Basic first aid

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gun guy

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In the course of writing my book the topic of first aid came up. You have decided to aquire a CCW. You have spent good money on a weapon, proper training, accessorys and other items. But, what if, you actually are involved in a shooting situation? The chance of injury, once the lead starts flying is very high. Do you know how to properly care, for a wound, till EMS arrives ? Even if you do, should the issue go to court, and odds are it will, can you prove you have any training at all? In good faith, you apply a pressure dressing to a bystander that was wounded, the good samaritan law only goes so far. A basic first aid card, from your local red cross, might be well worth the minor fee and time to attend. Besides, it never hurts to learn, or brush up on first aid skills, and have a basic kit, that includes a military style bandage handy for any emergency. Just a thought. Have a great day.
 
I am not just a CCW carrying person. I am also an EMT Intermediate and I can start IV's and give certain drugs. After I shot the BG I would fix him up once everything is secure...:p

joe
 
I don't have a basic CPR card. However, I do want to take the Tactical Medic Course that Viking TActics offers. I don't know if it is open to civilians, I'll write or call and find out when I've got a little more money saved up.

VTAC Tactical Medic Course (Three Day)
The VTAC Tactical Medic Courses provides the SWAT or Patrol Officer the tools to provide First Aid to fellow officers or wounded civilians as well as teaches the needed emergency extraction techniques, field expedient, and basic to advanced Emergency Trauma on the Street and during time critical multidimensional events. Crisis site treatment can be very dynamic and offer many difficult challenges beyond life-saving care such as, engaging hostile threats, bldg collapse, environment/weather, and special methods of extraction. The course teaches planning considerations to cover the bases of contingency and emergency plans in order to insure that a fallen comrade will get out at any cost.
 
Everyone should know basic first aid and CPR whether they carry or not, whether they are pro or anti gun.
 
The question is, do you know how to properly secure a prisoner prior to offering them aid? If you shoot a guy, and you're not sure if he's down or not, are you going to approach him and get close enough for him to hurt you? The vast majority of the time, I'm sticking with: shoot until you run out of ammo, the target disappears from view, or the target is no longer a threat, whichever comes first. In any of these three situations, the need to render aid is unlikely. If possible, call the police immediately. If not possible, tell the nearest bystander to call the police immediately. Sit low and cover the target. Do not lower or holster your gun unless you are certain there is no more threat. When the police arrive, do exactly what they tell you. (Which will be; drop the gun, face down on the ground, hands behind your head.)
 
Bystanders, I'd help out with due to a sense of moral obligation. Creds are red cross and military. With the the military training, there are certain tasks I'm trained in which I couldn't do (not covered by good samaritan according to my instructor). These would include use of any quik-clot, applying a tourniquet, or chest-needle decompression to treat tension pneumothorax.

When it comes to the bad guy, criminals are often involved in drugs. Those involved in drugs are often recreational users. Recreational users sometimes contract Hep A/B or HIV. Since I don't know the persons lifestyle choices and they may still constitute a kinetic threat, and I can't simultaneously cover that person and treat them medically.
 
Check your states Good Sam laws or lack thereof. In my state as long as your intent is good and you don't do something stupid, your good to go.

Agree completely that all should know basic first aid and CPR.

South Carolina Good Samaritan Law

SECTION 15-1-310.

Liability for emergency care rendered at scene of accident.

Any person, who in good faith gratuitously renders emergency care at the scene of an accident or emergency to the victim thereof, shall not be liable for any civil damages for any personal injury as a result of any act or omission by such person in rendering the emergency care or as a result of any act or failure to act to provide or arrange for further medical treatment or care for the injured person, except acts or omissions amounting to gross negligence or wilful or wanton misconduct.
 
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Basic first aid is important to have a working understanding of how the body works and what is needed to save a life, from clearing airways of choking people, to saving a drowning victim, and saving someone with serious bleeding injuries.

