? Not much hope yes?

The first improper storage charge laid was in a small town in Quebec, girl on farm had to go to the Pharmacy, asked her Brother to take his rifle out of the pick up, in the end it was nearly closing time, and he had not done it, she took off.

Police saw gun, so they charged her with improper storage, the Judge said "Not guilty" he said how could she store something that was not hers in the first place? There was maybe some offense, but it was not to do with storage!
 
Good for you. I think the defendent got lucky though. Another jury could well have found him guilty because of the "coup de grace" shot to the head!
 
Having lived in Canada in my younger days, and still having a lot of family there, I can say that Canada is the perfect example of what can happen to a wonderful place when you let the liberals run it. California is right behind Canada.
 
If at home using?

So if you are at home or say hotel room, you could be using? It makes sense that you could have a handgun, rifle, or shotgun out of a safe/case and be able to have it loaded beside your bed when it is in your possession.....and then when away from it...such as leave the house to store it in a safe...is this the way it is in Canada? I don't live up there....just curious...such as if I took a firearm across the border for a legal reason and had it loaded in my hotel room while I was in the hotel room for protection....and of course case/unload while not in the hotel room (not that i expect my hotel room to be searched by cops). Thanks
 
Good call.

I usually puke for days after a event or incident. I can be cold and calculating during the problem but the moment's it is over, I need a smoke and a quiet place with big bucket or trash bag.
That's the way it is with me also. The first thing that happens, after it's over, is my legs begin to shake and sometimes it works its way up my body and to my head. I keep taking deep breaths, being careful to not hyperventilate. Then I think of a nice mountain meadow with a stream running through it. Depending on the event I'll settle down after a couple of hours or maybe 24.
 
Buck Snort,

Way back in 1968, having just moved to Canada from Australia, I had cause to return to the UK, a death in the Family.

Going out for an Indian meal on a Friday night, my Wife, her Sister, and her Husband, me driving the rented stick shift VW.

My Wife (EX for many years) started a conversation, that 4 local yobos took as a chance to exit, with out paying! The fight that ensued, left the locals damaged, the Police who responded to my phone call, two panda cars in 3 minutes! told me of their visit (the yobos) to the hospital, 500m away! One of the Bobbies fielded a radio call, outside the Moon Glow.

"Those 4 ruffians, as you described them, are in the Em-erg, two broken noses, one broken arm, 3 broken ribs, same individual, and various cuts and contusions" in looking at me in collar and tie, sports coat, and gleaming black shoes (Steel toe caps, me ex bouncer) asked me if I was the attacker or atackee!

My 6'3" brother in law (a dedicated coward) sat this fight out.

Buck, the point? After the Constable had escorted us to our car, and pointed out the fact that "eight miles that way, is Liverpool, lots of Indian Restaurants there" I drove off.

Once I got into top gear, my right leg went nuts! was not usable to change gears for a while! Given $100.00 I could not have spit, looking at the three white faces of my shell shocked companions just caused me to grin like a maniac!

Did you not know Scousers were nuts? And loved to fight, mind you at 33 YOA I was in good fettle. The alternative would have me left with teeth kicked out, and seriously injured.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when our local hero's told the tale of the well dressed man, wearing glasses, who hammered the four of them!

Or the 6 big guys with no warning, attacked them in a dark ally?
 
Ahh Canada and guns. I drove into Canada one time at Sue St. Marie. They went through everything in my trunk, on me, inside my car for at least an hour, all the time questioning me about guns. I had no idea what sparked their curiosity about me and guns until they said I could go and I shut my trunk and saw my Texas license plate. Ahh they thought I was a buckaroo.
 
okay, so my fiance is looking at going to grad school in Nova Scotia. I was okay enough with not being able to bring my own gun, but are you saying I can't even buy a gun or get a CCW permit once I live there?! What the crap is that?!
 
Critical J said:
okay, so my fiance is looking at going to grad school in Nova Scotia. I was okay enough with not being able to bring my own gun, but are you saying I can't even buy a gun or get a CCW permit once I live there?! What the crap is that?!
That's Canada.

From what I've read, a Canadian citizen needs to jump through a bunch of hoops to be allowed to buy a handgun. I don't know what the rules might be for resident aliens, but you'd probably want to check into that.

And also from what I've read, it's pretty near impossible in Canada for an ordinary person to get a license to carry a handgun.
 
"The largest self defense case in Canadian history, and self defense is alive and well North of the Border."

Things go case by case for things like that here, it's kind of a luck of the draw thing. One guy shot someone out of self defense for a robbery at his store, he won. But then he got robbed again some time later and the second time the criminals killed him. The police basically said it was his own fault because his past actions showed that they were going to die if they didn't kill him and I think they got a reduced sentence.

"And also from what I've read, it's pretty near impossible in Canada for an ordinary person to get a license to carry a handgun."

No you definitely won't be getting a CCW permit up here, unless you're rich, a politician or a security guard. There has to be complete proof of an immediate danger to your life.

"From what I've read, a Canadian citizen needs to jump through a bunch of hoops to be allowed to buy a handgun.."

First you need to take a 2 tests, one for your gun possession license, the second for restricted weapons. You also need to get a one time authorization to transport from the govt. to get a pistol back to your house each time you buy a pistol. Then you need to get another document to transport the pistol only back and forth to a authorized gun range thats valid for a few years. And you also need to keep all your registration certificates and take the one you need to the range with you when you go. Also the pistol needs to have a trigger lock on it as well as the case be locked when stored or transported. Yes it is quite irritating, that's why most people don't have legal guns in this country.
 
You also can only use self defense if you have equal or lesser force, meaning you can't shoot someone if they only have a knife, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top