Interesting facts on African hunting, just what PETA doesn't want you to hear!

At least some countries over there are embracing the hunters. This will provide seed stock as others come around and repopulate.

Its not only animal rights groups...

There are just too many people...period.

I get jumped on every time I say that, but its the truth...all over the world, too many people.

If that was not the case, we wouldn't be seeing our wildlife go extinct right before our eyes.

Humans think this world is solely ours...it is not, it was meant to be shared for all creatures great and small.

And no...I'm not a tree hugging PETA member, I'm a hunter and a shooter, but I do understand the concept of conservation.

The wildlife would be fine...if it had room to live, but we people want it all for ourselves, we are a selfish and greedy lot.

If there is land that is not fit for farming or some other profitable use...we are fine with it being a park or game preserve...until they find oil there, then its "to hell with the wildlife".

We enjoy hunting, but we have no foresight past the almighty dollar.

It makes me sick the way man has treated this world and its wildlife.

And please...don't start labeling me with any sort of political parties, they are all FULL OF IT. I'm just a guy with his eyes open...

Thats true H&Hhunter...men like you and I (and I'm sure there are others here too)

But we are also an endangered species my friend. (people who appreciate the land and its inhabitants)

My point is that things are waaaay out of balance...too many people, not enough room.

A little clarification is in order...

We enjoy hunting, but we have no foresight past the almighty dollar.

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There are hunters...and there are people who hunt.

Not everybody who goes out in the woods with a gun is a hunter...not by my definition of the term.

At least in the US we hunters have created a system whereby almost all game species are on the increase.

Nobody will find me arguing that there aren't too many people, though. The upside is that they tend to wad up in giant cities. The downside is that huntin' country gets turned into farmland.

Except, generally, deserts. Me, I like the desert. Bureaucrats don't. Works for me.

As a Hunter, I can honestly say that killing animals is less that 10% of what I do regarding wildlife.

The other 90% is conservation plain and simple. I have donated countless hours raising money and donating my time to protect species right here in California. It is sad that all these people jump on the bandwagon and single out us "Evil Hunters" as the Sole problem of all animal related woes. We are passing the torch to our children NOT THEM, and it further infuriates me that they would spend the time slandering our rights that would be better spent with fixing a problem. Aldo Leapold saw this one coming...

from the University of California, Berkeley

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I quit reading right there...

Some mountainous regions, the SE swamps, some desert land. Parts of AK I guess are the last true wild. Some of Canada.
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You're in error , wilderness still exists in the lower 48 , parts of Texas , Wyoming ,Idaho ,Montana , Utah , some parts of Colorado , New Mexico and Arizona , Oregon and Washinton , along with California , yes you heard me right *California* , I can walk out my back door with a pack ,sidearm and rifle and disappear for a week and see nary a soul but see scads of deer ,hogs and coyotes , a few black bear , cut mountain lion sign and still see bald eagles a few otters in some of the rivers etc.

Wilderness is still there if you want to take to trouble to find it and the energy to get there. Argue the point if you wish , but go out and see for yourself.

Are there to damn many people in many areas? Most assuredly there are , but mankind for the greater part is a herd beast that huddles together in the vast urban centers , they've got to have their 32 inch television , football on Sundays ,golf courses , new Xbox for the kids ,zoom zoom freeways to ease access from here to there and their Frappacino at Starbucks in the morning.

BAH humbug to all that , I'd rather sit on my porch and listen to the coyotes up the ridge of an evening and the hogs grunting and squealing a draw or two over. Sometimes I'll even go skulk about to see what they're up to.

It's still there , go look and for some of us still an integral part of our existence.

Except, generally, deserts. Me, I like the desert. Bureaucrats don't. Works for me.
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Big Bend country forever 'eh.

Yep. True uncharted wilderness areas even in Southern California. Last Sept into October we had fires here in Yucaipa that pulled fire resources away from all the Western States that were on fire. Over 50% of the available Air Resources were here to prevent the fires from getting into the San Gorgonio Wilderness Area. I was told by my neighbor (Battalion Chief for Cal Fire) that they were doing everything in their power to prevent that region from catching on fire. Said it could burn for years uncontrolled because of the rugged terrain and dense foliage that has never caught fire.

It's common in this Town to see Mtn. Lions, Black Bears, Deer, Bobcats etc... that come down from the Oak Glen part of town.

Those of you in Socal that are not aware of Oak Glen, do a google of Oak Glen then pm me and we will get together in late Sept./Oct. I'll treat you to an Apple Wood Smoked Pulled Pork Sandwich At Los Rios Ranch.

And I'll stop here, don't want to hijack the thread.

Isn't it odd that everytime some activists launches a cause to save something, anything, pick a topic, they usually create such a mess, nothing on earth can fix it. Happy that they did, "something" and oblivious to the damaged caused, they find yet another windmill to tilt. These types are not concerned with, or detered by, the facts. As long as they make the social page with the headline, movie star, rock star, political activist, does it again, they will do it again. And all we can do is shake our heads, and wait for their next great cause. Trying to correct mother nature, and change human nature, has been a pointless but highly political way to justify, their train wreck lifestyles, that take up the other half of the social pages.