Basic first aid for GSWs -

Stop bleeding by putting direct pressure on the wound.
Tie off limbs above the wound to stop bleeding using a makeshift tornequet, which could be a belt, rope, length of cloth, etc.
Call 911. In most areas help will be there in minutes with reports of 'gunshot wound.'

If you're in the military, as I am, you carry a small first aid kit that has ingrediants for a variety of situations, from blocked throat airways, to serious bleeding wounds, sucking chest wounds, etc. and get training on using them.
 
As stated, everyone ought to know basic first aid and CPR for adults, children and infants regardless of whether or not they decide to carry a CCW. You're much more likely to need those skills at some point in your life than you will need your CCW.

Having said that, I have basic first aid kits with trauma dressings and CPR shields in my vehicles, along with latex gloves. If I can safely assist someone with an injury, whether from a car wreck, a shooting, or whatever, I will.

I have had EMT certifications, CPR certs, first aid certs, etc. at various times in my life since the age of 16. I'd help someone with or without those, though, because it's just in my nature.

One thing to be aware of is that certain areas may hold you to a higher standard of care than a layman if you have had advanced training. That may not give you a duty to act and assist someone if you're not on duty in a professional capacity, but once you start care that higher standard may, and I stress may, apply.
 
I think this is important to know not just in the context of a defensive encounter, but simply as a shooter who spends a lot of hours on the range every year. I figure that, due to the frequency with which I'm on ranges, at matches, and in classes, I'm eventually going to be present when someone has an ND with consequences. I want to know what to do when that happens.

Happily, there are more and more places offering this kind of instruction these days. I can recommend both the DTI/Doc Gunn 'Tactical Treatment of Gunshot Wounds' class and the Spartan Tactical Training 'Emergency First Aid for Trauma Injuries' class.
 
An excellent observation, my original thought was in giving aid to myself, or an injured bystander, as to the BG that indeed raises an entirely new topic. You just shot him, odds are you are off his xmas card list already. Getting close, to try to help him could indeed be a fatal mistake. That would be a real judgement call, based on the circumstances, and your personal experience level. If you have LEO experience, and handcuffs, and are well versed with take down proceedures, your call, otherwise, probably not the best move on the chessboard. Most communty colleges offer an emt basic class at a minimal cost that takes about 6 weeks to complete. It is far more comprehensive than the red cross classes and covers more than just shootings. You never know when you could be the first to arrive at a mva, or some other accident. Sometimes, a helping hand, makes the world a better place. And I think we all want that.
 
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A great way to learn many first aid skills is to sign up for a class in wilderness first responder training and/or water rescue, especially for hunters and fishermen.

When I took the class in East Tennessee, it was essentially a weekend camping trip just north of the Smokies with about 10 hours of instruction during the day... all for about $150. I learned more about gunshot wounds, spinal injuries, drowning, collapsed lungs, seizures, concussions, improvised medicine, infections, CPR, and a whole host of emergencies that are most likely to occur in places where the paramedics are not 5 minutes away. I think all of the rhetoric that is used to justify defensive training can also be applied in support of first aid training- you can't be sure that the police will be there when a criminal attack occurs, so why expect that paramedics will be there for a medical emergency.
 
The issue isn't the good sam law, violation of a scope of practice, in otherwords, going beyond what you are licensed to do, is a misconduct/negligence, and yes people have been sued, the one I remember was in NC a SF medic who got sued by a chick he saved in a restaurant when she went into anaphalactic shock. He trached her to save her life, don't think she won, but he still ended up on trial.

Now do you really think the criminal that you helped into prison for a extend stay has anything better to do than sue you for permanently scaring him etc.

Now the above is for medical professionals, ie. EMT, RN's MD's etc.
BUT, here are 3 thing to consider

1. your safety
is the BG down, I mean you are safe around him as he no longer poses any danger, (BTW if he really is, EMS had better be really fast, or you skilled because the BG is most likely in a very bad way)

But it goes beyond that, is the scene safe, are his buddies gone, as soon as you lower you gun, are you going to be attacked, are you in danger of environmental stuff, standing in a street, it goes on, but the base question is, can you aid the BG safely?

2.
Legal, basic first aid is covered by good sam, however you end up the the BG claiming in court that somebody else was trying to rob, hurt, kill you, and he was just an innocent bystander, and you know that, why else would you have rendered medical aid after accidentally shot him

Then you have his family suing you for saving him, or if he dies, for killing him, and it might possibly be outside of castle law protections, since he died under your medical care....

3.
it's an equipment issue,
do you have BSI
what are you carrying to stop bleeding, what do you have for thoracic trauma, the list goes on.
and the BSI is a really big one, cause DOT can and does fine EMT $250,000 for touching a patient without gloves, and do you really want to bring a druggies Hebbie Geebies home to the wife and kids, hep C is nasty, AIDs suck, but so does TB and many many more.
 
OK, so I completely agree that medical knowledge and first aid is great, but I question the laying of hands on somebody I just shot, I was a medic in the army for 7 years, I told my guys that anybody I ended up shooting they treated (they were all combat lifesaver qualified) because if I put holes in a BG I meant for they to stay that way, as a medic should be protected and not have to shoot.

So I believe in having the training, many places have a volunteer fire departments that use EMTs.

But I question rendering aid to a bg, or even at shooting I'm involved in, quite frankly I don't think I would be in the frame of mind.
 
Let's see now. If I have to shoot a criminal who is trying to kill me, and if he isn't dead, and I then administer a bunch of First Aid to him... does that make me a "Compassionate Conservative?" :rolleyes:

Tell you what, boys and girls, if I am forced to shoot a criminal who is trying to kill me or a family member, I am not going to be concerned that I should afterward rush to him and start plastering him with Band Aids. It is his problem he attacked me or my family: not mine.

L.W.
 
I'm highly trained in first aid but trying to help someone who forces me to shoot them isn't something I anticipate being a viable option. -----
 
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Our club had EMT’s come in and instruct all members in a class a few years ago. I have always had basic first aid kits in all of my vehicles because of the environments that I work in. The one thing I added to all of them after the class was QuickClot hemostatic dressings. 911 sounds like a good idea for a BG IMO.
 
I don't think I have a legal obligation to render aid to the BG or bystanders. It's an act that can have bad consequences.

Not rendering aid can have pretty bad consequences, too. Folks who might have lived might die. I'll err on the side of compassion.
 
I have a field bag that has everything I have in the back of my bus on shift with me...well almost. I dont have needles and IV bags or drugs. if the person is no longer a threat I would aid them the best I could...I will add some restraints to the list of things to get for it.

Also...the good Samaritan law is different for different people. What you can do is different than what i can do. If I provide negligent care whether I am off duty or on duty I am legally responsible. Once I start care for a person I have to continue it till I pass that person off to equally trained or higher trained persons.

Joe
 
If I have to shoot someone, that area just became a crime scene. I will not touch that person or even get near with the exception of securing their weapon, ie kick it away. I would call 911 and most likely would be on the phone until the 1st responder got there anyway. Now if that person asked me to help I would.

Shawn
 
I'm certified in CPR (adults, children, infants), AED, basic first aid, and wilderness first aid. Shooting's just one of the skills I try to build to be a well-rounded guy.

I figure I'm a lot more likely to have to use first aid on sports injuries than on gunshot wounds...
 
An EMT-I or an EMT-P can start an IV if a Physician authorizes it you can not just decide that a patient needs IV therapy and go for it. That's called practicing medicine w/out a license

Unless you are a healthcare provider in a clinical setting (IOW you are on the clock at work) you do not have a legal duty to respond anywhere in the United States

Tie off limbs above the wound to stop bleeding using a makeshift tornequet, which could be a belt, rope, length of cloth, etc.

You might want to stick to practicing Law there pardner. A tourniquet is used to stop arterial bleeding when all other means have failed I'm talking traumatic amputation.

Above all protect yourself do not approach or touch a patient you don't know unless you have some type of PPE and treat all bodily fluids as contaminated.

And if you don't know what you're doing, don't
 
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