I was in SoCal Last year for 19 weeks. Right outside of Moreno Valley(up where the big M is on the Mtn)I saw deer (track) being followed by a mtn lion (track). It is interesting how in the desert it will be wilderness then all of a sudden city.
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The sad thing regarding all this fine info is that it is nothing but preaching to the choir! Those that need to see/read it are not here to do such, even if it would have an effect. I'm a life member of NRA (40+ years) and support the them fully, but 98% of their propaganda is in hunting/shooting magazines read by people that already subscribe to their ideas, so no net gain. Who gets info from the RMEF other than members? Does DU have any real contact with folks not already interested and supportive of waterfowl, and realisticly, waterfowl hunting?? And the NRA puts an ad there--for hunters, i.e. gun owners, to read. All preaching to the choir.
Now, how do we do it differently? Saddly, I admit that I'm not real sure, but I know that all of those reading this didn't gain anything for the issue. We already knew it. Someone wiser than I needs to figure out how to address the enemy, not just visit among friends.

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This is a great thread, so many good points and perspectives.

I used to be anti, now I'm not. It's just not a supportable position with anything other than emotion. Bottom line is, we don't live in a "natural" world anymore, and managed hunting has a practical purpose in the world we do live in. That's the practical side of it. The intangible side of it is that some of us like to hunt...and the reasons we like to hunt are varied and personal. Having been a non-hunting outdoorsman, I can tell you that I've never felt a deeper connection with--or appreciation for--Nature than when I'm hunting. When I hike and camp I'm an observer, when I hunt I'm a participant. It's a big difference to me. That said, others hunt for different reasons, some that I might pass judgement on. But at the end of the day, we are both expressing our predatory nature, so my judgements don't mean squat to anyone but me. Likewise, I don't begrudge anti's their viewpoint, in fact, while I don't agree with it, I understand it. To each his own, just don't encroach on my rights in your misguided attempt to add meaning to your life.

But regarding preaching to the choir, sure, this thread makes a difference. It gives us a little more education as to what is going on and what to do about it, and might even motivate some of us to do something concrete. But Moosehunt is right, specifically regarding his NRA example. To a large degree the organizations that represent our position are preaching to the choir. But maybe that's the practical reality of funding a congressional lobbying effort -- you have to preach to the people who will donate to keep that lobbying effort rolling.

I think (which is not my specialty) that the biggest difference we can make is on an individual level versus just sending a check to a non-profit (which still needs to be done). Instead of engaging in arguments with radicalized antis (which is fruitless), take time to educate your friends and family who are on the fence. I've got a whole slew of people in my circle who used to be "soft antis" but now want to know when the next delivery of hormone-free, free-range elk meat is going to arrive.

Teaching people how to shoot and hunt, who would otherwise not get the chance, will have a multiplication effect over time. Imagine the power if everyone on this board took on making a marksman out of two disadvantaged kids a year. I've been really impressed with the program at Appleseed Project (www.appleseed.org) and have sent four people to them this year. One of whom was an adult who had never fired a gun before (she promptly went out and bought a pistol and signed up for another Appleseed). I like to imagine that now her kids will now grow up as shooters, or at least not afraid of shooters.

OK, you guys have me motivated, I'm going to look to see if there is an organization that specifically addresses disadvantaged and inner-city youth that promotes shooting and hunting. I know there are several organizations like NSSF's First Shots, but seems to me they tend to operate in areas where shooting and hunting already have a degree of acceptance (i.e. mainly cater to blue collar/middle-class caucasians).

The fight for our hunting and 2nd Amendment rights are one and the same, and it's a fight against ignorance.

H&Hhunter said:

Google

CAMPFIRE..

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What for? the business group or campfireusa.org? or what? youre print would be much more usefull with more direction. Posts like this also run the risk of coming across as smarta**. Not trying to be rude, seriously, but I googled CAMPFIRE and found it to be of no use. Maybe im missing something obvious, if so please redirect me!

As for the OP issue, and somewhat directed at post # 26, I think ivory trade should be reopened but of course needs to be regulated. Unregulated hunting has the potential to wipe out a species. Not because hunters are trying to do that or don't care (though that description might fit poachers), but because there are so darn many of us that without organization we could screw up by accident. Responsible hunters don't want to wipe out a species, we realize the importance of the regulated hunting. The fact is, that in this world, any species with powerful build (big cats, bears, elephants), have the potential to become a dominant species unless we keep them in check using our technology, which in my opinion gives us a right to be the dominant species, even though we are not as "built" as these other creatures. That said, of course it doesn't give a right to be irresponsible with the way we dominate other creatures, and we, responsible hunters, know and understand that. I'm sorry if this comes across as a agressive or upset, but I can't help but be irritated when someone, ( referring to lead counsel ), says something that likens sport hunters to irresponsible idiots out for a joy shoot of other creatures. Check your facts before you post an uninformed opinion, unless you can't learn how to form an informed one by researching.

I have occasionally wondered about the practice of culling. On the surface, it doesn't make sense to me to pay professionals to do something that amateurs would gladly pay to do. It seems akin to hiring people to take food off the shelves of the supermarket rather than let customers pay to take the same food home with them. What am I missing?